Hat making?? Learning Millinery..

[RickP]

I think that you will be happier if you use a polyester thread for hat work. The stitching looks ok, better than I can do, but I don't do brim binding, all of my sewing is by hand. Did you swirl the ribbon that you used for your brim binding? The swirling is the trick and a challenge. I am sure that someone with brim binding will be able to help more, but I think that the ribbon is folded and ironed in half, then the ribbon is swirled to fit the brim, tack stitched in place then sewn into place with a sewing machine, Sounds like a challenge that I may have to tackle by hand.

I agree that a smaller thread would probably have a neater appearance. I did swirl the ribbon to match the edge, so Im thinking the needle size and thin ribbon caused the little scallops. It looked nice and neat before the bigger needle went through ( I looked through my boxes and the smallest needle I could find for my machine was a #23... IM pretty sure Ive got some #19 or 20 needles SOMEWHERE... 19 is the smallest that this machine is recomended with). . My smaller SInger machine is buried somewhere in a spare bedroom... guess I need to go dig it out. At least this was a test piece so no harm- no foul.

Wonder if I should shoot for a color-matching poly thread or even consider a clear monofilliment type?

 

[belfastboy]

I agree that a smaller thread would probably have a neater appearance. I did swirl the ribbon to match the edge, so Im thinking the needle size and thin ribbon caused the little scallops. It looked nice and neat before the bigger needle went through ( I looked through my boxes and the smallest needle I could find for my machine was a #23... IM pretty sure Ive got some #19 or 20 needles SOMEWHERE... 19 is the smallest that this machine is recomended with). . My smaller SInger machine is buried somewhere in a spare bedroom... guess I need to go dig it out. At least this was a test piece so no harm- no foul.

Wonder if I should shoot for a color-matching poly thread or even consider a clear monofilliment type?

Just match the thread colour to the ribbon. A note; buy ribbon at least a shade darker as the colour/shade lightens up when placed against the ribbon or the felt. I would get yourself some decent vintage 6ligne grosgrain ribbon to practice on. May as well practice with the same ribbon you plan to use.

I don't throw anything away and use the brim cuttings to practice on. Even with a machine stitch it takes about 90 minutes to complete a brim binding. The most time is taken up with the baste stitch. The more careful you are with the baste stitch the better the results. The machine stitching itself takes just 10 minutes. It is the ribbon prep and baste that eats the time. Also it really helps if you have a pressure that runs along the brim edge....then you don't have to worry much about keeping a true line.

 

[RickP]

Just match the thread colour to the ribbon. A note; buy ribbon at least a shade darker as the colour/shade lightens up when placed against the ribbon or the felt. I would get yourself some decent vintage 6ligne grosgrain ribbon to practice on. May as well practice with the same ribbon you plan to use.

I don't throw anything away and use the brim cuttings to practice on. Even with a machine stitch it takes about 90 minutes to complete a brim binding. The most time is taken up with the baste stitch. The more careful you are with the baste stitch the better the results. The machine stitching itself takes just 10 minutes. It is the ribbon prep and baste that eats the time. Also it really helps if you have a pressure that runs along the brim edge....then you don't have to worry much about keeping a true line.

Thanks for the feedback. I definately need to check my sources to find some nice thin ribbed grosgrain... This was the only 3/8" that I had on hand. I too collect all my brim trimmings so I have plenty of practice material....I do have an adjustable edge guide on the machine... this test was a firm felt so the roller edge worked fine, but Im thinking a softer felt might do better with the solid smooth gliding piece. Again the biggest issue is the needle and thread size (I primarily sew leather) May be time to go find or order some smaller needles. This was size 207 thread because its what was handy... I should be able to drop down to an 17/18 needle with 96 thread. That should have a neater appearance with less edge scalloping.... will just need to do some testing and maybe play with the tension adjustment a bit so the bottom stitching stays neat.

Ive done a couple leather sweatbands with this machine setup using a 138 thread. Being able to sew in a sweat in 10 minutes was WAY nicer than an hour and a half of hand basting/stitching

By the way... in my leather work, I discovered custom sized double side tape by 3M for positioning things before sewing. Ive got it in 1/2", 1/4" and 1/8" wide rolls. I applied the 1/4" centered on the edge ( just a bit wrapped around the edge on each side) and carefully centered the ribbon in place. a bunch of micro binder clips assured everything stayed flat and in place. The long presser foot of the machine did a good job of holding things flat as it fed through. Definately not the traditional way of hat work, but all in all it worked well.. Always good to find a new unconventional use for expensive machines lol

 

[belfastboy]

Thanks for the feedback. I definately need to check my sources to find some nice thin ribbed grosgrain... This was the only 3/8" that I had on hand. I too collect all my brim trimmings so I have plenty of practice material....I do have an adjustable edge guide on the machine... this test was a firm felt so the roller edge worked fine, but Im thinking a softer felt might do better with the solid smooth gliding piece. Again the biggest issue is the needle and thread size (I primarily sew leather) May be time to go find or order some smaller needles. This was size 207 thread because its what was handy... I should be able to drop down to an 17/18 needle with 96 thread. That should have a neater appearance with less edge scalloping.... will just need to do some testing and maybe play with the tension adjustment a bit so the bottom stitching stays neat.

Ive done a couple leather sweatbands with this machine setup using a 138 thread. Being able to sew in a sweat in 10 minutes was WAY nicer than an hour and a half of hand basting/stitching

By the way... in my leather work, I discovered custom sized double side tape by 3M for positioning things before sewing. Ive got it in 1/2", 1/4" and 1/8" wide rolls. I applied the 1/4" centered on the edge ( just a bit wrapped around the edge on each side) and carefully centered the ribbon in place. a bunch of micro binder clips assured everything stayed flat and in place. The long presser foot of the machine did a good job of holding things flat as it fed through. Definately not the traditional way of hat work, but all in all it worked well.. Always good to find a new unconventional use for expensive machines lol

How do you remove the tape after the sewing? I just use Magic Clips to hold it while basting.

 

[RickP]

How do you remove the tape after the sewing? I just use Magic Clips to hold it while basting.

its extremely thin and clear...would just stay in place after sewing. Have used it for super thin leathers and have never had any issues with staining, bunching up or anything even after being exposed to oils, dry cleaning, alcohol, stain removers, water, etc. Ive pulled apart leather bags for repairs and the stuff was still sticky after a couple years of use. In all honesty if the binding is sewn in a closed loop firs, youre probably correct that it may be simplier to just use clips (Ive go about 1000 of them for holding things anyway). Carefully align things, clip in place and remove clip as the stitch gets close

 

[belfastboy]

its extremely thin and clear...would just stay in place after sewing. Have used it for super thin leathers and have never had any issues with staining, bunching up or anything even after being exposed to oils, dry cleaning, alcohol, stain removers, water, etc. Ive pulled apart leather bags for repairs and the stuff was still sticky after a couple years of use. In all honesty if the binding is sewn in a closed loop firs, youre probably correct that it may be simplier to just use clips (Ive go about 1000 of them for holding things anyway). Carefully align things, clip in place and remove clip as the stitch gets close

The clips hold in place but the key is a good baste stitch line then the final machine sewing is easy.

 

[Darrell2688]

Could the double sided 3M tape be a problem? Is it possible that the tape created the scalloped edges that were created while you were sewing the binding in place? The 3M tape would work when sewing leather pieces together, however the felt is soft and ribbon, the tape between the two pieces wouldn't give as much as the ribbon and felt. I could be wrong? Since you used thread that you use with leather, I have to ask, is that waxed thread in your binding?

 

[RickP]

Could the double sided 3M tape be a problem? Is it possible that the tape created the scalloped edges that were created while you were sewing the binding in place? The 3M tape would work when sewing leather pieces together, however the felt is soft and ribbon, the tape between the two pieces wouldn't give as much as the ribbon and felt. I could be wrong? Since you used thread that you use with leather, I have to ask, is that waxed thread in your binding?

The thread is a bonded polyester thread ( not waxed). On this test piece there wasnt actually double sided tape used.. just clips to hold things in place. Im thinking I also need to reduce some thread tension. Not the right ribbon, Big needle, big thread and just a bit too much tension was prob the culprit. The next test Im thinking of doing a double needle saddle stitching by hand. Its slower, but much easier to control tension and get a much more even stitching. Machine stitching a sweatband has a hidden stitch... out on the brim I want it as neat as humanly possible. No sense turning a nice hat into a cheap looking hat by having grubby stitching

 

[Darrell2688]

I have thought about trying my hand at sewing a brim binding onto one of my hats, I would have to work my way through swirling the binding first and then sew it into place by hand, my wife's Singer doesn't have a guide on the sewing machine and I have tried to use the sewing machine and I can't sew a straight line, the only thing that I can do with a sewing machine is clean it and apply oil where some lube is needed.

 

[RickP]

I have thought about trying my hand at sewing a brim binding onto one of my hats, I would have to work my way through swirling the binding first and then sew it into place by hand, my wife's Singer doesn't have a guide on the sewing machine and I have tried to use the sewing machine and I can't sew a straight line, the only thing that I can do with a sewing machine is clean it and apply oil where some lube is needed.

Theres quite a few adjustable edge guides out there for machines. Im pretty sure there was one that came with my little singer in the kit. for softer materials like felt, Im thinking the smooth edge that glides is better than the roller guides (spreads the pressure over a larger space.. rollers put all the pressure right at one point and can distort the fabric. Ive found that sometimes the biggest skills of using an edge guide is learning when NOT to use it and just go slow and freehand. Whatever someone is comfortable with and works for them is the correct way

 

[Darrell2688]

Can you use a Stitching Awl, there is a stitch awl that will work with a sewing machine needle, I purchased one on Amazon and purchased the sewing machine needles that work with it. My trouble is I have not been able to sew with the darn thing, I always put the thread through the wrong loop in the thread. but that is ok I am faster sewing by hand.

 

[Darrell2688]

Theres quite a few adjustable edge guides out there for machines. Im pretty sure there was one that came with my little singer in the kit. for softer materials like felt, Im thinking the smooth edge that glides is better than the roller guides (spreads the pressure over a larger space.. rollers put all the pressure right at one point and can distort the fabric. Ive found that sometimes the biggest skills of using an edge guide is learning when NOT to use it and just go slow and freehand. Whatever someone is comfortable with and works for them is the correct way

I would be the person that put their fingers to close to the needle while sewing and sew my fingers to the felt, the only person with every finger wraped in a bandage.

 

[RickP]

Can you use a Stitching Awl, there is a stitch awl that will work with a sewing machine needle, I purchased one on Amazon and purchased the sewing machine needles that work with it. My trouble is I have not been able to sew with the darn thing, I always put the thread through the wrong loop in the thread. but that is ok I am faster sewing by hand.

Ive got a couple old stitching awls and they basically get saved for canvas repair... Ive never been able to get neat lines and quality looking stitching. I actually enjoy doing a double needle saddle stitching taking care that both needles pass through the same hole. Gives a nice consistant stitch on top and bottom.. its just slow. That and on a distance like the brim of a hat, I can guarantee I will prick my fingers if not careful. (blood drops on felt is bad lol) I stitch with metal thimbles on each hand, and have a nice thing pair of thin needle nosed pliars handy to pull the needle through rather than trying to push

If the goal is a nice neat stitch, I dont mind going slow.

 

[shopkin]

With one of those awls, the thread size and needle size have to be in sync to get the little loop to form.

 

[RickP]

Someone may have posted this here before, but heres a link to a cool old hat repair manual. I bought a cd of this book online, but the version at this link actually has a few more chapters. Interesting read

https://archive.org/details/scientifichatfin00erma/page/126/mode/1up

 

[CRH]

Someone may have posted this here before, but heres a link to a cool old hat repair manual. I bought a cd of this book online, but the version at this link actually has a few more chapters. Interesting read

https://archive.org/details/scientifichatfin00erma/page/126/mode/1up

Is this a sticky somewhere?

 

[belfastboy]

Here is a picture of my new toy picked up yesterday. It is a 3D printed conformateur made by WalshDesign3D (Etsy.com). It is made from ABS plastic, a much higher grade filament than the standard PLA. His price is waaaaay less than the RA version, and it is higher grade filament. This replaces my old acrylic one.

 

[belfastboy]

I placed a sample ribbon order with Guy Morse-Brown out of the UK and they arrived today. I am most pleased. The quality is great. The ribbon is a blend of cotton & rayon and it has a vintage feel to it, soft and it drapes nicely. Not a huge range of colours but all of the basics. It comes in 5 yard lengths and is not stupid expensive. If you are looking for a good source for ribbon, I can recommend them.

 

[Darrell2688]

What website did you order your ribbon from? I think that he has a couple of places where he sells ribbon, blocks and other items, I think that he sells blocking springs, I could be wrong?

 

[BigHat]

It’s the only authentic ribbon I can get here in the uk. Just a pity it’s not available in 50mm. But as you say it’s very good quality and nice to work with.