Hat prices hurting hat comeback?

[RBH]

David... you know you dont want to prove me wrong.
I am wrong plenty... but not this time!!!

 

[RBH]

- and a fine story it is, but we shouldn't forget, that 80-90 years ago, the fedora was (also) the hat of any bum. A fedora wasn't especially stylish before or during The Great Depression. In those days the hat (fedora or cap) was not a stylish fashion statement, but a necessity a man couldn't do without. Fedoras were worn by everybody from the dustbowl - over the steelworkers hanging over Manhatten's skyline - to the lawyer or businessman in the highest social circles. The higher the social status, the fewer fedoras - and the more homburgs, btw.

Most fedora wearers of the day didn't even own a suit or a tie, but wore the hat along with overalls and a blue or checkered lumberjack shirt. That sort of attires are just as much the fedora's natural habitat - though facts like this often seem forgotten on these pages. A lot of the "stylishness", nowadays associated with fedoras, is merely "post justification" ... or in some cases maybe even "wishful thinking"

You are so on the money Dane.
Here are a few of Disfarmer's photos.

the 1st is one of my favorites.

 

[TheDane]

Wonderful shots, Rusty! That first guy could be the husband to Dorothea Lange's famous "Migrant Mother". There's a galaxy between those pics and (most) modern, streamline, shell-like, Photoshoped portraits. The surface may not be rendered in a H*ll lot of pixels - but the depth is so enormous. Thanks for sharing

 

[fedoracentric]

A fedora wasn't especially stylish before or during The Great Depression.

I'd have to disagree with that entirely. Every single ad for every single fedora during those same eras are all selling them based on current "styles" and selling them telling buyers that they will be "stylish" and "in fashion."

Now, if you were trying to say many hat wearers weren't trying to be outside the fashion box by wearing a fedora, I'd agree with that. Nearly everyone wore a hat in those days. The outsider statement then would have been not wearing a hat at all, I suppose. Men weren't trying to be overly precious by wearing a fedora like many of the "irony hats" that kids wear today.

But to say men weren't trying to be stylish with their choice of hat, that is not at all true.

In fact, many men wore hats that suited them as part of their persona, their personal style and as a statement about who or what they were. Men who wore Homburgs into the 40s and 50s were telling the world they were serious businessmen. Men that wore Open Road style hats were often telling the world they were not farm hands, but were western men of means. Look at how Capone wore his hats, with that crooked "Hollywood brim" style. He was showing he was arrogant and forward. Etc., etc.

Just because hats were considered part of a man's general attire does not mean no one was trying to be stylish with them. In fact, that is how the market worked to change styles as the years went on. Short brim, wide brim, small ribbon, wide ribbon, all of these were fashion choices made to sell hats in "today's smart new style" as they often said.

Some men just wore a hat because it was what men did. They didn't pay much mind to styles. Others bought new hats with every new fashion season. Others picked a style they liked and stuck with it as much as possible over the years. The truth is, there are all sorts of motivations from societal to personal.

However, I do agree with you that fedora styles of all sorts were worn with all sorts of clothing. I do agree with you that despite what the mavens of etiquette out there say, hats were worn in whatever way the owner wanted to wear them. Despite what Jeeves said!

 

[TheDane]

I'd have to disagree with that entirely.

You're very welcome. During The Great Depression hat-sales were in recession. Very few people had the money to buy hats. Most hats sold were the very cheapest, but of course there will always be a small upperclass, advertisers can speak to. Poor people's wallets are usually deaf to advertising - but poor people's dreams are often very open to advertising. Advertising does not reflect reality - but a salesman's dream of the perfect reality.

Capone was probably as representative of "the American man of The Great Depression" as Lady Gagga is representative of "the modern American woman". Also it makes little sense to use the conduct of homburg-wearing "serious businessmen" as a rule for the average American's conduct. You are comparing oranges with apples.

I've noticed, that you mention youngsters of today's hats as "irony hats". Maybe you just don't understand the minds of the 30s, either(?)

 

[Mulceber]

During The Great Depression hat-sales were in recession.

I've got news for you...pretty much everything was in recession during the Great Depression. The fact that people didn't have money doesn't mean hats weren't stylish or that people didn't want to wear them. It means that they had no money and so when they would normally throw away their old hat and buy a new one, they decided to wear the old one ragged.

Also, as someone who is part of the 20-something generation, fedoracritic has not misunderstood the "irony hats."

 

[TheDane]

Also, as someone who is part of the 20-something generation, fedoracritic has not misunderstood the "irony hats."

The misunderstandings may be due to cultural differences across the pond. From hat conversations with my kids, grandkids, young colleagues and students I believe I'm pretty well informed on Danish youngster's thoughts on their headgear. I probably lack knowledge on American youth and your reasons to wear headgear.

I'm glad you have news for me, but I'm still waiting to hear them. I have never claimed, that people didn't like to wear fedoras. You are right, that "The fact that people didn't have money doesn't mean hats weren't stylish" - but the fact that people didn't have money doesn't mean hats were stylish, either.

I don't disagree, that a fedora can be a very stylish piece of attire, but a fedora is not per definition a stylish piece of attire. In my mind there's a giant difference, and in my mind, that fact is often overlooked. That's all

 

[fedoracentric]

Advertising does not reflect reality - but a salesman's dream of the perfect reality.

Capone was probably as representative of "the American man of The Great Depression" as Lady Gagga is representative of "the modern American woman". Also it makes little sense to use the conduct of homburg-wearing "serious businessmen" as a rule for the average American's conduct. You are comparing oranges with apples.

Your comments are utterly insensible to me, I hate to say.

First of all hats are not born on the earth fully formed. They are made by "salesmen" who are all pushing "the perfect reality." That is how fashion and the capitalist market works.

As it happens, even the poor want to be stylish and advertising drives that desire. In fact, here in America even the poor aspired to the upper class look. Advertising and "salesmen" brought that to them.

Maybe what we have here is a cultural clash. You are European, after all.

Then your comment that I was somehow comparing Al Capone and well-to-do businessmen to the average American... well, you need to read closer. No where did I equate them. I never said anything of the kind.

If you actually read what I wrote I was expounding on how some men (SOME MEN NOT ALL) use their headgear as an avenue to display their personal style. Then I gave examples. That is how a discussion works.

Further I made no "rule" for the average American's conduct. I gave a myriad of reasons why men wear hats. I never said there was a rule for anyone. Actually, my whole point was that there was no such rule back then. People wear hats and choose styles for their own reasons not because there is a rule.

As to your claim that hats were in recession... Mucleber is right. If that is your barometer, then nothing held any meaning during the whole era because everything was in recession. Hence the title "The Great Depression." It sortta goes with the name, don't you think?

Mucleber is also right about why some young men often wear those junk stingies in America today. They are being "ironic" or cool/quirky. They aren't really looking for a long-lasting, personal style and they will likely grow out of these crappy hats when they get into their later 20s. Whether they graduate to a real hat is doubtful, but possible. Some grow to really like the look and keep it, but many don't. But hat wearing is not the norm these days so the discussion I was giving from the old days does not exactly apply to the climate for hats today. Hats are out of the norm, now. Reasons for wearing certain kids of hats today are quite a bit more narrow than they used to be.

Anyway, it looks to me that you are nitpicking and arguing just to look like you were right and not in reply to anything I actually wrote. So, in the interests of the site, I won't reply to your arguments on this subject here any more as I think we just cannot effectively understand each other (or perhaps one of us is refusing to try).

Have a great Christmas holiday.

 

[TheDane]

Your comments are utterly insensible to me, I hate to say.

I hate to hear. That was absolutely not my intentions.

 

[The Fedorable]

Now, when you say "irony hats" you mean...

 

[DJH]

You are European, after all.

That explains it, then.

 

[dh66]

Now, when you say "irony hats" you mean...

The trend toward "ironic" dressing is sort of like wearing something that really you'd never really wear, like a Steve Urkel t-shirt, because your snarky hipster friends would think it's funny and see that you are making fun. The ironic part is that you are really wearing it though, and everyone else isn't in on the joke and just thinks you look like a douche.

Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk 2

 

[T Jones]

You are so on the money Dane.
Here are a few of Disfarmer's photos.

the 1st is one of my favorites.

Very nice pics! I'm at an age where I can still remember older guys wearing fedoras with casual attire like that. That's the way I like to wear mine too, with casual attire.

 

[The Fedorable]

The trend toward "ironic" dressing is sort of like wearing something that really you'd never really wear, like a Steve Urkel t-shirt, because your snarky hipster friends would think it's funny and see that you are making fun. The ironic part is that you are really wearing it though, and everyone else isn't in on the joke and just thinks you look like a douche.

Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk 2

I am at a loss for words.

 

[new2hats]

I do believe that prices do limit hat purchases, especially for a new hat. Plus I see an aversion to the use of real fur in general.

 

[aihpcfl]

The OP question is whether prices are hurting hat comeback. Of course prices limit purchasing for those who are constrained, whether they are limited to purchasing less expensive products, purchasing second hand, or making do with current possessions and not purchasing until there is true need. But those people are in the market.

Someone who doesn't use hats isn't possibly limited because that someone isn't in the market, and that is practically everyone. There won't be a hat comeback until people need a hat every day like they need other articles of clothing. It ain't happening. (And may I be proven wrong one day.)

 

[scottyrocks]

In today's disposable era, price isn't a major factor in the potential comeback of fedoras.

Cheap wool fedoras can be had for the price of a really expensive baseball cap, but most people just don't want fedoras, and I don't think they'd be popular even if their prices were commensurate with the price of baseball caps.

And then, although ball caps are relatively inexpensive, and easy to wear, and wash (occasionally), compared to the overall population, not a lot of people are even wearing ball caps.

Fedoras are not coming back any time soon.

 

[cookie]

I have only one thing to add to this discussion: there are a couple of sellers on a certain auction site who consistently price their hats at scandalously high prices. Don't get me wrong--a real treasure of a hat can certainly be justified, and there might even be an argument for popular style hats, but a run-of-the-mill Dobbs 15 going for north of $400 as the asking price? No idea how many hats sell for these amounts, and of course the only price that is too high is one no one offers to buy, but These prices don't help at all.

A

It's like real estate agents do to establish higher price bench marks. You only have to get one or two away and you have a new level.

 

[T Jones]

I have only one thing to add to this discussion: there are a couple of sellers on a certain auction site who consistently price their hats at scandalously high prices. Don't get me wrong--a real treasure of a hat can certainly be justified, and there might even be an argument for popular style hats, but a run-of-the-mill Dobbs 15 going for north of $400 as the asking price? No idea how many hats sell for these amounts, and of course the only price that is too high is one no one offers to buy, but These prices don't help at all.

A

Yup, know the very two you're talking about. Their asking prices are outrageous! Those guys have been sitting on their hats for a long time too, especially since there's a few other sellers on the "bay" who are selling hats just as nice for far less money.

 

[fedoracentric]

Yup, know the very two you're talking about. Their asking prices are outrageous! Those guys have been sitting on their hats for a long time too, especially since there's a few other sellers on the "bay" who are selling hats just as nice for far less money.

Those two goofs drive me nuts. There is a third guy, too, who has mostly western stuff and he thinks every hat he has is 100 years old and worth $400 when most of his hats are less than 40 years old. He constantly misidentifies stuff.

As to other sellers, I was watching a Stetson 100 and with the leather trunk it went for $120, so, yeah, there are other sellers selling at reasonable prices.