Hat Sizes Vary From Brand to Brand?

[sola fide]

I am perplexed by hat sizing.
-My first and favorite hat is an old Borsalino homburg size 4 1/2 which fits snug if not a tad tight.
-2nd hat was a Stetson Royal size 7 (looked to be a more modern version a modern logo) which felt a bit loose
-3rd hat was a Stetson 25 Open Road size 6 3/4 (impossible to fit)
-4th hat was Stetson 25 6 7/8 (too small but perfect for my wife)
-5th hat was a Resistol San Antonio (fits pretty good, but I like a little snugger)
-6th hat Stetson Open Road 25 (too loose, might have been stretched, but not sure)
-7th hat Dobbs Champion size 7 (too small)
What the heck?
The Borsalino at 4 1/2 fits best, but a little snug
I measured my head, with help from my son, and it was around 22 3/8 which is close to if not 57cm
I tired of buying hats that do not fit now that I know my size
I favor the vintage style wide brim fedoras and $$$ are a factor.
How can I get the correct size hat without buying new from a store or paying 100s of $$$, is it possible?
Thanks
Mike

 

[DJH]

Such is life, Solo - especially with vintage hats, sizes are going to be all over the place.

Even if two hats marked as the same size, left the factory with identical dimensions (unlikely) after 50 or 60 years they won't be the same.

The leather shrinks when it gets hot and sweaty, it might have been stretched by a former owner, even how the hat is creased makes a difference to the fit.

Even custom hats have a tolerance - my VS hats from Art Fawcett are very close, but there is a noticeable (albeit small) variation in how they fit me.

You'll find a bunch of tips and tricks here at the Lounge to fine tune the fit of your hats. It's all part of the fun!

 

[viclip]

I am perplexed by hat sizing.
-My first and favorite hat is an old Borsalino homburg size 4 1/2 which fits snug if not a tad tight.
-2nd hat was a Stetson Royal size 7 (looked to be a more modern version a modern logo) which felt a bit loose
-3rd hat was a Stetson 25 Open Road size 6 3/4 (impossible to fit)
-4th hat was Stetson 25 6 7/8 (too small but perfect for my wife)
-5th hat was a Resistol San Antonio (fits pretty good, but I like a little snugger)
-6th hat Stetson Open Road 25 (too loose, might have been stretched, but not sure)
-7th hat Dobbs Champion size 7 (too small)
What the heck?
The Borsalino at 4 1/2 fits best, but a little snug
I measured my head, with help from my son, and it was around 22 3/8 which is close to if not 57cm
I tired of buying hats that do not fit now that I know my size
I favor the vintage style wide brim fedoras and $$$ are a factor.
How can I get the correct size hat without buying new from a store or paying 100s of $$$, is it possible?
Thanks
Mike

Hat sizes vary not only between different manufacturers, but even amongst hats of different lines produced by the same manufacturer.

Also leather sweat bands tend to shrink over time; & for all you know a hat may have been stretched by a previous owner one or more sizes up.

Bear in mind that there are different hat measurement systems. Many manufacturers have gone to centimeters but the American sizing remains very common today. The English sizing - which may have applied to former British colonies & dominions including Canada - is one American size larger i.e. 7-1/2 UK = 7-5/8 US.
Then there's the continental or French sizing, which I believe Borsalino used at one point, which is way way bigger. Conversion tables are available on-line.


The only way to be sure that a vintage hat will more or less fit is to have it actually measured circumferentially along the sweat band, or at least take its interior length + width in inches then divide by 2 to get a good approximation. It's always best to buy larger than smaller, since hats do shrink & anyways the sweat band can be padded with foam strips or similar.

When buying vintage hats on-line, there's something to be said for return privileges!

 

[Lotsahats]

I don't think there's as much variation here as it might appear:

Punti 4 1/2 is an American size 7, and that fits you snugly;
22 3/8 puts you right between an American 7 1/8 and 7 1/4;
57 puts you right at an American 7 1/8

Based on these comparisons, the only surprises here are the size 7s that were a little loose; as our colleagues note above, however, vintage hats shrink and expand based on the head that was in 'em the most. It can be frustrating to find the right fit, but they are out there.

A

 

[Mystic]

In my personal experience with vintage hats I have found certain Brands run a bit larger on a consistent bases.

Every Champ and Portis vintage I have bought fits big.

I wear a small size so it's possible that others have tried to make a smaller hat fit a bigger head.

However, it is very consistent that they have fit bigger than others Brands of the same size. [huh]

 

[fedoracentric]

I think you should measure your head again, too, just to be 100% sure you are 22-3/8 because that is a size 7-1/8 for sure.

Still, I wear a modern 7 on the large side and usually look for a 7-1/8 in anything made before the 1960s because of shrinkage. I've had a few 6-7/8 hats that fit me perfectly right out of the box. I've had size 7s that were too small. I've had 7-1/8s that are too large and 7-1/8 that fit like a glove.

Buying hats is a crap shoot new or old as far as size goes. That is why in the old days people tried hats on at a hat store until they found the right one. We don't often have that luxury buying through the mail, unfortunately.

You roll the dice and takes yer chances.

 

[Jedwbpm]

You have to remember that the blocks that these hats were made on are 75 to 100 years old. When they were made the idea of tolerance was a lot looser. Also the sewing in of the sweatband is done by hand and can cause a lot of variation.

Jeff