Hall and Hall CO. Hats

[guitarmasta12]

I have a fantastic Hall and Hall Co. Derby that I want to date my self. The problem is that I don't now anything about this maker and I can't find a lot about them online. I am also restoring it a bit. Any of you gentlemen experts on old school Hall and Hall CO. hats? Here's some pics of the hat. I also have the tag but, it fell off. The tag was black and it had gold numbers. They wore off to a green color.

 

[fedoracentric]

I so totally get an 1890 to 1910 vibe off that one. I hope you find out because I'd like to know, too.

 

[guitarmasta12]

I so totally get an 1890 to 1910 vibe off that one. I hope you find out because I'd like to know, too.

Wow really?! The only problem is that there is a few cracks towards the front of the crown. I'm gonna fix it with clear glue and with some of the felt from inside the hat.

 

[Joshbru3]

I so totally get an 1890 to 1910 vibe off that one.

Why?

That derby says 1920's/1930's to me. I own several 1890's/1900's derbies and the proportions are not only drastically different than guitarmasta12's hat, but the printing font on the liner and reorder tag scream 20's/30's. There is no way to prove that until further research is done, but I have handled a ton of derbies from all eras and there is nothing about this hat that screams 1890's/1900's.

 

[Blackthorn]

All derbies look alike don't they? There may be microscopic differences, but....

 

[fedoracentric]

\

That derby says 1920's/1930's to me. \

You could be right. I didn't say it was from the 1890s-1910s and I did note I hope he finds out the true age.

 

[Joshbru3]

All derbies look alike don't they? There may be microscopic differences, but....

well...........

Though in the late 1800's and early 1900's styles changed drastically every couple of years, the characteristics of early derbies often do not show up in the 20's/30's where most derbies did all look very similar.

Here's an example:

Very Late 1890's Howard Derby

TALL and ROUND crown profile is very characteristic of early derbies




sweatband stitching is sewn OVER reed (not always the case, but very common is early hats)




The font on reorder tags and liners in the early derbies are also different





Late 1890's/Early 1900's Champion (Keith Brothers) Derby

sweatband stitching OVER reed




Tall/Round crown with large swooping brim( very popular in the first 5-7 years of the 1900's)







Here's another variation of an early derby........short round crown with very short brim

1890s Baird and Levi Brown Derby


sweatband stiching sewn OVER reed





Short round crown combined with short brim

 

[Joshbru3]

You could be right. I didn't say it was from the 1890s-1910s and I did note I hope he finds out the true age.

I know, I am not accusing you. I am simply saying, that many people assume derbies are much older than most of them we see really are. The true pre-1910 derbies often do not show up and many we see on ebay are from the 20's/30's.

 

[mayserwegener]

All derbies look alike don't they? There may be microscopic differences, but....

They have a similar look but that is where it ends. How many old stiff felts have you held in hand?

 

[mayserwegener]

I know, I am not accusing you. I am simply saying, that many people assume derbies are much older than most of them we see really are. The true pre-1910 derbies often do not show up and many we see on ebay are from the 20's/30's.

This is also the case for Euro stiff felts (my preferred term).

 

[Joshbru3]

This is also the case for Euro stiff felts (my preferred term).

Thank you for your addition, Steve. I am not too familiar with Euro stiff felts, but after reading through every American Hatter issue in the last 2 years, I can usually pick out certain traits of American derbies that indicate them to be older than 20's/30's. Do European styling trends in derbies follow fairly closely with American versions pre-1920?

 

[mayserwegener]

Josh, I think they are pretty similar pre and post 1920. You probably see more wool or wool blends in Europe. Also some unusual finishes and differences in construction materials / methods. I think the big trend on both sides was to make lighter weight models to compete against the fast charging soft felts.

 

[guitarmasta12]

Why?

That derby says 1920's/1930's to me. I own several 1890's/1900's derbies and the proportions are not only drastically different than guitarmasta12's hat, but the printing font on the liner and reorder tag scream 20's/30's. There is no way to prove that until further research is done, but I have handled a ton of derbies from all eras and there is nothing about this hat that screams 1890's/1900's.

To be honest. When I first saw it and saw the tag, the liner, I thought it was 30s. I wasn't sure. And I don't know about Hall and Hall CO. I know alot of the more common brands like Knox or Dobbs or even SLS. So I didnt know what to look for and this is my first derby. I knew it was a great find as well. My great grandfather gave me this and 3 fedoras.

 

[pjt113]

Hall & Hall Fedora?

Anyone ever heard of Hall & Hall? Picked up this hat at a estate sale and have it for sale on eBay, just wondering about the brand. It also says waterfelted on the liner

 

[buler]

Pete, pictures of the liner, sweatband marks, and any tags behind the sweatband will help for identification. Looks nice!

B

 

[Rick Blaine]

Mine. Now a teardrop snapbrim.



I know nothing of the company tho', nice enough felt. Rather scarce I'd say. That one is quite nice. :thumb:

 

[pjt113]

Here's a couple more pix, no tags behind sweat, quite a bit of wear on the interior, I think it is a gorgeous color hat is from Milwaukee