Hat grumble grrrr

[jake_fink]

Matei,

You look like a bruiser in your avatar, but you're really a cock-eyed optimist. Cool. I got some sweet hats and ties... even some high waisted trousers at beautiful prices when I lived in London. But that was almost fifteen years ago now (15 years!?! I'm old :cry: ) I like the guitar story. It shows that collectors can share as well as horde. Nice.

:cheers1:

 

[GA Wildlifer]

Long-timers

Have you noticed any seasonal trends in felt fedora auction prices? It makes sense that they go down in hot weather when straw is in, but I have not been looking long enough to see any trends other than up, up, up.

 

[Katt in Hat]

A really fine post.

PutALidOnIt: #14

"Whew...what a rant..."

Not at all, Sir. Cogent and most informative rather. :arated:

 

[PutALidOnIt]

Why, thank you, Katt!

Now about all the passive voice construction we read out there...aarrrgh!

...don't get me started...uh, oh...too late!

 

[Fedorista]

I didn't want to start a thread so I'm here with a question.

Stetson Sovereign vs. Royal Stetson

Which was the better grade, if that applies? Any other info. will be well taken, not stirred.

1953's hierarchy: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13991&item=6603989508

 

[Brad Bowers]

This is quite telling regarding Stetson's corporate mentality when they label dress hats as the "Novelty Hats" category!:rage: Easy to see they were really going for the Western market as early as 1953.

Brad

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Look, guys, it's not much fun for sellers, either. Vintage hat dealers have to buy their stock from somewhere, and that sometimes means eBay. It's an upward cycle: hat sellers are paying higher prices on eBay for vintage hats to resell, and you're paying even more when buying from them afterwards.

 

[John in Covina]

Look, guys, it's not much fun for sellers, either. Vintage hat dealers have to buy their stock from somewhere, and that sometimes means eBay. It's an upward cycle: hat sellers are paying higher prices on eBay for vintage hats to resell, and you're paying even more when buying from them afterwards.

*****
An inflationary cycle has begun in fedoras, soon up goes the interest rates!

 

[Marc Chevalier]

1.


2.


3. :cry:


4. :beer:

 

[Twitch]

Jake- I agree somewhat on the Ebay thing and not just hats. Either a nice item is insulted with lowball bids or people just throw money at something they want with no regard for its actual value. I've noticed this from hats to classic cars.

I have made great deals but only by sticking to my philosophy of limiting myself. If my max is $35 I will not go $36 on something. Things get unnoticed sometimes and you can steal them. Other times there's a bunch of people bidding on one thing. Weird cycles at work. Patience is the only thing that seems to work. After that apathy- don't care if I win it cause I don't really NEED it.:fedora:

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Patience is the only thing that seems to work. After that apathy- don't care if I win it cause I don't really NEED it.

Wise words from a wise man. Thank you for them.

 

[Pilgrim]

Hey Katt, you asked about the quality levels of:

"Stetson Sovereign vs. Royal Stetson".

I'll take a stab at it but first I'll say that I'm no authority. However, I'm sure someone else will correct me where I go wrong.

The only Soverign I've had my hands on was a really nice, heavy, quality felt with a finish that was more plush than the standard Stetson dress finish. It wasn't a velour, but there was definitely a bit more nap than my Whippets.

However, it also was a SMALL hat overall. Much lower crown than the 40's hats, brim about 2" wide. I've looked at many auctions that had a Sovereign, and although it's hard to tell without someone wearing the hat, I suspect Sovereign was a term Stetson used in the 60's or 70's, at a later date than "Royal". (I may be wrong).

More importantly, I suspect the Sovereigns are a smaller-scale hat and more in a 60's Dick Van Dyke idiom than the higher-crowned, wider-brimmed hats of a decade or two earlier. Based on the only Sovereign I've had my hands on, the quality of the hat appeared by be every bit as good as the Royal models I've seen. But the style was different and it was a smaller hat overall.

Now I'll wait for someone to correct all my misinformation!

 

[tonyb]

Well, Pilgrim, I'm no expert either, but I can tell you that my Stetson Twenty Ambassador, which has "DEC 23 1957" stamped on the inside of the sweatband, is a Sovereign, or at least that what it says on the left side of the sweat. It's a relatively tall-crowned hat with a 2 3/8-inch brim.
I've also seen "Sovereign" stamped on the sweatbands of various styles of Stetsons, large and not so large.
Perhaps we should consult jamespowers.

 

[tonyb]

Wise words from a wise man. Thank you for them.

Indeed.

 

[jamespowers]

Well, Pilgrim, I'm no expert either, but I can tell you that my Stetson Twenty Ambassador, which has "DEC 23 1957" stamped on the inside of the sweatband, is a Sovereign, or at least that what it says on the left side of the sweat. It's a relatively tall-crowned hat with a 2 3/8-inch brim.
I've also seen "Sovereign" stamped on the sweatbands of various styles of Stetsons, large and not so large.
Perhaps we should consult jamespowers.

Well, if you go by the literature Stetson put out back then, The Sovereign was $20 per hat while the Royal Stetson was $10 per hat. This suggests that The Sovereign was indeed a better hat that used a more expensive hat body than the Royal Stetson. Twice as expensive.
If you consider the 1953 grade levels based on price, in increasing price order we have the Royal Stetson, Royal Stetson Deluxe, Imperial Stetson and 3X Beaver, Sovereign.....
This also tells us that the Sovereign as a hat model is at least 53 years old. I am pretty sure there are older models of the Sovereign out there as well. The Stetson Ambassador could well have also been a Sovereign. Their price points were the same---$20 as you noticed ont eh sweatband. The fact that your hat is dated helps you quite a lot and you can build on that in the future. Not many hats were dated on the inside. It "dated" the hat and made it unsalable beyond a certain point. Now it is hard to see such a thing because we want the dates.
I hope that answers a few questions.

Regards to all,

J