Hat Prices and Quality---Vintage, New and Custom

[fedoralover]

I know that this has been discussed before but with so many new members perhaps it would be worth talking about again. Since most people who are new to the hat world don't really know what a quality fedora is and what difference there is between the Vintage, New off the shelf and custom.

I've recently seen some new hats posted on the lounge and while they are nice looking, after seeing what the person paid for it, I had to wonder if they knew that for just about the same money and sometimes less, they could have had a 100% beaver felt, custom order fedora from one of our resident hat makers. This isn't meant to be a plug for any one hatter as I think they all do excellent work. But for instance I noticed on a website that sells 100% beaver fedora's that are off the shelf, they charge $575 dollars. Yes it's Borsalino. I feel it would be a disservice not to inform people that all of the resident hat makers here on the lounge make a custom one a lot cheaper than that and it would be better constructed. A Stetson 4X I just saw on Sheplers website was $229. Again, for not too much more money and with some hatters about the same, you could get a hat that is so far above the quality of the off the shelf one they are not even in the same ball park.

When it comes to the Vintage ones things get a bit more personal because if your a collector you may be willing to spend a lot more for one you want to complete your collection. I have noticed that some vintage ones have not been selling as high as they were for a while. Stratoliners seem to have come down in price, at least the ones I've seen recently. There is always the exception of course.

The whole point of this thread is, do the research on new brands and their prices and quality compared to what the resident hat makers provide. I'm reminded of that commercial that was out a number of years ago. "I could have had a V-8".

I am not trying to disparage any vendors here as some of the hats they sell serve a useful purpose and for some it's a way to get a start into wearing fedora's. But if you are going to start paying in the mid to upper $200s for a new off the shelf fedora, whatever the brand, Borsalino, Stetson etc. do some research and you may be surprised at what you can get in a custom.

fedoralover

 

[tonyb]

I'm not sure I heard you clearly there, fedoralover. Could you say that again, please? And perhaps a little louder?

 

[fedoralover]

I'm not sure I heard you clearly there, fedoralover. Could you say that again, please? And perhaps a little louder?

EVERYONE!! PLEASE READ THE ABOVE THREAD, OVER AND OVER!!!

How's that Tony. lol

fedoralover

 

[Blackthorn]

I think the big difference is this: are you looking for a high quality hat, or a piece of history? High quality can be had from the excellent hatmakers here on FL, and I have many examples in my collection. But I also love owning things with a history too. It's just a matter of personal preference.

 

[fedoralover]

I think the big difference is this: are you looking for a high quality hat, or a piece of history? High quality can be had from the excellent hatmakers here on FL, and I have many examples in my collection. But I also love owning things with a history too. It's just a matter of personal preference.

I agree and the vast majority of my 50 some fedora's are vintage, but the main message of my thread wasn't really for Vintage verses New or Custom, but rather New off the shelf versus Custom.

fedoralover

 

[Blackthorn]

That makes sense, fedora lover.

 

[Alive'n'Amplified]

I bought a new Bailey Gangster model a little over a year ago for $75. 100% wool. It looked shabby after 4 months. I have 13 fedoras now, all fur felt and straw. I paid $75 or less for 10 of them, a little over $100 for 2 of them, and $180 for 1 custom.

All of my hats are above and beyond the quality of most store bought new hats. New Borso's are nice, but I'd still go custom before I paid $500+ for a new hat.

 

[Mark G]

As someone who is in the business of crafting custom products I may be a little biased but there is no comparison between a custom 100 percent beaver hat and an off the shelf, period. Most of the time it's not only a better hat but a better value as well. On top of that you get to pick the particulars.

 

[Tomasso]

there is no comparison between a custom 100 percent beaver hat and an off the shelf, period.

Could you please elaborate? What exactly makes the 100% beaver Borsalino inferior to a 100% beaver custom job?

 

[Mark G]

It's the attention to detail. One person, one hat, and in the case of modern Borsalino's it is my understanding that they are not beaver but rabbit and hare. http://www.borsalino.com/eng/artigianalita.jsp

 

[Tomasso]

in the case of modern Borsalino's it is my understanding that they are not beaver but rabbit and hare. http://www.borsalino.com/eng/artigianalita.jsp

Yes, most Borsalinos are rabbit/hare but they do make a 100% beaver hat which the OP refers to above. Bencraft offers it for $495.

The reason I ask is that I had occasion to handle one a few weeks ago and to my layman's eye it compared favorably, as far as construction and materials, to my Optimo hats and my vintage hats.

 

[Mark G]

Thanks for the info. I still think, for the price (most of these 100 percent beaver custom hats can be had much less than $495.00).

Of course, as I said, I have a bias toward the little guy and custom work in general. I want something made for me that I can say... "Yeah, I know the guy who made my hat."

By the way, A.C. Lyles, I worked for Paramount Studios for almost 20 years.

 

[-30-]

http://www.borsalino.com/eng/theicon/borsalino.jsp

The below gives another take on their "crafting" ability from the right side click:
("Borsalino's Secrets: How it's made")

" before moving on to the finishing operations: the addition of the trims (sewing the lining, morocco-leather bands, ribbons), pressing, and the
careful inspection, always by hand, of every piece. Now, the hat is ready to be packed and shipped to various international markets."
QUOTE: Borsalino's Secrets: How it's made"

The terms, "(sewing the lining, morocco-leather bands, ribbons), pressing, and the careful inspection, always by hand, of every piece."

REALLY?

I just had to Laugh Out Loud after having read ALL of that!


Regards,
-30-

 

[tonyb]

I've handled the 100 percent beaver offerings from both Borsalino and Stetson, and I happen to have a couple of Stetson 100 percent beaver bodies here in the shop.

They're quite nice, both the Eyetalian and the 'Merican. (That's sssuming the Borsalino body is made in Italy. I don't discount the possibility is hails from elsewhere.) They compare favorably to the 100 percent beaver dress weight bodies from Winchester, but I wouldn't say they're superior.

I believe a hatter can buy bodies from Hatco (Stetson's parent company). I know he could a coupla-three or four years ago, when I acquired the two bodies I alluded to above. But I still prefer Winchester because, for one thing, the bodies are substantially larger. Getting a 6-inch open crown and a 2 3/4-inch brim out of one of those Hatco 100 percent beaver dress weight bodies is darned nigh impossible. (That's the primary reason those two bodies are still here. One of these days I'll make a black size 6 3/4 stingy brim, and I'll be down to one). And the Winchester prices are better. And the people there are always a pleasure to work with.

 

[job]

I like having a hat made with more crown and less taper than most new hats. I also like the ribbon work of a custom.

Sometimes the wait for a custom gets old. That's when I'll buy a (Akubra Campdraft, Federation, etc.) new hat to hold me over till the custom arrives.

 

[fedoralover]

In the end, it's your money of course and a person is certainly entitled to spend it where they are inclined and see fit. But one of the purposes of forums like these is to give people an informed choice. If one wants to pay in the upper $200s for a new Borsalino or Stetson or other brand, please be advised you "could have had a V-8".

fedoralover

 

[DarrelMorris]

There may not be a huge difference in actual quality between an off the rack hat and a custom one, but for me, custom always wins. I like the idea of working with an individual craftsman and getting a more unique product. In my opinion it's a no-brainer when the prices are comparable.

 

[seabass]

Fit & Finish are the most important features in a hat.
More so if you are in between sizes or a Long Oval.

If you have to adjust the fit on a Factory hat that will not conform to your head = waste of $$

if you like a taller, straighter, minimal taper crown & a perfect comfy fit..................& lots of choices colors, ribbon, finish, etc.....
hands down custom = more bang for your buck !

 

[LeFonque]

Fit & Finish are the most important features in a hat.
More so if you are in between sizes or a Long Oval.

If you have to adjust the fit on a Factory hat that will not conform to your head = waste of $$

if you like a taller, straighter, minimal taper crown & a perfect comfy fit..................& lots of choices colors, ribbon, finish, etc.....
hands down custom = more bang for your buck !

Totally agree seabass

 

[Historyteach24]

If I am going to drop 500 bucks on a hat you bet your butt it will be customized to my exact specifications. There is no chance I would drop that kind of coin on a off the shelf model.