Hasidic Jewish hats

[Lotsahats]

Super job, Aaron! Thought I'd add to your wonderful compilation with this article about "Jews and Their Hats" from an even broader perspective...

Zie Gezundt, Y'all!!

Werner Cohen's site is fantastic. I love it.

Thanks for your answer to my earlier question, Aaron - "you have to hold them on with your hand".
I was rather hoping that there was actually some useful "secret" there that you might reveal.

Now for some serious "weekday" hat questions:
1.It appears that particular sects all wear nearly identical hats in regards to style, shape, dimensions, ribbon, edge, flange and bash. Who determines this? Is it actually written down somewhere?
2.Do all of the weekday hats always have a bound brim edge?
3.Why only black? Is this actually written down somewhere by someone, as well?
4.I have heard, and the photographic evidence that I have seen seems to support this, that the fashion of wearing wide-brimmed "fedoras", as seen in your first two photographs and by the two young men in Blackthorn's first photograph, only dates from approximately the late 1940s. Is this definitely so, and, if so, how did this particular "fashion" get its start?

For number 2, it'll vary by community. I can't recall non-bound edges off the top of my head, but that's not to say they're not worn.

The answers for 1 and 3 kind of fit under one response: No, it's not a written law per se. Clothing choice falls under a general rule about modesty in dress and behavior, however, so the choice of dark clothing reflects a conservative attitude toward those things. You dress the way you do in order to be part of the community, to not stand out in an immodest way, and so you don't need it written down. It's just all around you. That's not to say that people don't "show off" in one way or another: a really nice hat, for instance, or custom-tailored clothing, and if you look at some of the clothing Orthodox women wear, you can see that while it's conservative, there is a lot of style and fashion there.

Quite right about 4. You can find pictures into the 70s and 80s of men wearing the stingiest of brims for their black fedoras, so some of that style does come and go. For Hasidim, your clothing choices will reflect what the leader of your community wears, so when the Lubavitcher Rebbe, for instance, started wearing wider brimmed hats, his Hasidim started following suit.

 

[H Weinstein]

Thanks for that info. Saw lots of those black fedoras, especially, when I worked in mid-town Manhattan, near the Diamond and Garment Districts.

I actually am Jewish (though not religious at all), but when I converted one of my black western Akubras into a fedora, my first thought was: "I look like an Orthodox Jew!" I decided the look wasn't for me, so the hat went back to western.

Also reminds me of two movies featuring hat culture-confusion scenes: 1) THE FRISCO KID (from '79, I think), starring Gene Wilder as a rabbi from eastern Europe making a cross-country trip in the late 1800s, with Harrison Ford as the cowboy helping him get there safely. There's a scene where Gene Wilder's character see Amish farmers and thinks they're Chasidic Jews. 2) In WITNESS (1985?), oddly also starring Harrison Ford, there's a scene where a little Amish boy sees Chasidic Jews in the Philly train station and mistakes them for Amish.

 

[Lotsahats]

I pass through an Orthodox neighborhood near my sisters house, so I see lots of fedoras. Once while walking, I was tempted to say, "Nice hats gentlemen", especially since one fellow had one on that fit him perfectly. Some look too tall for the wearer IMHO (speaking 'strictly' from a style point of view and nothing more).

Anyway, I refrained from commenting, since I was not sure how it would be perceived. So in your opinion, would the comment have been appreciated or taken the wrong way?

A sincere compliment given sincerely would probably be taken the right way. I imagine you might get a "Thanks" in reply, and if you're wesring a hat, too, maybe even a conversation.

 

[g.durand]

Aaron, thanks for starting the thread. The insights into the hat-wearing habits of Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox Jews is a nice addition to the knowledge base here.

 

[moontheloon]

As for "looking" Jewish, it's pretty much only from outsiders that you'd hear this comment. A styled beard or longer hair will be an instant indication to those in the know.

A

I have been asked by outsiders and Orthodox

then again I have also been asked by Indian men if I am Sikh

these are all multiple occasions

anyway... such a really info packed thread ... thank you so much

 

[Genuine Classic Gangster]

For most of us, the broad-brimmed black fedora is the one that causes the most, "Hey, are you Jewish?" responses.

I am not Jewish or Amish, but wearing fedoras and overcoats causes me to get asked "Are you a Jew?" or "Are you Amish?" at least a few times every winter. That's happened to me while I was wearing black fedoras, brown fedoras, navy fedoras and green fedoras. A lot more people than a few probably thought I was a Jew in their minds than who have actually spoken up about it to me.

Therefore, I presume that many people in the general public stereotype all fedora wearers today as Jews because they assume that fedora wearing is now something that only Jews do.

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Many thanks for your comprehensive and accurate description of the headgear worn by Hasidic.
I have finally seen and almost completely understood the meaning of hats that here in Italy, where the Jewish communities are small and fully integrated into the italian costumes, it's hard to understand.
Thanks to Charlie for the link that exemplifies even more meanings of the Jews hats.
My only European experience was in Antwerp where, in the diamond district I saw, a few years ago, a number of hats that were similar or identical to those that have graciously shown.
In Italy they are really rare. Thanks Aaron

 

[hatophile]

In my neck of the woods, black hat and beard are more likely to be mistaken as "Amish".

Thanks for the tutorial Aaron. I, like others here enjoy learning about other cultures, religions, customs. If hat wearing is involved, even more so...

 

[philosophy101]

On occasion the question of Jewish hats comes up, and since an off-topic post I made in a different thread generated a little interest, I'll share more here. Ignore it if you want; ask me any questions you want.

Realistically, when we're talking about black hats worn by Jews, we're talking only about the most Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox groups; the largest Jewish streams in the United States, Conservative and Reform Judaism have no tradition of hat-wearing, and even the Modern Orthodox generally do not wear hats (beside the kippah, or yarmulke, the skullcap men tend to wear).

For most of us, the broad-brimmed black fedora is the one that causes the most, "Hey, are you Jewish?" responses.

Tending to be 3"+ in brim, these black fedoras are not uncommon in traditional Orthodox communities or among a group of Hasidim called Chabad Lubavitch. They tend to be Borsalinos or Huckels (or other non-specific Czech/Polish hatmakers), and they're just fedoras. Mine's a Borsalino with a 3.5-ish" brim. A hat like this will set you back anywhere from $100-$400.

You'll notice the wide brim and a relatively high crown; brims tend to have a pretty good snap in the front, although they can be flanged any way you'd like.

Next, let's look at a type of hat called a "hoiche" or high-crowned hat. "Hoiche" is Yiddish for high. Most Hasidim wear a higher hat like this, with only a few of the courts favoring the lower-crowned "flacha" style of hat ("flacha" is Yiddish for flat).

You can see here the long nap of the felt and the stand-up bound-brim:

This one is made in China and imported through Brooklyn. The hat is really, really stiff, more like a bowler rather than a fedora. These hats are made to sit higher on the head than a fedora might, so keep that in mind if you're ever thinking of getting one. The resting line on your head plus the hard felt means they're not forgiving size-wise.

You can see how the ribbon cuts into the nap of the felt, making it look like a belt almost. The flacha hat is very similar, but with about 2" of crown taken off. These hats will run you $50-$200.

The final hat you might have seen or heard about is called a shtreimel. These are very furry, very special hats usually only worn by the Ultra-Orthodox, and only on Friday night into Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath, or on Jewish holidays.

Made of fox fur on the outer round part and on the inner part, the shtreimel looks like a crown, according to some stories. Between the inner fur and the outer fur is a firm band of felt on to which the outer fox fur is placed to give the hat shape and structure. The inside, you can see, is a sort of velvet-felt combination.

Shtreimels are also worn higher on the head than a fedora. If you get one new--which I most certainly did not--you'll pay anywhere from $1500 to $5000 for one of these hats. Used ones come up occasionally on auction sites.

Remember, most Jews in the U.S., and indeed, non-Orthodox Jews throughout the world don't wear hats like these--or hats at all, truth be told.

So there you go! Hope that helps, and if you have questions, please feel free to let me know.

A

I've always wondered why the custom amongst orthodox Jews who wear fedoras seems to be to wear it very high on the head. It looks as if they fit their hats one or even two sizes smaller than is typical amongst non-orthodox fedora wearers. Any insight into this, Aaron?

 

[suitedcboy]

With a touch of flanging you could pass the Amish hats off as Nevada Basin Buckaroo headgear.

Love this insight into these niches of the hat wearing world.

 

[hatophile]

With a touch of flanging you could pass the Amish hats off as Nevada Basin Buckaroo headgear.

Love this insight into these niches of the hat wearing world.

And different Amish sects wear their hats differently. For instance, in my pic above, they are wearing a telescope crease. In my area, the hats more resemble a black BOTP with a rounded crown. Others use a center dent. I don't see many
C-crown or diamond shapes, maybe they do those in other parts of the country.

 

[hatsRme]

You must be thinking of Shipshewana Shapes, Perry. They're Amish and Mennonite trendsetters around there!

 

[hatophile]

Shipshewana Shapers, our hats are Ship-shape!

 

[scottyrocks]

I've always wondered why the custom amongst orthodox Jews who wear fedoras seems to be to wear it very high on the head. It looks as if they fit their hats one or even two sizes smaller than is typical amongst non-orthodox fedora wearers. Any insight into this, Aaron?

Often the hat is worn on top of the yarmulke, so it sits up high on the head. The ultra-Orthodox often wear both because one head covering is not considered holy enough.

Also, when referring to more than one person, the word 'Hasidim' is used.

 

[Bob Roberts]

I believe there is a hat vendor to the Jewish trade called "Yid Lids."

 

[-30-]

"The ultra-Orthodox often wear both because one head covering is not considered holy enough."
scottyrocks.

I don't think that you are wholly correct, in that the wearing of either/or both is just a sign of Religious Respect;
when that hat is removed, the kipa remains.

Regards,
J T

 

[Lotsahats]

I've always wondered why the custom amongst orthodox Jews who wear fedoras seems to be to wear it very high on the head. It looks as if they fit their hats one or even two sizes smaller than is typical amongst non-orthodox fedora wearers. Any insight into this, Aaron?

You know, I'd say it's just the way the custom of hat-wearing has worked out in these communities. The young man wears his hat higher on his head because that's the way his father wears it, and so on.

Often the hat is worn on top of the yarmulke, so it sits up high on the head. The ultra-Orthodox often wear both because one head covering is not considered holy enough.

Also, when referring to more than one person, the word 'Hasidim' is used.

Wearing a hat over a kippah is a holdout to a time when a modestly-dressed man wouldn't be seen in public without a hat; thus one wears a kippah out of fear of Heaven, and one wears the hat to be modest. For some groups, a double head-covering is required during prayer, and the hat can assist with this--but the prayer shawl can also be pulled over the head like a hood, accomplishing the same. Let me repeat: we're talking about the habits of only a small percentage of American Jews.

Quite right, Scotty: Hasid and Hasidim--as long as they are Hasidic. Otherwise, Jew and Jews works fine for anyone who is Jewish.

Cheers,
A

 

[scottyrocks]

"The ultra-Orthodox often wear both because one head covering is not considered holy enough."
scottyrocks.

I don't think that you are wholly correct, in that the wearing of either/or both is just a sign of Religious Respect;
when that hat is removed, the kipa remains.

Regards,
J T

Well, this was one of the explanations given to me when I was studying with an orthodox organization. It seems logical there are other reasons, as well.

 

[Joshua London]

I happily stumbled across this old thread. I know it’s been nearly half a decade, but if Aaron is still active on this forum, I’d love to know: which style of Borsalino fedora are you wearing in that photo?

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I happily stumbled across this old thread. I know it’s been nearly half a decade, but if Aaron is still active on this forum, I’d love to know: which style of Borsalino fedora are you wearing in that photo?

I don’t know that Aaron is still active here.

I have several similar (black, wide brim, made for the religious market) Borsalinos of recent manufacture:

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