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Before the Churchill I did not get it, now I do. There is no comparison. That being said the $5000 stetson might be very much hand finished and they mix in chinchilla. I believe the box is what the hatters put the felt on, the liners etc.I think some of them buy from companies that sell them. I have one ofarrell, sort of akubra like but better felt looks better to but sturdy.. so the $5000 stetson probably cannot be as good as a Churchill 50, and many others. Now resistol has a double eagle cowboy for $2500.list. They take the best pieces of the beaver fur and make the felt from that so you are breaking out of the mold here. I have never seen or touched one. Larry mahan makes a 1000x imperial, no beaver just mink so this too breaks mold. Probably lot more mink furriers running around than beaver but felt makers? It could be a superior hat or junk?I think this too is $2500 list. Mink could take weather but not like beaver.
I intend to stay vintage cause you can really know what you are gonna get versus how good is this Stetson 500x. If I’m gonna just bum around in bright sun, rain dust etc I would not want my great vintage hats on (when I have them) but I would take an akubra in a heart beat. I even have some waterproof wool beaters I can use. If it was risk of rain I would stuff a plastic hat cover in my pocket if I wore a special hat. Wearing a high end vintage hat in rain because it can take it is like wearing a $40,000 Rolex divers watch to actually dive with instead of $100 timed or Casio.
I spent a lot on modern westerns. I have them, they look good, are not that good but look it, and they last long time. There are no holy grail modern hats except maybe those two I mentioned. I had a mink lined jacket once and I think was not supposed to get wet. Had a nutria one too reversible with cashmere, both from saks fifth and I think these would be a disaster in rain. Never had a nutria or mink felt hat. Would find it interesting but not for big bucks.
So now I look for holy grail vintage. Hard search.
Any places better to look other than eBay?
Thanks for all your help
Ken
recently had 2 positive experiences on the bay with you. I think fri - hold the suitcase to save shipping costs.. the Churchill 50 I got ruined me. You guys here are right vintage pre 1960 only way to go. I started with 50’s fedoras which were easier to get pre Covid years. Then I did some westerns. I then went on akubra run. For the money good rugged hat. They do not look good across a room but good in rain and sturdy. Then I went to beaver Stetson resistol and kept trying to get to the higher end stuff. Never got over 200x. The cowboy wearers have no knowledge or understanding of what a good hat is. The akubra styling stinks, the rich look of a modern stetson 6x is missing, just like a rugged everyday beater kind of hat. When it comes to looks out of the box a new Mahan or Stetson is tops. Bunny fur is what it is.Howdy! Sounds like you’re a true enthusiast and probably have a lot more experience with high end modern westerns than most of us here.
You used the word “box” a couple times in a context I’m not familiar with are you referring to the crown or something else?
The tastes of the western hat buying public has changed over the years. Most of the current market would not be at all happy with a high end western from the 1940s or earlier.
Almost all custom hat makers use beaver felt made by just two companies…and there is a third that is making some inroads. None of the modern felt can be made into hats that exactly mimic the pre-war high end hats. The same goes for those high “X” count top end modern factory hats; although, it’s also a product of what the customers want and very few want they type of felf found in the vintage hats.
There is only so much that can be done with a hat, any hat. It’s not as though the hatters can make a better hat but they don’t want to invest the time because they’ll price themselves out of this market. More time, effort, specialized tooling, etc. will not get you a better hat…unless you’re talking about a poor hatter to begin with. When one of my favorite hatters finishes a $500 custom beaver western it’s because it’s as good as it’s going to get. I’ve also test to see a $2,000 modern custom that matches one of those $500 hats when it comes to making a vintage type of hat. Don’t think that I’m saying that all quality custom hatters can make the same hats. I’ve found hatters who can approximate the vintage felt better than others, but they can’t match it due to the felt they are starting with. I’ve found a hatter that can get very close with fedoras, but the western hat bodies the felters supply just aren’t as conducive. You can get a more vintage-like hat from modern felt, but I’ve never seen anyone get close to duplicating it. There is just no way to message a pre-war hat out of modern felt.
I’ve not been overly impressed with most of the Twenty-Fives I’ve seen. This is more a product of the era they were made as they have mostly been late 1950s or 1960s. Twenty is a more common designation for dress hats (fedoras etc.), but there are some in the western line. The only Twenty Open Road I’ve owned was a great hat. The early 1950s and earlier fedora Twentys are very nice and to my way of thinking they are better than modern custom fedoras costing $1,500 or more (and who doesn’t love a Cavanagh edge?).
In my opinion, a 1940s or earlier Stetson 7X, or even the lower but rarer 5X, will be a better hat than a modern $5,000 Stetson. I’d also bet that the owners of the $5,000 hat would disagree.
I’ve had two Churchill Fifty hats and one Churchill 100 pass through my hands. I’ve never seen a modern hat that matches them. I recently had an early Stetson One Hundred come to me and that hat was phenomenal, much better than the late 1950s and early 1960s One Hundreds I’ve had before, and the later One Hundreds were still superior to the modern 500X etc. hats I’ve handled. Then again, this is because I like the attributes of vintage hats and the majority of modern western hat buyers do not.
I’ve owned a half dozen O’Farrell custom hats (all secondhand purchases that I’ve sold on) and even the earlier ones have not impressed me, but others love them. It depends what you like. My nicest modern custom western was made by Montecristi Hatswoks in New Mexico. It’s a fantastic hat, but it’s a totally different hat than a vintage hat. I don’t compare them as they were made in different eras to meet the preferences of different customers. I’ve had two customs by Butch Dorer and I’ve not been impressed, not to say they are “bad” hats, but just not what I ideally want.
Finding pre-war westerns in good shape is a real challenge and usually requires either deep pockets or a lot of time and often both. That said, I’ll take a pristine 1920s Stetson No. 1 Quality (a low end hat) over any of the modern 100-50000X hats. A nice, albeit small sized, Churchill 100 sold last week at auction for less than $200 with its fitted suitcase; it’s a 1950s or ‘60s hat, but as you know they are special hats.
I live in both worlds when it comes to westerns. I own several modern hats and I wear them regularly. I have a place for them. They are the tool I want for some circumstances. I’ve even commissioned customs knowing the felt was going to be very stiff and not at all what I like about vintage hats. I understand why the modern western hat buyer likes this type of felt. It has its place. However, for most of my purposes and with my lifestyle, the vintage hats are what I normally prefer.
Good luck hunting for your vintage hats….just stay away from those in 7 ⅝ or 7 ¾ hats.
Before the Churchill I did not get it, now I do. There is no comparison. That being said the $5000 stetson might be very much hand finished and they mix in chinchilla. I believe the box is what the hatters put the felt on, the liners etc.I think some of them buy from companies that sell them. I have one ofarrell, sort of akubra like but better felt looks better to but sturdy.. so the $5000 stetson probably cannot be as good as a Churchill 50, and many others. Now resistol has a double eagle cowboy for $2500.list. They take the best pieces of the beaver fur and make the felt from that so you are breaking out of the mold here. I have never seen or touched one. Larry mahan makes a 1000x imperial, no beaver just mink so this too breaks mold. Probably lot more mink furriers running around than beaver but felt makers? It could be a superior hat or junk?I think this too is $2500 list. Mink could take weather but not like beaver.
I intend to stay vintage cause you can really know what you are gonna get versus how good is this Stetson 500x. If I’m gonna just bum around in bright sun, rain dust etc I would not want my great vintage hats on (when I have them) but I would take an akubra in a heart beat. I even have some waterproof wool beaters I can use. If it was risk of rain I would stuff a plastic hat cover in my pocket if I wore a special hat. Wearing a high end vintage hat in rain because it can take it is like wearing a $40,000 Rolex divers watch to actually dive with instead of $100 timed or Casio.
I spent a lot on modern westerns. I have them, they look good, are not that good but look it, and they last long time. There are no holy grail modern hats except maybe those two I mentioned. I had a mink lined jacket once and I think was not supposed to get wet. Had a nutria one too reversible with cashmere, both from saks fifth and I think these would be a disaster in rain. Never had a nutria or mink felt hat. Would find it interesting but not for big bucks.
So now I look for holy grail vintage. Hard search.
Any places better to look other than eBay?
Thanks for all your help
Ken
