Hat blocks/shapers/home made?...

[The Block Guy]

I want one!

I will keep you all posted

BG

 

[Kangfish]

Hey Block Guy I want one too!! I hope you'll let us know when you have them available. KF

 

[Kangfish]

Ha ha. While I was posting that you posted and said you would keep us posted. Sooo... I'm not really That stupid. KF

 

[The Block Guy]

Hey, dont worry about it...I will keep you all posted and on any other tools.

I have a slick micro rounding jack that is almost perfected!

 

[Brad Bowers]

Good to know you'll have a 3D duplicator. That may be the only way I can get a set of proper Derby blocks. I've only found one on ebay, but it can work as a pattern.

Then, if I can just find a front and rear tolliker, I can make proper Derbies. Nobody makes those particular tollikers anymore, and I have yet to see one come up for auction on ebay.

Brad

 

[The Block Guy]

Good to know you'll have a 3D duplicator. That may be the only way I can get a set of proper Derby blocks. I've only found one on ebay, but it can work as a pattern.

Then, if I can just find a front and rear tolliker, I can make proper Derbies. Nobody makes those particular tollikers anymore, and I have yet to see one come up for auction on ebay.

Brad

Brad,

If you can get me a picture of these tollikers or even a sketch they should not be too difficult to make.
Just let me know.

TBG

 

[Brad Bowers]

TBG, here's a photo of the business end of one:

The front and rear tolliker is used to make the very short, tight curl on the front and rear of Derbies. A separate curling shackle is used for the sides.

I have no idea how hard it would be to make something like this.

Brad

 

[tonyb]

...

Good old wood blocks are the best if you are going to hit the hat with a lot of steam and hot irons.

...

The Block Guy

Ain't it the truth.

 

[tonyb]

...

We have a lot of cool stuff in the works....redesigning and bringing back a lot of these things that are hard to come by.

The Block Guy

Glad to hear it. Does this operation of y'all's have an online presence yet? Or would that be putting the cart before the horse?

Are you still in the prototype phase? I see that rounding jack in your avatar photo. Knocked out many of those yet?

 

[Mark DeCou]

Groove Tolliker with Overwelt Groove

I've done several block style curling tools that I've been calling Groove Tollikers, per Ermatinger's book description. The Overwelt foot groove is something I've done several times. I have also made them in a traditional Foot Tolliker shape with the overwelt carved groove in the bottom of the foot. This allows you to roll up and down, or under, for curling, or flattening to do a bound brim edge.

Here are some photos to see of a few I've sold:

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/8708

Thanks,
Mark DeCou
www.decoustudio.com

 

[Brad Bowers]

Nice work, and I've watched as you've expanded your offering over the past couple of years.

How difficult do you think one like the front/rear tolliker, where the groove increases in depth from zero at one end, to perhaps 3/32 at the other end, with perhaps a 45 degree or so angled curl? It's also pictured on page 98 of the Ermatinger book, but the photo above gives a real example.

Thanks,

Brad

 

[Mark DeCou]

Rounding Jack Cutting a Brim Video Posted

I've been making and selling rounding jacks for something like two years now.

Finally, I have a video to show how they work on a hat brim.

The video shows one of the Collector models that I've built, but the simple Hobbyist-Hatter Model works the same way.

If you want to see the video you can go here:

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/16387

Here is the youtube page where Tom has posted his videos of some of the other tools he has that I've built.

http://www.youtube.com/user/gmctruck1999

thanks,
Mark DeCou
www.decoustudio.com

 

[Mark DeCou]

Overwelt Groove Foot Tolliker

Brad: I've done several with the tapered Overwelt groove on the foot. The groove starts out at whatever shape you want, and tails off into a vee toward the back, and ends with the foot being flat.

Some of the old ones I've copied had a rounded entry curve, others have been more of a vee groove starting point. Some have a wide entry, others a narrow entry. Some are shallow, some are deep. There seems to have been a lot of options. I've studied and measured one that was a square block with two different grooves on each face.

I normally get these older tools either sent to me for copying, or I borrow them for something I'm working on for someone. I have guys that let me borrow things if I need measurements. I use a machinist's caliper and record all the details for future use and template making. And then I scratch my head at times to guess at what the dimensions might have been before the wear of using the tool affected the shape and size of the groove. Some have noticeable wear, others look like they've never been used. But for a fact, there are many, many different shapes, curves, and grooves.

Another thing that varies on them is the radius of the groove on the foot, to match the circumference of the style of brim. A Bowler would have had a smaller radius than a cowboy hat for instance. So I make the radius to match what the buyer wants the tool to do.

So, I've done them with small grooves, and larger grooves, and shallow grooves, and deeper grooves, and ones that ended in a small vee with a flat area. That flat area allows you to form the felt on down into a fold, and then you can either iron it flat, or just use the heel of the tool.

This tapered groove allows you to start the roll, and as you work it on back on the foot, it rolls it on down and over.

As far as carving & woodworking goes, the hat tools are the simplest things I make, and at times they do get pretty boring for me. But, they've kept me in business when the high-end furniture started to die out in late-2008 with the economy.

I'm very happy to have been introduced to the wooden tools by Hatman Jack. Without them, I'd have been forced to find a real job last year....and may still, only God knows.

thanks for asking,
Mark DeCou
www.decoustudio.com

 

[Bill Greene]

Mark:

I've seen a lot of work in photos. I'm a woodworker myself (build guitars) and I have to say your stuff is true art...just gorgeous.

Bill

 

[Mark DeCou]

Guitar Building & Woodworking

Thanks Bill. Woodworking is about all I am good at. I used to try and pretend to be something else, but I was only operating in about 30% of what I can do. I decided to give up and just become a woodworker full time back in 1997. It's been a wild ride since, and a step I don't regret, although not a very profitable venture.

I stepped out of it twice during that time, one time to teach it, the other to be an engineering type technical salesman again, only to step back into woodworking again. Going at it full time now again since Feb. of 2005.

I didn't know really if I'd make it through 2009 with the economy the way it is, but God has been blessing what I'm doing and so I've hung on so far. Actually had the best first quarter this year than I've had in the last 13 years. Go figure.

I'm working on a couple of solid body electrics now myself. Helping a neighbor's teen son with building a solid body electric, and so I decided to build a Bass and a 6-String at the same time. We decided to do some fancy veneer inlays, and some body carving, and I made a sculpted pick guard for the Bass. Fun stuff, but it is slow going work. We are working on getting the finishes ready on all three guitars so that we can wet sand and polish them. I don't know what the future holds with the guitars, I'm doing it as a hobby, and will try and sell them when they are done and see where it goes. Over the years I've learned that whatever I make, someone will buy it, it's just a question of whether it be enough money to warrant the effort. That I never seem to know until I've tried it.

The kid is home schooled, so we are working together sort of like a shop class, just one on one. I'm using this effort also to learn more about how to teach woodworking, as I committed to teaching a week at the John C. Campbell Folk School in June of 2011, in Brasstown, NC.

My dad was a woodshop teacher while I was growing up, but I have alot to learn about teaching, so this time together on the guitars has been good for me as well.

thanks,
Mark DeCou
www.decoustudio.com

 

[The Block Guy]

Glad to hear it. Does this operation of y'all's have an online presence yet? Or would that be putting the cart before the horse?

Are you still in the prototype phase? I see that rounding jack in your avatar photo. Knocked out many of those yet?

Tonyb,

Soon very soon on the website. Everything recently that I have been building...(multiple sets of blocks ,flanges and other tools) have been for hat makers that are of a custom design for them so I cant really take photos of them for the public to view. I am working on some "standard blocks and flanges" that I will be able to post on the site...so soon very soon.

My first rounding jack I built years ago off of a pic in an old hat makers book. I followed that and it work well. Most of the hats I have made have stingy brims...so I really didn't need a jack that big. So I decided to make it smaller...actually 46% smaller and it will cut up to 4 1/4 brim. It fits in the hand very nice and runs around very well. I am sourcing out some stainless parts which I think will really complement the black walnut.

Like I said I want to make top quality blocks and tools that are not out of reach in price. This is how I got into this. I really didn't have lots of funds laying around to buy these items when I knew they weren't exactly what I wanted, and the prices were crazy. So as my dad always says "if you cant find what you want....make it your self!"

More stuff to come....

Cheers

 

[The Block Guy]

TBG, here's a photo of the business end of one:

The front and rear tolliker is used to make the very short, tight curl on the front and rear of Derbies. A separate curling shackle is used for the sides.

I have no idea how hard it would be to make something like this.

Brad

Brad,

Hey...a picture is a start. I have actually built a few things for some guys off a very slim idea. So a pic is a big help. I will do a little drawing off of this pic and see what I can come up with.

Might you have a side shot of this guy?

Cheers

 

[Hat and Rehat]

Are there lathes that will do the right shape? All the oval lathes I've heard of only do two-way symmetrical ones.

I made my block and flanges with a band saw for the coarse shape. A jigsaw would do, too; you'd just have to cut more individual pieces before laminating them. The 'fine' shaping I did with a belt sander. Not professional grade, I'm sure, but adequate for me.

I've just been making some, and laminated my wood into big blocks first. There's a relatively new tool out there ---- basically it's a small chainsaw, running the chain on a 4" disc instead of a 16", 18", 20", etc. bar. Chuck it to a 4" or 4 1/2" angle grinder, and you can rough your block in pretty fast. I used spray adhesive to put my pattern on one end. After roughing it, I clamped each block to the corner of a work bench with two bar clamps, rotating them as needed, then got a close shape with a belt sander resting on my hip. A random orbital finished them up.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I've just been making some, and laminated my wood into big blocks first. There's a relatively new tool out there ---- basically it's a small chainsaw, running the chain on a 4" disc instead of a 16", 18", 20", etc. bar. Chuck it to a 4" or 4 1/2" angle grinder, and you can rough your block in pretty fast. I used spray adhesive to put my pattern on one end. After roughing it, I clamped each block to the corner of a work bench with two bar clamps, rotating them as needed, then got a close shape with a belt sander resting on my hip. A random orbital finished them up.

You’re replying to a post that is over 9 years old...don’t expect a reply.

How did you set the oval? I can see how the circumference wouldn’t be that difficult, but the shape/oval sounds tougher to get right. I’ve seen lathes with duplicator capabilities for making furniture legs etc. CNC machines would be the way to go, but a huge investment that isn’t practical if you’re only making blocks for yourself.

If you’re looking at using your blocks to make hats that others will buy, most customers will want to know the profile of the block. The #52 block is a perennial favorite, but others are needed if you’re going for a different look. I think you might end up money ahead if you bought the commercially made blocks of the profile you’re after (or keep watching the used/vintage market).

You might also see if there is a hatter who will let you do some sort of abbreviated apprenticeship?


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[Hat and Rehat]

You’re replying to a post that is over 9 years old...don’t expect a reply.

How did you set the oval? I can see how the circumference wouldn’t be that difficult, but the shape/oval sounds tougher to get right. I’ve seen lathes with duplicator capabilities for making furniture legs etc. CNC machines would be the way to go, but a huge investment that isn’t practical if you’re only making blocks for yourself.

If you’re looking at using your blocks to make hats that others will buy, most customers will want to know the profile of the block. The #52 block is a perennial favorite, but others are needed if you’re going for a different look. I think you might end up money ahead if you bought the commercially made blocks of the profile you’re after (or keep watching the used/vintage market).

You might also see if there is a hatter who will let you do some sort of abbreviated apprenticeship?


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My first blocks are copies of the 0052. If you are asking about the oval at the flange, basically three ways. When I replaced the reeded sweat in my Stetson I also added one to a wool woman's hat for my wife. It was from 9 West, so is a bit better than the run of the mill cheap Chinese wool felts that most women seem to wear now days. It looked like a Billy Jack hat with two shallow dents, but in a nice peanut butter color.
I wanted to turn it into a fedora, taking all of my cues from one that Stetson made in conjunction with Hats in the Belfry which I admire. Remember, the point for me is practice. She wanted it kept western, so I did a 'Gus' crease, sewed a satin liner, and gave it the leather sweat (I need a LOT more practice sewing liners).
At that time I was running blind as far as how to replace a sweat. Until you stumble onto the Lounge, there's a derth of instruction about it ---- a couple of cowboy guys, but they aren't very clear.
As part of measuring our heads I had the idea of taking the measurement from a tape, mark it out on electrical wire stiff enough to hold a shape, but not too stiff to form (14g worked good in solid wire and 8g in stranded).
Cutting these to length, I could then form them into an oval and join the ends with tape, then put them on the glass of our printer and make copies. By cutting out copies and folding them down the middle I could cross check my symmetry until I got it right. I did almost the same thing working from hats. Trying to measure the inside of an oval is for the birds, but forming a maleable wire to the shape isn't that difficult. When it's right, you can open the wire, straighten it, and measure that. It's proven quite accurate. I did this to my Stetson and to a somewhat vintage Deer Park straw fedora I have, both with sweats cracking along the stitching at the flange. I did it prior to cutting out what remained of the sweats, then removed the ferules, straightened the reeds, and measured them. Pretty much spot on.
This is also how I learned about the flare, or bell shape of a reeded sweat. I had to reverse engineer it on my own.
I was still unsure of how to sew the sweats in, and a bit intimidated about starting, so I took a break from that to work on a liner for my wife's Gus. I didn't know anything about bias, but I did see the curve in the sweats I ordered (nice roan ones from a fellow Coloradan, for $7.50/).
Again, information was hard to find, but I finally found a sewing tutorial by a woman teaching how to make a fabric bucket hat. I learned how to calculate the curve for the liner wall, and she also had an oval template one could download and print. Using this, I could refine my other patterns.
I know they might not be perfect. I really don't think anyone who would be concerned about that is going to contract a hat with me anytime soon though.
I had rotator cuff surgery last December 5th, almost two years to the month after my other shoulder. The first shoulder is probably 85%. This last one, maybe 60%. Think for a minute about what that means for a carpenter in residential construction. I have great bosses; they'll keep me on even as my productivity falls off. But I don't want charity.
I know your advice is offered to help me, but I just don't have the time needed to do it the best way. Making the kind of hats we all dream of making is down the road for me.
Presently I have a business to launch. Henry Epinger's Scientific Hat Making inspired me. He talked about renovating hats, and about modernizing them to the latest fashions.
As the felts and straws of today deteriorated from the past, the trimming of hats fell much, much farther. Why do people accept a 5/8" strip of polyester grosgrain as the sweatband of a hat? They do! Why do they accept sticky vinyl that doesn't breathe, making them sweat instead of relieving the sweat they have? They do that too. It's because most of them never touched a quallity hat. They never realized there is even a difference. They need to be educated, and that's my niche.
I have 75 or 80 straw hats, mostly used, and many more than abused. I'm going to block them, iron them, clean them and sell them, with options. Pick your hatband. Pick your sweatband (and this is where I get to instruct). This is where I'll build my future client base.
I hope to be premiering in two weeks, probably at a flea market.


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