Hat making?? Learning Millinery..

[Who?]

That is more likely to happen. Let me think on it!

Or, as the Scots say ….. “I’ll have a think about it.”

 

[belfastboy]

I spoke to Bill @buler a couple days ago and he reminisced about the early days of the Lounge and the in-person meet ups.

Might be fun to see if There is interest in reviving the Fedora Fest?

Now that we can actually travel again!

 

[TWKundrat]

This has probably been mentioned on here, but I just got the book "Scientific Hat Finishing and Renovating" by Henry L. Ermatinger after the guys at my local hat store recommended it to me. It's a reprint from 1919 and an interesting read with plenty of useful information.

 

[TWKundrat]

I've seen people mention that the old western hats were generally made from lighter weight felt than today's. About what weight felt would have been typical for prewar western hats and have any of you guys had experience making any wide brim (4" ish) hats with light felts?

 

[Darrell2688]

I have been away for a while due to COVID and I just finished another hat. It is a black stingy fedora 100% rabbit fur, the open crown was 5" before a little bashing and the brim is 2 1/4" wide, the hatband is a 1" wide brown charcoal grosgrain ribbon and the bow keeper has some blue gray grosgrain ribbon added, the liner is a nice gold color, the brim has a slight curve up all the way around.

 

[jlee562]

I've seen people mention that the old western hats were generally made from lighter weight felt than today's. About what weight felt would have been typical for prewar western hats and have any of you guys had experience making any wide brim (4" ish) hats with light felts?

I don't have a scale, so I don't know weights, but I did take this comparison a while back between my 1910's-ish boss Raw Edge (left) and modern (right). I don't have calipers either but I also suspect the modern one is thicker than average.



Here's another between my modern Fortune and Glory (dress weight beaver) vs my No. 1 quality 1920's BOP-ish (maybe) ranger hat.

 

[Darrell2688]

I don't have a scale, so I don't know weights, but I did take this comparison a while back between my 1910's-ish boss Raw Edge (left) and modern (right). I don't have calipers either but I also suspect the modern one is thicker than average.



Here's another between my modern Fortune and Glory (dress weight beaver) vs my No. 1 quality 1920's BOP-ish (maybe) ranger hat.

The Fortune and Glory maybe a little thicker, you might want to check the two felts with a Caliper just to find out. The edge of your 1920's brim looks to be a little more tapered than the Fortune and Glory hat. The felting process in the 1920's may have been done by hand and the modern process, is way different, that is if every felting process done today is like the Winchester hat company.

 

[belfastboy]

I've seen people mention that the old western hats were generally made from lighter weight felt than today's. About what weight felt would have been typical for prewar western hats and have any of you guys had experience making any wide brim (4" ish) hats with light felts?

There are two aspects to a felt. One is the fibre weight and the other is the amount of stiffening. If I am buying felts to make a custom...dress weights range from 95grams to 160grams. Western weight felts 180 to 250grams. But again it does depend on the amount of stiffener in the felt applied at the factory. Generally if you are making a wide brimmed hat and you want a straight flat brim you need the heavier western weights. I know hatters that won't touch a felt under 220grams.

If you plan to do a brim treatment: brim binding, pencil curl, or some manner of flange cupping you can get away with lighter felts as all those things add structural strength to the brim. Straight brims are tough and you need the stiffness to keep them flat.
You can add your own shellac stiffener to any felt weight to get the desired stiffness.

 

[TWKundrat]

I don't have a scale, so I don't know weights, but I did take this comparison a while back between my 1910's-ish boss Raw Edge (left) and modern (right). I don't have calipers either but I also suspect the modern one is thicker than average.



Here's another between my modern Fortune and Glory (dress weight beaver) vs my No. 1 quality 1920's BOP-ish (maybe) ranger hat.

Thanks. That's a good comparison. What's the brim width on the BOP and the No. 1?

 

[TWKundrat]

There are two aspects to a felt. One is the fibre weight and the other is the amount of stiffening. If I am buying felts to make a custom...dress weights range from 95grams to 160grams. Western weight felts 180 to 250grams. But again it does depend on the amount of stiffener in the felt applied at the factory. Generally if you are making a wide brimmed hat and you want a straight flat brim you need the heavier western weights. I know hatters that won't touch a felt under 220grams.

If you plan to do a brim treatment: brim binding, pencil curl, or some manner of flange cupping you can get away with lighter felts as all those things add structural strength to the brim. Straight brims are tough and you need the stiffness to keep them flat.
You can add your own shellac stiffener to any felt weight to get the desired stiffness.

I'm tempted to try making a western more in the dress weight range. I'd like something a little lighter that's not quite as cardboard stiff as most modern westerns but I don't want it to be a floppy mess either. I haven't really played around with shellac stiffener. I have a little Kahl brand spray bottle that I've used on an old beater hat in the past. As far as anything I've made though, I've just used the pre-stiffened felts from Millinery Warehouse and they've been fine as is. If you were making a hat that you wanted to add some stiffness to would you just use Kahl or similar shellac spray or anything different? Also, I know that the pre-mixed shellac for woodworking has about a one year shelf life. Is it the same for the hat stiffener?

 

[Darrell2688]

Hello Everyone,

I recently found someone out in Missouri that makes hat blocks and he makes the blocks to your specs. Clint makes a good hat block at a good price. He sells the blocks for $100.00 each and that includes shipping. He recently made me two hat blocks, the first block is a 59cm stained brown and 6 3/8" tall regular oval, then I ordered another block that is 60cm regular oval and 6 1/8" tall. The 60cm I wanted it without stain because I wanted to apply MinWax Helmsman Clear Gloss, 3 coats. The blocks have 3 holes drilled in the bottom 1" diameter.
I ordered the first block and checked the measurements, everything was spot on with my request, so I ordered a 60cm to replace my old block that I made, after receiving the second block I decided to order a 58cm block. I ordered the 58cm block and that block was mailed out today, I ordered the block 3 days ago.

Here is a photo of my blocks when I received them in the mail, the bare wood block is now a gloss mirror finish.

If you are looking for a new hat block made to your specs, you can text or call him. You can send an email to clintcrump at gmail dot com.

Clint doesn't check his emails very often because he stays busy, he responds faster to text messages, send him an email and then send a text message or call him.

Send me a PM and I will give you his phone number.

Clint is a good man that makes a good hat block at a Good Price.

Darrell

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Hello Everyone,

I recently found someone out in Missouri that makes hat blocks and he makes the blocks to your specs. Clint makes a good hat block at a good price. He sells the blocks for $100.00 each and that includes shipping. He recently made me two hat blocks, the first block is a 59cm stained brown and 6 3/8" tall regular oval, then I ordered another block that is 60cm regular oval and 6 1/8" tall. The 60cm I wanted it without stain because I wanted to apply MinWax Helmsman Clear Gloss, 3 coats. The blocks have 3 holes drilled in the bottom 1" diameter.
I ordered the first block and checked the measurements, everything was spot on with my request, so I ordered a 60cm to replace my old block that I made, after receiving the second block I decided to order a 58cm block. I ordered the 58cm block and that block was mailed out today, I ordered the block 3 days ago.

Here is a photo of my blocks when I received them in the mail, the bare wood block is now a gloss mirror finish.

If you are looking for a new hat block made to your specs, you can text or call him. You can send an email to clintcrump at gmail dot com.

Clint doesn't check his emails very often because he stays busy, he responds faster to text messages, send him an email and then send a text message or call him.

Send me a PM and I will give you his phone number.

Clint is a good man that makes a good hat block at a Good Price.

Darrell
View attachment 488885

Do you know if he offers standard profiles such as the 51, 52, 81, etc? Does he also offer long oval options? How long is the wait for shipping? Does he also make brim flanges? Sorry to ask so many questions, but I’m very curious about these blocks. Thanks for the steer.

 

[Darrell2688]

Do you know if he offers standard profiles such as the 51, 52, 81, etc? Does he also offer long oval options? How long is the wait for shipping? Does he also make brim flanges? Sorry to ask so many questions, but I’m very curious about these blocks. Thanks for the steer.

He doesn't make brim flanges right now, he is busy making hat blocks. Clint use to make hats and sell them out of his car, sometimes traveling 100 miles to open up for sales. He has a CNC machine that he is working with. When I ordered my first hat block I ask him if he could make me a style 52 in 59cm and 6 3/8" tall, he told me that no one has ever ask for a style number, so I sent him pictures of my old hat block, front, side, top, bottom with the demensions that I was looking for and he made me a block to my specs. Yesterday I sent him a text and ask him if he could make a Classic style 52, and I told him that it was just like the blocks that he was making me, except the top of the crown was more of a rounded shape, his reply was, Sure I can do that. As for delivery time, I have had to wait less than 2 weeks from order to delivery.
The measurements for my hat block are 8 1/8" long, 6 7/16" wide in the middle, 6" tall and 60cm diameter, I my block size is a standard size and for a long oval, I am sure that he can make a block in long oval, if you can give Clint some measurements, length, height and diameter.
Clint is 80 years old and stays busy, he use to make hats, now he wants to make hat blocks for people that want to make hats or start making hats, and he wants to keep his prices down so more people can get into making hats.

If you will send me a PM I will give you his phone number, send him a text or call him.

I worked up a document this morning showing outline drawings of the different styles, the only thing missing is the height, length, and diameter.

My 60cm block after applying Minwax Helmsman Clear Gloss

 

[Darrell2688]

Well my 58cm hat block arrived today in the morning mail. The block is 58cm diameter, 6 1/8" tall and it has a clear coat.
Clint told me that he has his CNC machine all setup and ready for work. I worked up some information for him to work with and he has put it to good use, so if you contact him, ask for a style and give him your specs. if you want a block 7" tall I am sure that he can make one for you. If you check the days between my first post and this post I think total time might be a week, from request to delivery, however if Clint gets busy the time between order and delivery will increase. He is very easy to work with, he will take checks and he told me that he can process charge cards.
Here are the photos of my new block and he marks the bottom of the blocks with the size.

If you want to call Clint or send him a text, please send me a PM or start a conversation, and I will give you his phone number and email address. If you are looking for flange blocks, Clint doesn't make those yet.

If you need some new hat blocks, you might want to contact Clint now?

 

[belfastboy]

I'm tempted to try making a western more in the dress weight range. I'd like something a little lighter that's not quite as cardboard stiff as most modern westerns but I don't want it to be a floppy mess either. I haven't really played around with shellac stiffener. I have a little Kahl brand spray bottle that I've used on an old beater hat in the past. As far as anything I've made though, I've just used the pre-stiffened felts from Millinery Warehouse and they've been fine as is. If you were making a hat that you wanted to add some stiffness to would you just use Kahl or similar shellac spray or anything different? Also, I know that the pre-mixed shellac for woodworking has about a one year shelf life. Is it the same for the hat stiffener?

I missed this post/question.....I buy Super Blonde shellac flakes and mix them with denatured alcohol (as pure as I can find). i mix a small batch that will last me a month at most. Be cautious about spray shellac like Zinsers as it contains wax. If you disolve the flakes you get to control the strength of the stiffener. I make it a thin solution and add multiple coats as needed. Far easier to add another coat as you can't very well take it out once it is in the fibres. I use a brush rather than spray....easier to contain.

 

[belfastboy]

I had a fun project this week. A local fellow brought in a hat purchased in Japan. It was wool, no sweatband, no liner, not even a crown ribbon. It was black felt with a domed mid height crown. Looked much like a Monsignor's hat. It was meant to have a straight flat brim but it dipped front and back like an Aussie hat. I measure his size/head shape. He was a perfect regular oval but the hat was a true oval and it pinched him on the forehead forcing the brim downwards.

I put two coats of shellac to the brim, jacked it out gently front and back. That was difficult as the jack pushed out the felt so easily and left the imprint of the jack as a bubble in the lower crown. But I finessed that the best I could. Put the hat in the brim press overnight.

It worked. He now has a flat brimmed hat that he can wear without hating the look. He was so impressed with the magic I worked that he put in an order for a custom.

 

[Darrell2688]

I had a fun project this week. A local fellow brought in a hat purchased in Japan. It was wool, no sweatband, no liner, not even a crown ribbon. It was black felt with a domed mid height crown. Looked much like a Monsignor's hat. It was meant to have a straight flat brim but it dipped front and back like an Aussie hat. I measure his size/head shape. He was a perfect regular oval but the hat was a true oval and it pinched him on the forehead forcing the brim downwards.

I put two coats of shellac to the brim, jacked it out gently front and back. That was difficult as the jack pushed out the felt so easily and left the imprint of the jack as a bubble in the lower crown. But I finessed that the best I could. Put the hat in the brim press overnight.

It worked. He now has a flat brimmed hat that he can wear without hating the look. He was so impressed with the magic I worked that he put in an order for a custom.

I am not surprised, after all your work is outstanding, your hats look like a work of perfection, you're very particular about your work and it shows, Simply beautiful work.

 

[belfastboy]

Tim @purebeaverhatsupply has a new 140gram FEPSA beaver felt incoming soon....that is the good news. The bad news is that prices have risen about another 15%. In the last 18 months the increase is huge. European beaver felts have almost doubled in price in the last 18 months if memory serves.

 

[dmeist]

Purchased a few of the Nutria felts. So far, I like them. This one turned out nice. Price is much lower than the beaver. Starting another one, will keep you posted.

 

[M Hatman]

Hat making/refurbishing 101
Pay attention to the re-purposed fabric you use on your wood flange for those light colored hats...........
BEST not to used corded sem-ripstop!

Luckily easily remedied.