Has anyone seen a Golden Era leather jacket made from Horween CXL FQHH or Steer

[Baron Kurtz]

What I find with the older German "bull hide" is that it's very often still stiff, even today. Even in very heavily worn examples.

It's the closest thing I've seen to the heavy Aero leather. (I meant above that I don't think I'll ever see anything vintage that is not German or Russian that comes close to the weight of an Aero jacket.)

 

[simonc]

"Steer Hide" is the thickest hide of all.

 

[Sloan1874]

The heaviest Aero leather I've had a shot at is the tan-colour super-heavy steer used to make the defunct Hippy jacket. Was unbelievable stuff, could hardly bend me arms in it when I tried one on!

 

[Plumbline]

I have to say I've had a few of the Connolly hide Aero Highwayman jackets .. in fact still have a very early one and Ken actually purchased one from me on ebay about 18 months ago. They were IMHO the "Original" Highwayman. Struck through soft yet tough hide which developed amazing patina and was easy and comfortable to wear. The only issue I had was the sizing which was a bit strange to say the least with a 44" fitting sometimes like a 40" and sometimes like a 46" !

The modern CXL FQHH and STEER ones are a VERY different beast ... not better or worse ... just different. The Connolly was a MUCH more "authentic" hide much more like original 1950's jackets in terms of hand, drape and feeling when worn.

I'd LOVE for some of the exceptional manufacturers to be producing jackets with a much more authentic hand .... I'm not saying they shouldn't produce CXL FQHH jackets, I would happily wear both but I do like to have a choice. I had Aero make me up a Longshoreman back in 2004 in slightly heavier A2 type veg tanned seal Horse .... it was a stunning jacket and comfortable right from the get go. I sold it on a year or so ago as it was "just" too big ... only "just" after I had it relined in blanket wool ( as opposed to shearling which made it feel like a bit of a puffa jacket). That leather in a Highwayman would be stunning IMHO.

Having handled many .. I'm of a view that many of the authentic 1930's and 40's jackets were not in fact chrome tanned but veg tanned and I think the weight and hand of the A2 steer and Horse is much more in keeping with many of the original Utility jackets from the 30's and 40's. 3oz is probably as heavy as I have seen in US and UK vintage jackets and indeed 2 - 2.5 oz seems to have been the norm. It appears that even early motorcycle jackets were often no heavier than 3oz from the early Buco and Schott jackets I've seen.

Great discussion though ... on a topic which has been bugging me for a while

 

[Seb Lucas]

The vintage jackets I've seen over here were never thicker than 2.5 oz, I'd say and never felt particularly heavy when you picked them up.

 

[Edward]

The vintage jackets I've seen over here were never thicker than 2.5 oz, I'd say and never felt particularly heavy when you picked them up.

Unsurprising, given the climate, surely?

 

[nightandthecity]

For what it's worth I'll add my voice in support of the others here. In the 80s and 90s I was a fulltime vintage/WW2 aeronautica dealer and must have handled hundreds of mid-20th century leather jackets - mostly British and American, with some European. Most were much, much lighter than the leathers normally used by Aero AL and LW. In fact I'm pretty sure the only jackets to come anywhere near the modern CXLFQHH weight would be some of the US police jackets, which were designed to withstand a knife attack. I personally find these modern heavyweight jackets both uncomfortable and impractical (though they certainly look great), one reason I prefer to wear original period jackets. TBH I suspect there is some sort of macho thing driving the market.

 

[Deleted member 16736]

I believe this issue has been raised from time to time, and is a pet-peeve of mine. I've owned an FQHH and a Steer CXL jacket, and found both uncomfortably heavy to the point of almost being unwearable. Part of the problem is that Horween is so big and the demand for FQHH so great (for whatever reason) that there is little alternative at this point. It's a shame, because it really isn't suited for a jacket, in my opinion: it's too heavy, it crinkles, and it doesn't drape well.

 

[ButteMT61]

It's no more "macho" than heavy jeans or heavy canvas shirts. etc.
Some people - me included - like heavy fabrics and leathers. Maybe smaller guys don't like it as much but I hate light, flimsy fabrics and I don't like thin leather. And if you're talking a riding jacket, then it's 100% common sense. Thicker leather will save your ass when you go down. And eventually, we all do.

 

[technovox]

I went for the thick leather when I ordered the custom Johnson Leather M200 with the 4 oz CXL. Beautiful leather, beautiful texture, just a gorgeous hide all around. But finally I had to admit to myself it was excessive in weight and a bit stiff and uncomfortable for every day wear, given the temperate climate here, and the fact I don't ride. And I'm even thinking my 2 Aero's in the 3oz FQHH might be a little more than I need. So more and more, I'm coming around to the less heavier horsehides. And I'm starting to think that the perfect compromise for me, at least for everyday wear (but maybe not for motorcycle riders) is that Japanese shinki horsehide. My Himel cafe racer has it, and it really is a beautiful hide in texture, wrinkling and character... like what you would get from thicker leathers. And yet at approximately 2.5 oz, it is flexible and very comfortable to wear. Consequently, I've been eyeing that Goodwear Ventura in the dark Japanese seal horsehide. I think those pictures of Butte's Ventura really won me over!

 

[ButteMT61]

I went for the thick leather when I ordered the custom Johnson Leather M200 with the 4 oz CXL. Beautiful leather, beautiful texture, just a gorgeous hide all around. But finally I had to admit to myself it was excessive in weight and a bit stiff and uncomfortable for every day wear, given the temperate climate here, and the fact I don't ride. And I'm even thinking my 2 Aero's in the 3oz FQHH might be a little more than I need. So more and more, I'm coming around to the less heavier horsehides. And I'm starting to think that the perfect compromise for me, at least for everyday wear (but maybe not for motorcycle riders) is that Japanese shinki horsehide. My Himel cafe racer has it, and it really is a beautiful hide in texture, wrinkling and character... like what you would get from thicker leathers. And yet at approximately 2.5 oz, it is flexible and very comfortable to wear. Consequently, I've been eyeing that Goodwear Ventura in the dark Japanese seal horsehide. I think those pictures of Butte's Ventura really won me over!

Of course that Shinki Ventura is the perfect SoCal jacket. I can't lie, the Aero FQHH HBD gets worn a lot less here. That's why we all need a closet filled with different jackets for every occasion lol

 

[technovox]

Of course that Shinki Ventura is the perfect SoCal jacket. I can't lie, the Aero FQHH HBD gets worn a lot less here. That's why we all need a closet filled with different jackets for every occasion lol

I knew there was a good reason for feeding this addiction!

 

[Capesofwrath]

I think that the idea that you need very thick leather to protect you if you drop a road bike is a bit OTT. I haven't owned a bike now for a couple of decades but when I used to ride a lot in the sixties and seventies I mostly used the same jacket, a Lewis Leathers Corsair. That seemed pretty sturdy to me at the time, but handling similar examples years later it now appears to be a much lighter hide when compared to the stuff I often wear for leisure now.

It's abrasion resistance that's needed and that can be had very well with light hides like goat which pre war racers used a fair bit. No leather will save you from severe impact damage and that's where armour has increasingly come into use in recent decades. The fastest I ever came off was about eighty and I just accepted the inevitable and laid it down and kicked away from it. The bike went on to hit something but I didn't, and the jacket only had a bad scuff on the shoulder where I touched down first before I rolled a couple of times and then slid on. Fairly lightweight by today's standards or not it did what it was meant to do, and if I had hit what the bike went on to hit it wouldn't have mattered what weight of hide I was wearing I would still have been badly injured.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I agree. I had a very heavy HH Aero MC jacket for awhile and wore it on a 700-750 mile round trip. It actually wore me out with the heavy stiffness. I told myself..'never again'. However..I don't care to dress like speedracer either. I make a compromise between protection and comfort. Been riding since 1964 and have never laid one down..and I put on quite a few miles per year. Yet I have ridden with those that seem to lay theirs down at least once a year. Some really need a steel cage around them rather than thick leather. One always wears a full face..armor..gloves..steel toed boots and rides like he is on a race course every time he throws a leg over. So far he has had several broken bones..dislocated shoulder...and requires a new full face helmet almost yearly. Actually he has no business on a bike because his thrill for riding outweighs any alertness of his surroundings...but he declares he just loves to ride..so there ya go.
HD

 

[ButteMT61]

I've been riding for 39 years. Two get-offs after over 25 years were a shock to me and both on the hot SoCal tarmac. Only thing that kept me from the morgue or at least the skin graft center was the thick leather jackets and helmet and heavy riding jeans. I've not seen any goat I'd trust my body to in a roll. BTW, both of my incidents were out of my control - spilled (invisible) anti-freeze on a blind corner and falling rocks on another blind corner that appeared literally as I got there. But to each their own. Wear what you like and makes you happy and safe. I'm not about to tell someone else what the right hide(s) is for them.

 

[Capesofwrath]

Tried not to make a habit of it but it things happen particularly when other road users seem oblivious to bikes sometimes. They can look right at you and still drive out in front of you.

A friend of mine from years ago was notorious for stepping off other people's bikes. He hated being on the back of one and he would just jump off if he thought it was looking iffy. He was riding pillion on someone's brand new Laverda once, which was the latest bike to have at the time and very expensive. They came over a blind hump bridge a bit too fast and the road was taken up by a truck on the other side. He took one look and jumped off and the rider ended up losing it and doing a fair bit of damage. He was not a happy man and blamed said friend for causing the accident, while friend claimed it was going to happen anyway and he just wasn't going to be involved.

I wasn't there but knowing him my guess is that he didn't give him much of a chance and baled out a bit too soon.

 

[ButteMT61]

We actually had people on Mulholland and vicinity putting oil/coolant on the corners to "get back" at the bikers with loud bikes. I went down in the middle of that whole thing and I believe I was one of those that got nailed. Both times I had new bikes and both times, luckily it was only cosmetic damage. I cracked my forearm on the worst of the two, but otherwise walked away. I was one that always wore/wear gear, but never believed I'd go down until I did. Just glad I had my best gear on at the time(s). I've pretty much stopped any regular riding now in SoCal due to the texting fools in cages. Just not worth it. Only riding I do now is with the local Brit bike club a couple times a year...

 

[Seb Lucas]

Unsurprising, given the climate, surely?

No Edward, the vintage jackets were all American or British makes. In fact the local jackets that they made here recently are too thick for my taste - 3.5 oz cow.

 

[Seb Lucas]

It's abrasion resistance that's needed and that can be had very well with light hides like goat which pre war racers used a fair bit.

The info I got form Langlitz some years ago is that goat is the most abrasion resistant of hides, hence it's suitability for riding and why they use and recommend it. Remember too that the best goat hide is thick and very sturdy. Most people think of the thinner, softer chrome tanned stuff used on G1's and other mass produced jackets. My Al goat half-belt is very thick and heavy - I'd say 3oz and it still isn't broken in months after getting it.

 

[Capesofwrath]

Really, I didn't think goat ran quite that heavy. You must have got a particularly heavy one. I've got an AL black goat roadster which has also not fully broken in, I don't wear leather jackets that much where I live now. It's more like 2.5 oz I should think, about the same as an EL M422 I used to have.

The AL goat is nice though.