Hat making?? Learning Millinery..

[deadlyhandsome]

Hello hello!
I’ve just cut the brim to a proper size.
I’ve also tried to fire up a piece of felt from the remain piece of brim I was throwing away.

I am not quite sure it had an effect on the stiffness of the cloth...
It’s fur felt and it doesn’t seem so stiff as I expected.
I’ve used the alcool I usually use to make liquors, do I have to use rubbing alcohol instead?

Is there any other way to stiff it up? Because firing up the alcool on the felt burned some of it and even thought it is quite badass that way I really don’t think it could be a good idea doing this process more than one or two times...
I don’t want to ruin my work on the hat, I want to be sure of what I’m doing before trying the firing on the hat itself.

Any idea?

Thank you very much! (As always)

P.s. I think I really own you a coffe, you are like a smart talking book for me

Have you looked for previous discussions on this? This is not a unique question and with a little effort you can find threads that discuss your question.

Shellac was the traditional stiffening agent and it still works fine. You can also apply a commercial ready-made stiffening agent:

 

[Lorenzo Casarini]

Have you looked for previous discussions on this? This is not a unique question and with a little effort you can find threads that discuss your question.

Shellac was the traditional stiffening agent and it still works fine. You can also apply a commercial ready-made stiffening agent:

View attachment 212794 View attachment 212795

Useful for sure!
But I was looking for some further informations about firing up the hat, not because I’m lazy and I don’t want to spend time searching for it by myself.

The problem is that it is not behaving as supposed. That’s why I’m exposing my problem in details!

Thank you very much anyway!

 

[deadlyhandsome]

As I said

Useful for sure!
But I was looking for some further informations about firing up the hat, not because I’m lazy and I don’t want to spend time searching for it by myself.

The problem is that it is not behaving as supposed. That’s why I’m exposing my problem in details!

Thank you very much anyway!

As I said before, many (I suspect the great majority) custom hatters don’t set their felt on fire. Many think it’s more of a gimmick than an actually useful step. Setting a felt on fire looks good on YouTube or other videos, but it is not needed to produce a top quality hat. I’m not convinced that it does anything for the density or firmness of the felt. It might burn off stray fur fibers, but I think proper pouncing and luring have much more to do with producing a fine finish. Most custom hatters stick to the tried-and-true methods and aren’t concerned with looking “bad ass” when they make hats. Some of the hatters who fire their felt are absolute jokes who produce very poor quality hats that they then sell for $1500 to uneducated Hollywood types who somehow think that poor craftsmanship is bohemian!

The easiest way to control stiffness is to buy a hat body made with the stiffness you desire. Since you are passed that point, I suggest using shellac or some other stiffening agent.

 

[Frunobulax]

As I said


As I said before, many (I suspect the great majority) custom hatters don’t set their felt on fire. Many think it’s more of a gimmick than an actually useful step. Setting a felt on fire looks good on YouTube or other videos, but it is not needed to produce a top quality hat. I’m not convinced that it does anything for the density or firmness of the felt. It might burn off stray fur fibers, but I think proper pouncing and luring have much more to do with producing a fine finish.

The easiest way to control stiffness is to buy a hat body made with the stiffness you desire. Since you are passed that point, I suggest using shellac or some other stiffening agent.

I thought it did something to the finish, as well. I know Tim (AlleyKat Hats) fires his hats at times, but I'm not certain what end result he is looking for.

 

[Lorenzo Casarini]

Thank you everyone for the suggestions and hints!

I apologize for the amount of questions I’m subjecting to you but as a newbie is really difficult and I’m always afraid to ruin everything I’ve done :/

(I should buy -or write- “Hat-making for mad noobs”; it may become a best-seller)

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I thought it did something to the finish, as well. I know Tim (AlleyKat Hats) fires his hats at times, but I'm not certain what end result he is looking for.

i only have one of Tim’s hats. His finished felt certainly isn’t any better than my other custom hats. Maybe it does serve a legitimate purpose, but I don’t think the effects are profound.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Thank you everyone for the suggestions and hints!

I apologize for the amount of questions I’m subjecting to you but as a newbie is really difficult and I’m always afraid to ruin everything I’ve done :/

(I should buy -or write- “Hat-making for mad noobs”; it may become a best-seller)

Have you read “Scientific Hat Finishing and Renovating?” It’s the over 100-year old standard reference book for your type of questions.

 

[humanshoes]

Thank you everyone for the suggestions and hints!

I apologize for the amount of questions I’m subjecting to you but as a newbie is really difficult and I’m always afraid to ruin everything I’ve done :/

(I should buy -or write- “Hat-making for mad noobs”; it may become a best-seller)

Here you go Lorenzo. It'd be hard for you to write a book better than this one.
https://archive.org/details/scientifichatfin00erma/page/n1/mode/2up

 

[jlee562]

i only have one of Tim’s hats. His finished felt certainly isn’t any better than my other custom hats. Maybe it does serve a legitimate purpose, but I don’t think the effects are profound.

Bob at Black Sheep does it occasionally as well. I am inferring from his naming of the "scorch" finish that it is one of the tools he used to turn a heathered, long hair Tonak felt from this:

To this:

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Bob at Black Sheep does it occasionally as well. I am inferring from his naming of the "scorch" finish that it is one of the tools he used to turn a heathered, long hair Tonak felt from this:

To this:

Makes sense for a special finish. The felt does look like it was texture and color/shading variations consistent with being scorched. I wonder how he gets it so consistent.
The more I look at it the more I like the effect.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Thank you everyone for the suggestions and hints!

I apologize for the amount of questions I’m subjecting to you but as a newbie is really difficult and I’m always afraid to ruin everything I’ve done :/

(I should buy -or write- “Hat-making for mad noobs”; it may become a best-seller)

You have raised a lot of questions Lorenzo, with many very good answers from the guys but much of what you are asking is a matter of experience and "feel". I change grit when I know it has reached the best that particular grit can achieve. That takes practice. You do need to be careful not to take too much off as Brent said, the shellac core will start to show through. Please, please, please do NOT use 220 on anything but furniture. I start at 400 and work up to 1200. If you start at the higher grits it will take much longer to get the finish you want but less chance of ruining the felt. As to "singing" ( the correct term for "firing" ) use only an atomizing spray bottle for this. Too large a drop will burn the felt longer that you want. The only purpose for singing is to remove the finest of hairs left after pouncing and normally only on darker colored hats.
Good luck with your learning, it is most frustrating AND rewarding when the hat comes out the way you want. Don't be afraid to fail, I still did right up to my retirement. I cannot count how many hats I've had to throw away and start over with after going too far with it. Part of my success was never letting my clients see those hats

 

[Lorenzo Casarini]

You have raised a lot of questions Lorenzo, with many very good answers from the guys but much of what you are asking is a matter of experience and "feel". I change grit when I know it has reached the best that particular grit can achieve. That takes practice. You do need to be careful not to take too much off as Brent said, the shellac core will start to show through. Please, please, please do NOT use 220 on anything but furniture. I start at 400 and work up to 1200. If you start at the higher grits it will take much longer to get the finish you want but less chance of ruining the felt. As to "singing" ( the correct term for "firing" ) use only an atomizing spray bottle for this. Too large a drop will burn the felt longer that you want. The only purpose for singing is to remove the finest of hairs left after pouncing and normally only on darker colored hats.
Good luck with your learning, it is most frustrating AND rewarding when the hat comes out the way you want. Don't be afraid to fail, I still did right up to my retirement. I cannot count how many hats I've had to throw away and start over with after going too far with it. Part of my success was never letting my clients see those hats

Thank you sir! You told me a lot of interesting and inspiring things!
It’s a pleasure to be part of such a beautiful community

 

[Lorenzo Casarini]

Here’s my first hat guys!
What do you think about it? I would like to have a review

 

[Frunobulax]

Here’s my first hat guys!
What do you think about it? I would like to have a review

Not too shabby; great job!

 

[Lorenzo Casarini]

Hi,
New problem:
The brim doesn’t remain flat when I put the hat on, there are a lot of waves.
I’ve tried to steam-iron it while using an hat jack (hat stretcher) to reach a shape more similar to the head but it didn’t work (maybe it’s even worst).

What can I do?

Thanksssss

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Hi,
New problem:
The brim doesn’t remain flat when I put the hat on, there are a lot of waves.
I’ve tried to steam-iron it while using an hat jack (hat stretcher) to reach a shape more similar to the head but it didn’t work (maybe it’s even worst).

What can I do?

Thanksssss

I’d use a band block rather than a hat stretcher. Assuming you want a perfectly flat brim, you also might need a brim press. There are presses you can buy or you can make one. You can also cobble something together (heavy books, etc.), but the right tools make things much easier.

I’d also add that if you want the brim to be flat it’s a big help to have an edge where the upside down hat’s crown can be recessed as you iron the underside of the brim. Ironing both sides makes a big difference.

 

[Lorenzo Casarini]

I’d use a band block rather than a hat stretcher. Assuming you want a perfectly flat brim, you also might need a brim press. There are presses you can buy or you can make one. You can also cobble something together (heavy books, etc.), but the right tools make things much easier.

I’d also add that if you want the brim to be flat it’s a big help to have an edge where the upside down hat’s crown can be recessed as you iron the underside of the brim. Ironing both sides makes a big difference.

I get it but will the brim stay flat even when I put it on my head? Because until it is on a surface like a table it is perfectly flat, the problem is when I use it

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I get it but will the brim stay flat even when I put it on my head? Because until it is on a surface like a table it is perfectly flat, the problem is when I use it

If the hat is conformed correctly wearing it shouldn’t cause the brim to deform. A properly sized and shaped band block is very helpful. If the weight of the brim is causing it to distort when not supported then you might need to add a stiffening agent.

 

[Lorenzo Casarini]

That

If the hat is conformed correctly wearing it shouldn’t cause the brim to deform. A properly sized and shaped band block is very helpful. If the weight of the brim is causing it to distort when not supported then you might need to add a stiffening agent.

That’s definitely strange so, because it is the right size (maybe a little bit tight but not so much) and the shape is right.
I don’t think the weight could be the problem because if I keep it in my hand the brim stays flat, just a little bit curved down (because of gravity).

I’ve just ironed it so I’ll wait until this evening to let it dry properly and then I’ll give you some photos.

thank you a lot sir, you are a master

 

[deadlyhandsome]

That

That’s definitely strange so, because it is the right size (maybe a little bit tight but not so much) and the shape is right.
I don’t think the weight could be the problem because if I keep it in my hand the brim stays flat, just a little bit curved down (because of gravity).

I’ve just ironed it so I’ll wait until this evening to let it dry properly and then I’ll give you some photos.

thank you a lot sir, you are a master

I’m glad to try to help, but I’m certainly not a master. I’m a hack who likes to experiment.

The real solution is the have a hydraulic brim breaker/plater and a heated sandbagger. Real hatters have invested thousands of dollars in equipment and some tasks just never turn out perfect without the specialized equipment. However, we should be able to flatten a brim.