Greg Field vs Himel vs Freewheeler vs Goodwear SHINKI

[Marc mndt]

I wish a thread like this existed before, it shows so clearly the vast variances between hides.

What would you have done differently, now that you know?

Unless you're able to select the hides yourself, there's nothing you could do right?

 

[TheDonEffect]

What would you have done differently, now that you know?

Unless you're able to select the hides yourself, there's nothing you could do right?

Well I'm wiser for it, always good to be an informed consumer. Well I sorta knew there were variations, and varying degrees of quality, anything like this will never be uniformed. But I think the spirit of this thread was started because maybe there's an inclination to think that different makers get different access to product, sorta like a good longstanding steakhouse has a direct line to the cattle auction, so the stuff they get will be better on average than the stuff we get at the local supermarket. So a thread like this clears it up, it could be easily confused that one maker has leather with certain characteristics vs another maker, perhaps one even being "better" but this thread illustrates clearly that it isn't necessarily the case. I imagine though that there is some selection, and some makers as some members here described allow you to choose the exact hide you want. Which makes sense, since I could go to an upscale grocer but I'll still look through the produce to select a better product.

But to your question, I could've been more exacting in my requests, or even ask to see or select the actual hide that will eventually be my jacket, like I wanted more of the left or right jacket (referencing the post I quoted earlier). Some members here will even request to see or photo of the exact leather. For MTO situations, and paying the sums these jackets command, it may be worth considering moving forward considering the wide variations.

It also helps explain why certain jackets I see posted here really stand out despite being from the same maker, model, and leather.

 

[sweetfights]

Well I'm wiser for it, always good to be an informed consumer. Well I sorta knew there were variations, and varying degrees of quality, anything like this will never be uniformed. But I think the spirit of this thread was started because maybe there's an inclination to think that different makers get different access to product, sorta like a good longstanding steakhouse has a direct line to the cattle auction, so the stuff they get will be better on average than the stuff we get at the local supermarket. So a thread like this clears it up, it could be easily confused that one maker has leather with certain characteristics vs another maker, perhaps one even being "better" but this thread illustrates clearly that it isn't necessarily the case. I imagine though that there is some selection, and some makers as some members here described allow you to choose the exact hide you want. Which makes sense, since I could go to an upscale grocer but I'll still look through the produce to select a better product.

But to your question, I could've been more exacting in my requests, or even ask to see or select the actual hide that will eventually be my jacket, like I wanted more of the left or right jacket (referencing the post I quoted earlier). Some members here will even request to see or photo of the exact leather. For MTO situations, and paying the sums these jackets command, it may be worth considering moving forward considering the wide variations.

It also helps explain why certain jackets I see posted here really stand out despite being from the same maker, model, and leather.

It is a learning process finding out what you like and where and how to obtain it.

 

[BloodEagle]

Posted these in another thread, so apols for the duplication - but to compliment with all the other beautiful examples posted already, here is some unfiltered McCoys Buco J24L Shinki

 

[sweetfights]

Posted these in another thread, so apols for the duplication - but to compliment with all the other beautiful examples posted already, here is some unfiltered McCoys Buco J24L Shinki
View attachment 304297 View attachment 304298

Very, very nice. Tremendously nice Shinki. You can almost smell the leather from here!

 

[jonesy86]

I like anything GW.

I am not sure how JC selects his leather, but I bet he knows pretty much what he is looking for, and maybe cannot always get what he wants. My guess is that he is frequently trying out new and different tanneries, types of leather, and kinds of tanning. I think he regularly uses specific tanneries that he has been working with for years, and likes to mix it up and experiment with different hides, or at least different batches of a particular hide such as Shinki, from the same tanneries. I have GW jackets in Shinki, Horween, Italian horse hide, 2 different cow hides, Indian goat skin, and Capeskin. These are all very different obviously, but I like them all for different reasons. It is hard for me to separate the cut and style of jacket, from the tannery and hide used, not to mention the maker. It is really fun for me to have the same Jacket, the GW Arcadia in horsehide from two different tanneries. While I really like the Italian horsehide two-tone, I like the Shinki best. The Italian horse hide could be easily compared to Aero's Vincenza, but despite the variety of Shinki we see, if it is Shinki, you know it is going to be nice.

GW Arcadia-Shinki

GW Arcadia-Italian Horsehide

 

[sweetfights]

I like anything GW.

I am not sure how JC selects his leather, but I bet he knows pretty much what he is looking for, and maybe cannot always get what he wants. My guess is that he is frequently trying out new and different tanneries, types of leather, and kinds of tanning. I think he regularly uses specific tanneries that he has been working with for years, and likes to mix it up and experiment with different hides, or at least different batches of a particular hide such as Shinki, from the same tanneries. I have GW jackets in Shinki, Horween, Italian horse hide, 2 different cow hides, Indian goat skin, and Capeskin. These are all very different obviously, but I like them all for different reasons. It is hard for me to separate the cut and style of jacket, from the tannery and hide used, not to mention the maker. It is really fun for me to have the same Jacket, the GW Arcadia in horsehide from two different tanneries. While I really like the Italian horsehide two-tone, I like the Shinki best. The Italian horse hide could be easily compared to Aero's Vincenza, but despite the variety of Shinki we see, if it is Shinki, you know it is going to be nice.

GW Arcadia-Shinki
View attachment 304583

GW Arcadia-Italian Horsehide
View attachment 304584

Nice collection. I agree. John is an artisan. Not afraid to experiment. And Shinki never seems to disappoint me.

 

[Cornelius]

So, from some I read that their Shinki jacket soaks up rain like a sponge. But then other places - e.g., the Himel website - I read that Shinki horsehide is quite water repellent. Boring consideration, I know, but hey, I don't live in San Diego (sadly).

Is the difference here whether the Shinki hide is "oil-tan" or not?
Where does Oil Tannage fit on the Veg Tan to Chrome Tan spectrum?

 

[Leatherbirdsoul]

I only have one shinki jacket and therefore no comparison. But I like to contribute my pictures of this jacket.
Fieldleathers Shinki:
View attachment 303603 View attachment 303604 View attachment 303605 View attachment 303606 View attachment 303607 View attachment 303608

Hi
Is this the “Brown Pony” that Greg has in stock?

 

[marker2037]

Hi
Is this the “Brown Pony” that Greg has in stock?

No. This is the first shinki brown that Greg offered when he launched. I’m told he hasn’t ordered it again as he had a hard time matching up panels as it had a lot of variation.

 

[Marc mndt]

Black and brown pony

 

[Monitor]

So, from some I read that their Shinki jacket soaks up rain like a sponge. But then other places - e.g., the Himel website - I read that Shinki horsehide is quite water repellent. Boring consideration, I know, but hey, I don't live in San Diego (sadly).

Is the difference here whether the Shinki hide is "oil-tan" or not?
Where does Oil Tannage fit on the Veg Tan to Chrome Tan spectrum?

Again, Shinki (Hikaku) is the name of the tannery that produces some 50 + types of leather that are intended for a very wide range of purposes & are tanned accordingly. Some of which are thus vegetable tanned, some chrome tanned; some are more water repellent, some less, et cetera, et cetera.
Makers who say they're using Shinki don't really say anything at all. It is an information of no actual use which is exactly why we're reading so many conflicting observations about the so called "Shinki" jackets. They might as well be saying "We're using leather".

To get an answer to your question, you'd first have to find out the name of the specific product the maker in question has purchased from Shinki Hikaku tannery.

 

[Jin431]

Again, Shinki (Hikaku) is the name of the tannery that produces some 50 + types of leather that are intended for a very wide range of purposes & are tanned accordingly. Some of which are thus vegetable tanned, some chrome tanned; some are more water repellent, some less, et cetera, et cetera.
Makers who say they're using Shinki don't really say anything at all. It is an information of no actual use which is exactly why we're reading so many conflicting observations about the so called "Shinki" jackets. They might as well be saying "We're using leather".

To get an answer to your question, you'd first have to find out the name of the specific product the maker in question has purchased from Shinki Hikaku tannery.

Does anyone know if Shinki have a name/term for the Leathers they make like how Horween does?

 

[Canuck Panda]

There are only three types of Shinki horse fronts as far as I know.
Shinki standard, is the full aniline, naked hide, “see through dye”. This one can be as thick as 4oz for the bigger horse, but will most likely have harness scars and branding as larger horses are used for heavy work. Only Greg uses this, and black only, because the other colours will show scars due to the see through dye (like wood stain).
This is my brown Shinki standard, almost 4 oz, with branding marks:

The second type is the Vintage Waxed, I believe the marketing term for this is Oil Tanned. And the last variety would be Pigment, or teacore.
These two are marketed as more expensive products but they will not age like the “cheaper” full aniline. And they are usually thinner. Jacket maker will be able to produce more consistent products with these two hides because the paint finish covers up the scars. But if you don’t mind the scars like me, Shinki standard, full aniline, is the bomb!
I bought my Shinkis from this place. I will post my scarred jacket when it’s done.
https://shop.hashimotoindustry.com/en

 

[Jin431]

There are only three types of Shinki horse fronts as far as I know.
Shinki standard, is the full aniline, naked hide, “see through dye”. This one can be as thick as 4oz for the bigger horse, but will most likely have harness scars and branding as larger horses are used for heavy work. Only Greg uses this, and black only, because the other colours will show scars due to the see through dye (like wood stain).
This is my brown Shinki standard, almost 4 oz, with branding marks:
View attachment 343551
View attachment 343553
The second type is the Vintage Waxed, I believe the marketing term for this is Oil Tanned. And the last variety would be Pigment, or teacore.
These two are marketed as more expensive products but they will not age like the “cheaper” full aniline. And they are usually thinner. Jacket maker will be able to produce more consistent products with these two hides because the paint finish covers up the scars. But if you don’t mind the scars like me, Shinki standard, full aniline, is the bomb!
I bought my Shinkis from this place. I will post my scarred jacket when it’s done.
https://shop.hashimotoindustry.com/en

Got it, so Shinki is easier to understand because they just name the leather for how it's tanned/finished compared to Horween that has different names (CXL/Essex/Dublin/Vermont/Milan etc etc) for their different lines of leather.

I have the FL brown/black full aniline shinki and I think they look better than my black teacore shinki FL and certainly a lot thicker as well.

Thanks for sharing the link!

 

[Leatherbirdsoul]

I only have one shinki jacket and therefore no comparison. But I like to contribute my pictures of this jacket.
Fieldleathers Shinki:
View attachment 303603 View attachment 303604 View attachment 303605 View attachment 303606 View attachment 303607 View attachment 303608

Hi
Is this the “Brown Pony” that Greg has in stock?

Black and brown pony

View attachment 343438

Thank for posting the photo. The brown pony is certainly tempting. By chance, do you happen to know the tannage of the pony?

Recently, I impulse bought a jacket in “dark seal” Shinki, which should be arriving in a few weeks.
This thread exposed that I just jumped off a random cliff. Ha ha

 

[MrProper]

Is this the “Brown Pony” that Greg has in stock?

as marker already replied, no. it's a shame that Greg doesn't sell this leather anymore. it is great.

 

[Leatherbirdsoul]

as marker already replied, no. it's a shame that Greg doesn't sell this leather anymore. it is great.

Perhaps I misunderstand.

Yes, the brown of Marker’s jacket is gorgeous and not offered any longer.
I am in the beginning stage of a Field commission; when I asked what leathers are in stock, Greg said he has black and brown Pony in stock. In addition to his black aniline and blue pigment.
So, the Brown Pony is of some variety.

 

[Canuck Panda]

as marker already replied, no. it's a shame that Greg doesn't sell this leather anymore. it is great.

You got the best deal on that brown aniline Shinki! It would cost at least twice more now just to make that same jacket, if the jacket maker is willing to do it.
And it was THE FIRST ONE! I wonder if Greg hid a marking in the lining? If it had an item number, it would be 00001!
The truth is to get it that refined, with brown or any color aniline Shinki, at least 1/3 and up to half of the hide goes into the scrap bin after cutting is done. The question is, if Greg offered aniline Shinki at Himel or LW prices, would people still buy? I will ask this in the ask a question thread now.

 

[Marc mndt]

So, the Brown Pony is of some variety.

Nope. @MrProper jacket is made out of brown full aniline shinki (which he doesn't offer anymore because (1) he personally doesn't like the hide (2) it was almost impossible to match because of the color differences and imperfections).

The brown pony is aniline dyed with a top coat, which results in a very even hide. Yet it still has great color depth. I think it's beautiful.

This is the pony swatch compared to Eastman A1, elmc californian (Havana) and Aero seal Vicenza.