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Messages
10,879
Location
vancouver, canada
What website did you order your ribbon from? I think that he has a couple of places where he sells ribbon, blocks and other items, I think that he sells blocking springs, I could be wrong?
They have their own web site (just google Guy Morse-Brown) They also sell on Etsy.com
It’s the only authentic ribbon I can get here in the uk. Just a pity it’s not available in 50mm. But as you say it’s very good quality and nice to work with.
Yes, quality 2" ribbon is very very hard to find.
 

humanshoes

One Too Many
Messages
1,446
Location
Tennessee
Here is a picture of my new toy picked up yesterday. It is a 3D printed conformateur made by WalshDesign3D (Etsy.com). It is made from ABS plastic, a much higher grade filament than the standard PLA. His price is waaaaay less than the RA version, and it is higher grade filament. This replaces my old acrylic one. View attachment 618955
Great looking new toy there Robert. His hat blocks also look excellent and are really quite affordable. I'm happy to have my antique blocks and tools, but if I were just starting out I'd definitely go this route.
 
Messages
10,879
Location
vancouver, canada
Great looking new toy there Robert. His hat blocks also look excellent and are really quite affordable. I'm happy to have my antique blocks and tools, but if I were just starting out I'd definitely go this route.
Yes, I prefer both my vintage wood blocks & flanges but have used him to fill in on some sizes and shapes. Ones that I don't get calls for that often and it is hard to justify the expense but at Allan's prices it makes it doable. He keeps honing his quality. His latest is an acetone bath to smooth out the ridges inherent to 3D printing.
 

LorenWho

New in Town
Messages
47
Cylinder Arm sewing machine for sweatbands?

I know that the Singer 107-1 (or similar) is used specifically for sewing in sweatbands using a chainstitch, but I was wondering why a chainstitch?

I just watched a YT video on Borsalino hat manufacturing using what looked like a walking foot cylinder arm machine to do the same. I am assuming that the machine is making a lockstitch.

For me, the cylinder arm machine could be used for other tasks in addition to sewing in a sweatband.

Just wonder what any of you folks who use a machine to sew in the sweatbands are using, and otherwise think about using a lockstitch for the sweatband. I have looked at what the max stitch length is for some of these larger cylinder arm machines, and I believe that they are as large as 5mm.

Thanks

-Loren
 
Last edited:

Deeeluxe Definitely

One of the Regulars
Messages
131
I'm looking to order a 3D printed hat block to remove the shrinkage and taper from my '50s Royal Deluxe Stetson.

My head circumference is 58.3cm. I'm going to fold down the sweatband when reblocking, so to allow for the space the sweat will take up, I'm thinking of going 1/4" (.635cm) up from my head size, bringing the block circumference to 58.935cm. The 1/4" is based on a comment I read here from Art Fawcett.

Being that a custom block order can't be returned, I want to make sure I have it right before ordering. Does this sound right to everyone? I've heard 1/2" suggested, but I want to make sure it's able to get over the block.
 

LorenWho

New in Town
Messages
47
Have you seen the price of those things? Used or Chinese knock-offs are both sky high.
If you are talking about the Singer 107-1 knock offs - yes, very expensive.

The walking foot cylinder arm machines are in the same neighborhood, but I could use them for other tasks.

Is the chain stitch used so it can be easily pulled out. Is it the large spacing of the stitches?

Just trying to get my arms around it all
 

RickP

One Too Many
Messages
1,070
Cylinder Arm sewing machine for sweatbands?

I know that the Singer 107-1 (or similar) is used specifically for sewing in sweatbands using a chainstitch, but I was wondering why a chainstitch?

I just watched a YT video on Borsalino hat manufacturing using what looked like a walking foot cylinder arm machine to do the same. I am assuming that the machine is making a lockstitch.

For me, the cylinder arm machine could be used for other tasks in addition to sewing in a sweatband.

Just wonder what any of you folks who use a machine to sew in the sweatbands are using, and otherwise think about using a lockstitch for the sweatband. I have looked at what the max stitch length is for some of these larger cylinder arm machines, and I believe that they are as large as 5mm.

Thanks

-Loren
I do leatherwork on a Cobra Class 4 ( a Juki 441 clone). Ive done a couple sweatbands with it in lockstitch (personally Im thinking the lockstitch is the way to go... avoids things coming loose unexpectedly and looks way neater. This machine is kinda like swatting flies with a big hammer, but It does the job and avoids having to buy a dedicated machine. One big item is whether the throat is tall enough to wiggle the brim up under the foot and sew without dragging on the edge of the brim. On mine Ill could sew on a 4-1/2" brim with no problem. Since the needle runs at a 90 deg angle, I just had to install a left handed walking foot so I could get way down the crown to about 3/16" above the brim. I did have to fiddle with the thread tension in order to get the bigger needle to work. #19 needles are usually the smallest needle that recommended on my machine. Ive heard of folks having success with #17 needles, but I just ran with a new sharp needle. No problems...DO make sure to select the proper needle tip... most leather needles these machines use are a chisel point that would probably result in a bit too big a hole on felt.

Im betting my little singer heavy duty machine could sew with a 2 1/2 " brim without too much trouble. Its just a little cramped space wise.

Machine stitching is definately faster, but I have to admit that I can hand stitch a new sweat in 30-40 minutes once everything is positioned. I just use millnery pins to hold things still , or Ive also used a thin piece of double side tape... just make sure youre not going to be pulling the needle through the adhesive.... it will gum a needle up pretty fast. In the big scheme of things, sewing by hand is satisfying

A while back someone here posted a pic of an actual antique Singer hatband machine.... really pricy but it was really tempting just because it was so cool.
 
Messages
10,879
Location
vancouver, canada
I'm looking to order a 3D printed hat block to remove the shrinkage and taper from my '50s Royal Deluxe Stetson.

My head circumference is 58.3cm. I'm going to fold down the sweatband when reblocking, so to allow for the space the sweat will take up, I'm thinking of going 1/4" (.635cm) up from my head size, bringing the block circumference to 58.935cm. The 1/4" is based on a comment I read here from Art Fawcett.

Being that a custom block order can't be returned, I want to make sure I have it right before ordering. Does this sound right to everyone? I've heard 1/2" suggested, but I want to make sure it's able to get over the block.
All my blocks are in centimetres. I always block one size up. So for a size 58cm head I block on a 59cm block. Check out WalshDesigns3D on ETSY for the best price on a block. It is very hard to block a felt with the sweat band in place. The felt needs to be well steamed in order to soften it to get the proper stretch over the block. If the sweat is chrome tanned the steam will shrivel it like salt on a snail. Best to remove the sweat and resew after the block. If the block maker can't make it exactly to your size it is easy to upsize the block just a bit by adding a layer of duct tape to get you the extra 3mm.
 
Messages
10,879
Location
vancouver, canada
I do leatherwork on a Cobra Class 4 ( a Juki 441 clone). Ive done a couple sweatbands with it in lockstitch (personally Im thinking the lockstitch is the way to go... avoids things coming loose unexpectedly and looks way neater. This machine is kinda like swatting flies with a big hammer, but It does the job and avoids having to buy a dedicated machine. One big item is whether the throat is tall enough to wiggle the brim up under the foot and sew without dragging on the edge of the brim. On mine Ill could sew on a 4-1/2" brim with no problem. Since the needle runs at a 90 deg angle, I just had to install a left handed walking foot so I could get way down the crown to about 3/16" above the brim. I did have to fiddle with the thread tension in order to get the bigger needle to work. #19 needles are usually the smallest needle that recommended on my machine. Ive heard of folks having success with #17 needles, but I just ran with a new sharp needle. No problems...DO make sure to select the proper needle tip... most leather needles these machines use are a chisel point that would probably result in a bit too big a hole on felt.

Im betting my little singer heavy duty machine could sew with a 2 1/2 " brim without too much trouble. Its just a little cramped space wise.

Machine stitching is definately faster, but I have to admit that I can hand stitch a new sweat in 30-40 minutes once everything is positioned. I just use millnery pins to hold things still , or Ive also used a thin piece of double side tape... just make sure youre not going to be pulling the needle through the adhesive.... it will gum a needle up pretty fast. In the big scheme of things, sewing by hand is satisfying

A while back someone here posted a pic of an actual antique Singer hatband machine.... really pricy but it was really tempting just because it was so cool.
When I began this hat making journey I would daydream of the day I could afford an ASM or such to sew the sweats. But now that I am established and can afford to buy one.....I am content to continue to hand sew them. It takes me about an hour, all in, and I enjoy the process. The time saved is not that important to me.
 

LorenWho

New in Town
Messages
47
I do leatherwork on a Cobra Class 4 ( a Juki 441 clone). Ive done a couple sweatbands with it in lockstitch (personally Im thinking the lockstitch is the way to go... avoids things coming loose unexpectedly and looks way neater. This machine is kinda like swatting flies with a big hammer, but It does the job and avoids having to buy a dedicated machine. One big item is whether the throat is tall enough to wiggle the brim up under the foot and sew without dragging on the edge of the brim. On mine Ill could sew on a 4-1/2" brim with no problem. Since the needle runs at a 90 deg angle, I just had to install a left handed walking foot so I could get way down the crown to about 3/16" above the brim. I did have to fiddle with the thread tension in order to get the bigger needle to work. #19 needles are usually the smallest needle that recommended on my machine. Ive heard of folks having success with #17 needles, but I just ran with a new sharp needle. No problems...DO make sure to select the proper needle tip... most leather needles these machines use are a chisel point that would probably result in a bit too big a hole on felt.

Im betting my little singer heavy duty machine could sew with a 2 1/2 " brim without too much trouble. Its just a little cramped space wise.

Machine stitching is definately faster, but I have to admit that I can hand stitch a new sweat in 30-40 minutes once everything is positioned. I just use millnery pins to hold things still , or Ive also used a thin piece of double side tape... just make sure youre not going to be pulling the needle through the adhesive.... it will gum a needle up pretty fast. In the big scheme of things, sewing by hand is satisfying

A while back someone here posted a pic of an actual antique Singer hatband machine.... really pricy but it was really tempting just because it was so cool.

Excellent! Thank you for this information.

The video of Bosalino factory person sewing on the sweatband was doing it in what appeared to be an interesting way (perhaps this is normal?). They had the sweatband laid in its final position in the hat, and the hat and brim was laid on top of the cylinder arm (the cylinder arm was not inside the hat). Then the machine appeared to be sewing the sweatband between the leather sweat and its bead.

Go to 5:13 in the video: How $2,500 Fedora Hats Are Made

Is this how you are doing it?

Thanks

-Loren
 

LorenWho

New in Town
Messages
47
When I began this hat making journey I would daydream of the day I could afford an ASM or such to sew the sweats. But now that I am established and can afford to buy one.....I am content to continue to hand sew them. It takes me about an hour, all in, and I enjoy the process. The time saved is not that important to me.

I assume that you baste it in place first, then stitch it in place through the tape on the sweat (while the leather is flipped out)
 
Messages
10,879
Location
vancouver, canada
I assume that you baste it in place first, then stitch it in place through the tape on the sweat (while the leather is flipped out)
Yes, My wrinkle is my baste stitches are close together 1/4" to 3/8" or so....in the channel just under the reed..."stitch in the ditch". I used to make much longer baste stitches but not happy with the result so I went smaller. I now leave this baste stitch in and then double stitch it through the reed tape. The sweats are then double sewn. If I am careful in placing the baste stitch 'in the ditch' it is not visible so I started to leave it in. It also makes it easier to control how far outboard I get the reed to sit.....the most important aspect of sewing in the sweats. I have noticed that with some machine sewn sweats the sweat band sit too proud of the brim break.
 

LorenWho

New in Town
Messages
47
Yes, My wrinkle is my baste stitches are close together 1/4" to 3/8" or so....in the channel just under the reed..."stitch in the ditch". I used to make much longer baste stitches but not happy with the result so I went smaller. I now leave this baste stitch in and then double stitch it through the reed tape. The sweats are then double sewn. If I am careful in placing the baste stitch 'in the ditch' it is not visible so I started to leave it in. It also makes it easier to control how far outboard I get the reed to sit.....the most important aspect of sewing in the sweats. I have noticed that with some machine sewn sweats the sweat band sit too proud of the brim break.

That makes sense - thank you. Maybe that is the reasoning for how Borsalino does it with the machine.

"Stitch in the Ditch" - I like it
 

RickP

One Too Many
Messages
1,070
Excellent! Thank you for this information.

The video of Bosalino factory person sewing on the sweatband was doing it in what appeared to be an interesting way (perhaps this is normal?). They had the sweatband laid in its final position in the hat, and the hat and brim was laid on top of the cylinder arm (the cylinder arm was not inside the hat). Then the machine appeared to be sewing the sweatband between the leather sweat and its bead.

Go to 5:13 in the video: How $2,500 Fedora Hats Are Made

Is this how you are doing it?

Thanks

-Loren
The machine they use like that has the needle and foot at an angle. The sew right at the bottom of the sweat and with the angle the stitched come out an 1/8" or so up on the crown. Ive hand sewn one hat like that. worked ok but was a bit or work by hand pushing a needle through the sweat, the sweat backing and the felt ...made for sore fingers lol
 

RickP

One Too Many
Messages
1,070
Yes, My wrinkle is my baste stitches are close together 1/4" to 3/8" or so....in the channel just under the reed..."stitch in the ditch". I used to make much longer baste stitches but not happy with the result so I went smaller. I now leave this baste stitch in and then double stitch it through the reed tape. The sweats are then double sewn. If I am careful in placing the baste stitch 'in the ditch' it is not visible so I started to leave it in. It also makes it easier to control how far outboard I get the reed to sit.....the most important aspect of sewing in the sweats. I have noticed that with some machine sewn sweats the sweat band sit too proud of the brim break.
I did one hat recently using a double needle and a running saddle stitch. Took a bit longer, but the two needles let me identify where the next needle went. Gives a nice clean stitch line with no gaps. When I got back around to where I started, I just double stitched the next three or four holes and it locked things in just fine. Im coming around to agreeing about basting first (probably preferable to the double side tape as theres no risk of gumming up the needles)... once It dawned on me that the basting doesnt need to be overly neat (it comes out afterwards anyway), it goes pretty quickly. If I were going to be doing multiple hats a week, Id probably be using a machine, but since this is just a semi expensive hobby, Im fine with taking longer doing it by hand (my trick to avoid blood on the hat is to wear a thimble on BOTH index fingers, and pull through with a small pair of needle-nose pliers)
 

Darrell2688

A-List Customer
Messages
418
Location
Piner, Kentucky
I sew everything by hand, that is the way that I prefer to make hats. I am getting ready to start work on a fedora in Bone color and my customer wants the brim edge to have a stitch line about 1/4"-3/8" in from the edge of the brim, doing the sewing by hand will be a challenge, but I am willing to give it a try. I like sewing the felt by hand because I have seen the damage a sewing machine can do to the felt and besides that I can't sew a straight line with a sewing machine, I have tried. I do have a new guide foot for the sewing machine, but I have decided against using the machine for hat making. When I get the hats made that I am working on I will post some photos. Always a student, never a master hat maker, there is always something to learn.
 

RickP

One Too Many
Messages
1,070
I sew everything by hand, that is the way that I prefer to make hats. I am getting ready to start work on a fedora in Bone color and my customer wants the brim edge to have a stitch line about 1/4"-3/8" in from the edge of the brim, doing the sewing by hand will be a challenge, but I am willing to give it a try. I like sewing the felt by hand because I have seen the damage a sewing machine can do to the felt and besides that I can't sew a straight line with a sewing machine, I have tried. I do have a new guide foot for the sewing machine, but I have decided against using the machine for hat making. When I get the hats made that I am working on I will post some photos. Always a student, never a master hat maker, there is always something to learn.
The one edge binding I did on a machine, was done by manually advancing/ turning the machine with the wheel (wasnt even plugged in) Basically gave me a third hand to hold things in place, and gave me a really even stitching. Advancing by hand let me really control where the needle went in. Just had to put on some 3x reading glasses to see) Used mini binder clips to hold everything still... stitch 4 or 5 stitches, remove the next clip, and repeat. Took about 15 minutes to go around once I had everything in place and ready ( as opposed to about 35-40 minutes to do one in a double needle saddle stitch). I WILL say that doing by machine really did a good job of keeping the needles out of my finget-tips lol
 

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