Hat making?? Learning Millinery..

[belfastboy]

Hello Everyone,

I cut the brim down today, the brim is 3.25" wide, I had very little waste. I cut my sweatband down yesterday, 23 3/8" long then cut the reed at 24". I have got to find a better way to hold the sweatband ends together while I sew the ends together. I managed to get a bell shape in the sweatband, but it was a battle holding the ends together as I sewed it together. I always have trouble holding the ends together as I sew the ends together. I hand sew everything, including working with leather. My hat is still on the crown block, and I am using brim flange, I use the steam iron on the brim again today, working on giving the brim a slight bell shape. I will see how it turns out tomorrow. I will have to do a little sanding on the felt tomorrow and maybe I will get the sweatband installed. I did check the fit of the sweatband and it fits snug in the hat, and comfortable to wear. My homemade rounding jack worked well, but I will be converting back to a straight blade. Does anyone have a method that will make sewing the sweatband ends together easier?

Darrell

Once I have sized the sweat band and before I install the ferrule I tape the sweat ends together using a vinyl painters tape...not the paper but a yellow vinyl tape. I use two small pieces one at the reed and another to join the leather about half way down. Then I double check the sizing to make certain it fits into the felt properly....snug but without puckers. Once I am sure of the fit then I machine sew the sweat ends together. I start the stitch then remove the first tape then run it up and just before the reed I then remove the second piece of tape. If you use the vinyl painters tape it leaves zero glue residue yet holds the sweat well. The paper painter's tape does not hold well enough to keep the sweat ends that are under tension together.

 

[Darrell2688]

Hi BB,

When you cut your sweatband ends, do you cut the ends straight or do you cut the ends at a slight angle? I cut the ends of my sweatbands straight, no taper of angle. I guess that if you cut the sweatbands with a slight angle, you could get a bell shape from the leather as well as a bell shape from the reed area?

Darrell

 

[Darrell2688]

Once I have sized the sweat band and before I install the ferrule I tape the sweat ends together using a vinyl painters tape...not the paper but a yellow vinyl tape. I use two small pieces one at the reed and another to join the leather about half way down. Then I double check the sizing to make certain it fits into the felt properly....snug but without puckers. Once I am sure of the fit then I machine sew the sweat ends together. I start the stitch then remove the first tape then run it up and just before the reed I then remove the second piece of tape. If you use the vinyl painters tape it leaves zero glue residue yet holds the sweat well. The paper painter's tape does not hold well enough to keep the sweat ends that are under tension together.

Hi BB,

Thank you for the information on the vinyl painter's tape, I didn't know that there was a tape strong enough to hold the ends of the sweatband together. I have read your post a couple of times. When do you install a Ferrule? Do you start sewing the sweatband bands together at the reed section or at the bottom of the sweatband? I force the reed section together with the Ferrule in place and start sewing at the reed and hand sew using a "Z" pattern. I have used book binding tape in the past to hold the ends together, but I still have trouble keeping the ends lined up while sewing, always a learning experience.

Darrell

 

[belfastboy]

Hi BB,

Thank you for the information on the vinyl painter's tape, I didn't know that there was a tape strong enough to hold the ends of the sweatband together. I have read your post a couple of times. When do you install a Ferrule? Do you start sewing the sweatband bands together at the reed section or at the bottom of the sweatband? I force the reed section together with the Ferrule in place and start sewing at the reed and hand sew using a "Z" pattern. I have used book binding tape in the past to hold the ends together, but I still have trouble keeping the ends lined up while sewing, always a learning experience.

Darrell

I only machine sew and start at the bottom working up towards the reed. The ferrule is installed after I have checked the sizing in the felt. Then when satisfied I install the ferrule, tape it, and sew. I use a type of black tailors interfacing to back the stitching. The vinyl painters tape works, the paper Frog tape is not strong enough and duct tape is too strong and leaves a gooey residue.

 

[Darrell2688]

Hi BB,

Thank you for all of your help. I am learning a lot from you. I have seen the tailors binding tape on sweatbands, I had no idea what it was, that is why I gave the book binding tape a try, of course it never held the sweatband ends together properly. Looks like I will be reworking my sweatband after I buy some tailors binding tape. Then start sewing from the bottom and work my way up to the reed, this should improve the looks of my sweatband.

Darrell

 

[belfastboy]

Hi BB,

Thank you for all of your help. I am learning a lot from you. I have seen the tailors binding tape on sweatbands, I had no idea what it was, that is why I gave the book binding tape a try, of course it never held the sweatband ends together properly. Looks like I will be reworking my sweatband after I buy some tailors binding tape. Then start sewing from the bottom and work my way up to the reed, this should improve the looks of my sweatband.

Darrell

It is not the most efficient way to learn but in my life it has been THE way .....good ol trial and error. Frustrating but effective and if hat making were easy I would have gotten bored with it long time ago. Every day, every hat I get better,...... I learn, I refine, I course correct.

 

[Darrell2688]

I am still working on my hat and my hat block. Yesterday I had to make some modifications on my hat block. I cut it down to 6" high and sanded the sides down a little. The block was too high, when I used it, a bulge would form at the crown break of the felt. This if the first hat that I have made in about 2 years and I think that this hat has become a career. My next hat will be a 160g weight, no more 180g. My hat crown block is now 23 3/8" in circumference. The way this project has been going, I won't be surprised if I sanded to much off of my crown block. However, I measured my head and a measurement of 23 1/8" is tight, 23 1/4" is loose, comfortable, so with that in mind the 23 3/8" gives me a 1/4" for a sweatband. I could be wrong?

 

[TWKundrat]

Hello, I'm not trying to derail anyone else's topics but this seems to be the go to thread for hat making questions. I'm in the process of making my first hat and had a question about crown ironing. In some of my reading people say never to iron the felt directly and to always use a piece of cloth in between but in videos I watch of hat makers they use the crown ironing machines directly on the felt. I was just wondering if it would be a good idea to iron the crown directly while it is on the block to mimic the ironing machine. The felt is rabbit and it's going to be a western hat for my fiancee for Christmas if I can pull it off. Thanks in advance for any pointers

 

[belfastboy]

Hello, I'm not trying to derail anyone else's topics but this seems to be the go to thread for hat making questions. I'm in the process of making my first hat and had a question about crown ironing. In some of my reading people say never to iron the felt directly and to always use a piece of cloth in between but in videos I watch of hat makers they use the crown ironing machines directly on the felt. I was just wondering if it would be a good idea to iron the crown directly while it is on the block to mimic the ironing machine. The felt is rabbit and it's going to be a western hat for my fiancee for Christmas if I can pull it off. Thanks in advance for any pointers

This is far from a definitive answer; I do both, with cloth and without. First caution make sure your iron's sole plate is clean and the iron is not spitting out any discoloured water/steam...especially if it is on light coloured felt. I have used a too hot iron (but a dry iron not steam) on felt and singed the felt a bit....shiny like ironing a wool pair of pants without the press cloth. But with a felt a little sandpaper and I was able to pounce the shiny part out. I would proceed with caution, not too hot an iron and not for prolonged periods of time. I have not noticed any real difference in the finish using a press cloth or bare iron to felt. So I tend to use the press cloth as it is the safer choice.

 

[T Jones]

Hello, I'm not trying to derail anyone else's topics but this seems to be the go to thread for hat making questions. I'm in the process of making my first hat and had a question about crown ironing. In some of my reading people say never to iron the felt directly and to always use a piece of cloth in between but in videos I watch of hat makers they use the crown ironing machines directly on the felt. I was just wondering if it would be a good idea to iron the crown directly while it is on the block to mimic the ironing machine. The felt is rabbit and it's going to be a western hat for my fiancee for Christmas if I can pull it off. Thanks in advance for any pointers

Well, since this is your first hat and you're ironing manually, use a pressing cloth. I've always used a pressing cloth, and still do.

With that said, if I had a healthy bank account, I'd love to have a crown ironing machine. They compress the felt and make it thinner and more dense. Hand ironing won't do near the job that one of those would.

 

[TWKundrat]

Thanks fellas. I appreciate the info. Here's how the hat is looking so far. I'm fairly happy with the progress but there's still plenty of time to screw it up

 

[Darrell2688]

So far, your work is looking good to me. I have used a steam iron on any hat that I am working on, but I always wet the felt totally and I use a wet cotton t-shirt over the felt and I don't iron in one area to long. I recently used the iron to stretch out the brim in an attempt to iron out wrinkles that were at the base of the crown and in the process used thumb tacks in the edge of the brim. This process worked and I had never thought of using that process until someone on this forum mentioned it. So, you're in the right place for information on how to do things with hats. Your felt looks like a western weight and looks like you're going to have some sanding to do, A.K.A. pouncing.

 

[TWKundrat]

So far, your work is looking good to me. I have used a steam iron on any hat that I am working on, but I always wet the felt totally and I use a wet cotton t-shirt over the felt and I don't iron in one area to long. I recently used the iron to stretch out the brim in an attempt to iron out wrinkles that were at the base of the crown and in the process used thumb tacks in the edge of the brim. This process worked and I had never thought of using that process until someone on this forum mentioned it. So, you're in the right place for information on how to do things with hats. Your felt looks like a western weight and looks like you're going to have some sanding to do, A.K.A. pouncing.

Yes it is a 180g felt and I haven't started any pouncing yet. Just picked up some sandpaper on my way home from work. I'm sure I'll have some more questions as I go along

 

[belfastboy]

Yes it is a 180g felt and I haven't started any pouncing yet. Just picked up some sandpaper on my way home from work. I'm sure I'll have some more questions as I go along

what grit sandpaper are you using?

 

[TWKundrat]

what grit sandpaper are you using?

I got 400 and 600. Options were fairly limited. Hardware stores sure ain't what they used to be

 

[Darrell2688]

If you go to a automotive parts store you will find a bigger selection of sandpaper. Don't know where your located but if there is a Home Depot close by, they stay normally stay open late and they normally have a good selection of sandpaper. Keep the vacuum close by and wear a mask. If you can find the wet dry sandpaper sponge blocks, pick some up, they come in different grits and work great when sanding the crown.

 

[belfastboy]

I got 400 and 600. Options were fairly limited. Hardware stores sure ain't what they used to be

Be cautious as both are a bit too coarse. I start with 800, then 1000 and finish with 1200. Just make sure you are using a gentle hand lest the coarseness tears the felt fibres. Are you using The Millinery Warehouse felts? They are my standard offering and I like them a lot. Have not had an issue on the pouncing exposing the shellac core or uneven dye penetration.....unlike other manufacturers.

 

[TWKundrat]

Be cautious as both are a bit too coarse. I start with 800, then 1000 and finish with 1200. Just make sure you are using a gentle hand lest the coarseness tears the felt fibres. Are you using The Millinery Warehouse felts? They are my standard offering and I like them a lot. Have not had an issue on the pouncing exposing the shellac core or uneven dye penetration.....unlike other manufacturers.

I'll have to grab some 1000 grit at least. Yes, it's a Millinery Warehouse felt. Seems pretty decent quality to me, not that I know any better. I wouldn't mind finding a reasonably priced source for felts that I could get a little higher crown out of for my next hat. I was able to get about 5-1/4" crown height on this one which should be just enough for what I'm shooting for.

 

[belfastboy]

I'll have to grab some 1000 grit at least. Yes, it's a Millinery Warehouse felt. Seems pretty decent quality to me, not that I know any better. I wouldn't mind finding a reasonably priced source for felts that I could get a little higher crown out of for my next hat. I was able to get about 5-1/4" crown height on this one which should be just enough for what I'm shooting for.

I like the Mill Whse felts. It is possible to get 6" open crowns by stealing some from the brim. Last one I did for a 62.5cm head, 6" crown, 3" brim. My 59cm head I can get almost 3 1/2" brim. It is harder with the western weight, still possible, but more difficult due to the felt's thickness. I have a hard time with arthritic hands pushing it down the block past the brim break.

Mill Whse have about the largest sized felts out there esp if dealing with a larger head measure.

 

[TWKundrat]

Yeah I can't

I like the Mill Whse felts. It is possible to get 6" open crowns by stealing some from the brim. Last one I did for a 62.5cm head, 6" crown, 3" brim. My 59cm head I can get almost 3 1/2" brim. It is harder with the western weight, still possible, but more difficult due to the felt's thickness. I have a hard time with arthritic hands pushing it down the block past the brim break.

Mill Whse have about the largest sized felts out there esp if dealing with a larger head measure.

Yeah I can't get away with stealing any felt from the brim for the western style hat I'm going for. I might try one of the 50x beaver bodies from them for the next one. Has a little more crown height but still barely enough brim for a western.