Hat Bashing and Crown Size

[luke]

Hi there,

Just a quick question (and it's probably been done to death elsewhere in the forum), but I have just bought a new open crown fur felt fedora with a 2 1/4" brim and a 5" crown.

I'm finding it difficult to create any sort of a shape in the crown that will work.

I think its partly because the hat has a relatively low crown and I perhaps have a high forehead (!).

There's not a lot of clearance between the top of my head and the crown when it is left 'open'.

When I have made a centre crease it just doesn't work, as my head pops it out again!

Is a 5" crown just too short to be creating shapes with? Or am I doing something wrong?

I am thinking of returning the hat and getting a refund so I don't want to be experimenting too much and rendering it un-returnable.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[gtdean48]

...
Is a 5" crown just too short to be creating shapes with? ...

Yes, you need a minimum 5 1/2" open crown. 5 1/4" is too low IMHO.

 

[jlee562]

5 1/4 is the shortest hat I have, looks good with a center dent. 5" seems quite low for an open crown hat....

 

[luke]

Thanks guys,

Yeah, am pretty new to all this but guessed that was the case.

Is a shame because the hat is fine apart from not having enough depth where it needs to. Thought I'd sourced myself a good deal for £50!

I do check ebay fairly regularly for vintage hats but its not always easy to find a relatively low cost hat in my size (7 3/8).

Back to the drawing board.

 

[Rabbit]

5" OC is the lowest crown height that I've seen in vintage hats. The Mallory Nokabout and the Disney Gadabout, both models intended for travel, had a 5" open crown.
5 1/4" OC were not uncommon on the continent. 5 1/4" is still a lower crown, not a full crown. In the U.S., 5.5" was pretty much the standard in the 1930s to 1950s.


It's impressive how much difference the 1/4" increments make.
5 5/8" and 5 3/4" OC are quite a lot more material to work with, allowing very deep dreases, and 6" OC is as high as dress hats ever got, excluding some exaggerated styles as for instance the 6 1/4" fedoras that were made in the short-lived bold look fashion of the late 40s.

In addition to the open crown measurement which is taken at the center of the crown without distorting the block shape while taking measurement, the overall shape of the block is also an important factor in perceived crown height and in the way the crown will take creases. The crown roof can be more flat or more rounded, the sides taper to varying degrees (front/back view, and side view are different from each other).

See also Josh's posts in Limits of Blocking post #31 onward.

 

[luke]

Thanks for the info Rabbit.

I agree about how a little seems to make a lot of difference.

My dad has got a real nice hat that I'm trying to find a duplicate of in my size.

Its a 2" snap brim fur felt with a 5 1/2" crown, with little or no taper. Says 'English Velour' on the label. Looks great and has a nie flexible crown, is just not in my size.

I think I like the 30s style trilby / fedora myself.

 

[Annixter]

Agreed with Rabbit and others. As you have seen luke, the amount of OC height one needs depends on his facial structure. 5" allows plenty of room for deep bashes on some people while restricting depth for others--it's part of the fun of finding the crown style that best suits your head/face. That beings said, you are probably going to need deeper OCs with possibly a different shape than what you now have.

Before returning the hat, you might try shaping a teardrop or diamond instead of a center dent. Depending on how much material is available on the top (dictated largely by the taper and whatnot Rabbit mentions), you can sometimes shape these bashes to where the center of the top is still somewhat open, creating a little dome for your head that might allow you better fitment. It's worth a shot. Here's a teardrop from the teardrop workshop thread I recommend reading if you want to experiment with the style (it's a taller crown, but I just wanted to show you a photo for reference):

Teardrop Workshop Thread

 

[m0nk]

I have a late 50's-early 60's Stetson Playboy with a 5 1/4" crown and have it in a high diamond crease which works well for my head. This is the shortest crown I have though, with others in the 5 3/4" range. The taller crown you have, the more you can do with it, but it's also about what you think looks good on you. A center dent might work, or a high diamond if you wear the hat higher on your head.

Personally, a deep diamond in a tall crown (5 3/4") is my favored style, but everyone is different, so something in a 5" center dent or high diamond with a dome might work well for you if it's done right.

As far as the crease popping out when you put the hat on, crease it wet and let it dry. Depending on the felt, that should allow it to hold a bit better.