Got a 7x......cheap

[Fedora]

I got this vintage 7x Steton for around 22 bucks including shipping. Not bad at all. Check it out.http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8110289137&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1

May have posted that link twice. Anyways, it will be a canidate for a dye job, but I am getting better at the color changes, and my last one looked pretty good. The sweatband on this hat looks in great shape, and I was told there was no moth damage or tears. Looks like a good canidate for an Indy conversion. The 7x was supposed to be pure beaver, or so I have been told. I am curious as to how it compares to my belly beaver hat. Fedora

 

[jamespowers]

Darn,

You guys with small heads get all the luck. LOL LOL LOL

Regards to all,

J

 

[SHARPETOYS]

Hey Fedora,
I got this pure beaver one today to play around with or i'll send if off to be worked on.I got mine cheap as well $20.50 including shipping

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8110858369&ssPageName=ADME:B:BN:US:1

 

[Fedora]

Wow!! Good buy. I missed that one. Where else can you buy a 500 buck hat for 20 bucks. I love ebay. I really do. Fedora

 

[STHill]

It just occurred to me, vintage-style hats are the perfect hobby, if old classic stuff is your passion. And if, like me, your bank account doesn't look like Bill Gates'.

I have some interest in leather flight jackets (A-2s, G-1s) and also in vintage (generally 1950s) electric guitars. Vintage A-2s run in the thousands and are extremely hard to find, especially in sizes larger than 36. Quality vintage guitars are up in the tens of thousands, and in some cases, hundreds of thousands. Even replicas are expensive (jackets in the high hundreds, guitars in the low thousands).

But we can routinely find fine-quality hats for less than $50, often in almost new condition. I know you big-headed guys have trouble, but, hey everybody's got their cross to bear.:cry:

I guess the big difference, is that hats went completely out of style, leaving lots of fine specimens just sitting in a closet. In many cases, very fine hats were purchased and hardly ever worn. We complain that prices have gone up, and they have, but in what other area can you obtain almost perfectly preserved relics of a classic era or a song? Not only that, they're not particularly fragile. You can wear them for the rest of your life and pass them on to future hat nuts.

Count your blessings, boys!

 

[jamespowers]

Originally posted by STHill
It just occurred to me, vintage-style hats are the perfect hobby, if old classic stuff is your passion. And if, like me, your bank account doesn't look like Bill Gates'.

I have some interest in leather flight jackets (A-2s, G-1s) and also in vintage (generally 1950s) electric guitars. Vintage A-2s run in the thousands and are extremely hard to find, especially in sizes larger than 36. Quality vintage guitars are up in the tens of thousands, and in some cases, hundreds of thousands. Even replicas are expensive (jackets in the high hundreds, guitars in the low thousands).

But we can routinely find fine-quality hats for less than $50, often in almost new condition. I know you big-headed guys have trouble, but, hey everybody's got their cross to bear.:cry:

I guess the big difference, is that hats went completely out of style, leaving lots of fine specimens just sitting in a closet. In many cases, very fine hats were purchased and hardly ever worn. We complain that prices have gone up, and they have, but in what other area can you obtain almost perfectly preserved relics of a classic era or a song? Not only that, they're not particularly fragile. You can wear them for the rest of your life and pass them on to future hat nuts.

Count your blessings, boys!

Oh, thanks! Now we are the "big-headed guys." It sounds like we are some group of bank robbers during the Dilinger era. LOL
Actually a 7 5/8 isn't that hard to find it is just harder to find a style that fits your style. For people with hat sizes over 7 5/8 then you really get into the rarified area. I think only circus freaks had heads that size int he old days. LOL
All in all, our hobby is quite easy on the bank book. My vintage car collecting habit is not--especially if the wife gets in on it. So don't say it too loud or too often. We don't need an influx of collectors with tons of money willing to plunk down $500 for any vintage hat. SHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Regards to all,

J

 

[Zane]

Wow, with buys like that you guys would never have to buy a new hat.

Did Stetson ever make pure beaver hats for the public?

I wonder if it only says pure beaver on the box and not the hat?

I could not view the one Fedora got but that one Sharptoyes got looks brand new.

 

[SHARPETOYS]

The box sticker matches the hat so it should be pure beaver if not for $20 bucks it will be fun to mess with. I'll dye it and make into a fedora size 7 3/8.

 

[Fedora]

Hi Zane Welcome aboard. Hope you hang out here, as I love haveing hatters in the group. Art is a hatter, and has a shop in CA.

Did Stetson ever make pure beaver hats for the public?

Yes, according to my Stetson Book. The 10x was pure beaver, and I have heard the 7x was as well, but the book does not say it to be so. You don't see many of the vintage higher x hats on ebay. That is why I jumped on the one that I bought. Mine is not as new looking, hatwise as Sharptoys'. But the sweatband on mine looks to be practically new. It is probably just dusty with a stain or two. BTW, I have done a few blocks for Charlie, and even sent him a vintage poplar block so he could see what we were after in the block for an Indy fedora. Working on hats is a hobby of mine that started when I could not find a hat that had the right block shape for the Raiders Indy fedora. I finally bought a block from ebay, and modified it with bondo to arrive at the straight sided block that I was after to recreate the look. Don't be a stranger here. regards, Fedora


PS I have a GH Sterling Beaver hat, and it is really nice felt. I highly recommend the pure beaver felt.

 

[Zane]

Hi Fedora and thank you for the information.

I never seen a lot of old Stetsons but understand the new stuff is not very good or less good than older ones.

I know you can redye many hats and they turn out fine while others do not seem to cooperate. I suggest you use a lot of table salt if you are using regular Rit dye to fix that color from bleeding.

I used to work with Luther Johnson and Charlie Swindall before they was Gladhatter, some years ago. I guess Luther has about parted ways now but they are still friends. I hated to see Luther move and always enjoyed visiting him at the shop after I was no longer involved with them. I was recently ask to help with some of the blocking part time and will probably help them out as it is just across the mountain from me.

I was delighted when I was emailed links to some popular hat forums and really enjoy getting on here and learning from so many knowledgeable people. I had lost their email address and had not spoke to any of those folks in a couple years and was just tickled to get to visit them again and see them getting a local shop back together.

I can tell you one thing but apparently you already knew it before me. Those new thin fedora beaver hats he is turning out are really fine. I saw one that was going to some guy named Hogg, and it was as fine a hat as I ever seen period.

I hope I can afford one for Christmas if I find any ginseng this year.

Well I did not know folks out in California really wore hats till I got to reading on here. I expect that Art has a booming business there.

 

[BD Jones]

Also, don't forget the Steston 100. From what I understand, before Stetson started using X's, they used numbers to denote not only the price but the beaver content as well. Steston 25 went for $25 and was 25% beaver; 50 was $50 and was 50% beaver. The Stetson 100 was 100% beaver and went for $100. From what I understand, these are the Steston hats to get. These are true vintage hats. With the X's it may be vintage and it may not.

 

[fedoralover]

BD, are you sure about the dollar price being the same as the beaver content? I was told by Joe Peters that it only denoted the price of the hat. Also, I've had a stetson 3x and a stetson 25 which should be close to the same beaver content if the price and beaver content are the same and I can tell you the stetson 25 is miles ahead of the 3x. According some of the info I've read the only difference in some of them is the liner and sweat band. In some stetsons the 7x, 10x and 100x all had the same beaver content. They just basically dressed them different.

regards fedoralover

 

[Fedora]

Also, don't forget the Steston 100. From what I understand, before Stetson started using X's, they used numbers to denote not only the price but the beaver content as well. Steston 25 went for $25 and was 25% beaver; 50 was $50 and was 50% beaver. The Stetson 100 was 100% beaver and went for $100. From what I understand, these are the Steston hats to get. These are true vintage hats. With the X's it may be vintage and it may not.

Are you sure about that? From what I can gather from the Stetson Book, the 3x, 7x, 10x came first. The 3x sold for 30 bucks(when the Royal Stetsons were selling for 10 bucks), the 7x sold for 70 bucks(an expensive hat for sure), and the 10x sold for 100 bucks. The 3x was roughly 30 per cent beaver, while the 10x was 100 per cent beaver. I think the Stetson 100 came out later on, and everyone that I have seen was a western hat of some sort. The same with the 25. It was added later on and was a step up from the Royal Deluxe line that appeared in 1948. Correct me if I am wrong on this sequence of felt lines. Seems like I recall the Stetson 25 showing up in the 60's. I could be wrong. I know that at one time, back in the 20's, Stetson offered hats in the No.1 Quality, the Premier line, and then the "X" hats as well as Clear Nutria and Nutria Quality. The 10x bands had Clear Beaver stamped on them, as well as some of the liners. Let's talk about it, and figure all of this out. I love this stuff! What sources did you use BDJ? Oh, I just read fedoralover's post. I dunno fedoralover, it would be hard to beat my vintage 3x. I don't think the old Stetson company even had a 100 x hat. These large x ratings happened after Stetson sold its name in 1970. The old Stetons stopped at 10x. It was pure beaver and probably the most expensive hat they sold to the public. regards, Fedora

 

[BD Jones]

It's funny that fedoralover mentions Joe Peters, because that's one of the places I heard it. Not only from Joe Jr, but from Joe Sr on a seperate occasion. I was also told this by a hatter in San Antonio, a Stetson collector, and various hat websites devoted to the Stetson brand. Joe Jr. did tell me that the vintage Stetson also indicated the beaver content by the X's (3x 30%, 50x 50%, 7x 75% or possibly 100%, 10X 100% clear beaver). However, all of them claimed that the ones to get were the ones without the X's. The 25, 50 100 line. These were the best Stetson produced. I thought they said these were made before the X's but I could be mistaken on that fact, especially if you've got the books. But I am positive on the other (unless I'm wrong, them I'm not).

Well, I'm out of here for a for a while I'm going in for a root canal under sedation dentistry and the pill they gave me is starting to take effect. I need to get off before I passs oout. hjc xjikcdciggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg

 

[Zane]

It sure would be interesting to find out all this stuff. I am not the source for it all. I have probably renovated all of them at one time or another but back then I was just trying to make a living and never paid any much attention to it all.

 

[Fedora]

Here is some info, although not much, from the Stetson book.


"The Stetson Company used the fur from American and Canadian beaver and muskrat, "nutria" from the Argentine coyupu, and fur from the hare from Continental europe and the Scottish and English Coney to make their felt. The best quality fur from the beaver , muskrat, and coypu was the bellyfur; from the hares and coneys the back fur was best. The higher the quality of the fur used to make the felt, the more expensive the hat made from the felt would be. According to early catalogs, the quality of the felt and the size of the brim were prime considerations in pricing Stetson hats.
Hats using felt make of nutria or beaver were prominently noted among the Stetson tradmarks as these wre the highest quality felts. Trademarks for felt hats were often accompanied by "X" notations such as 1X, 3X, or XXX which indicated the densityof the material. In essence, these were quality ratings, the more Xs, the higher the quality of the felt. This x rating system ranged in grade from as low as 1X to as high as 10X. Hats made of material rated below 5X generally contained a poorer grade of fur with little or no beaver fur. A 10 X hat contained 100% beaver fur. In years past this X rating was a convenient rough pricing guide, as a 3X hat would cost $30, a 4X hat, $40, and so on. In the mid 40's, a 10X Stetson cost $100 and was the finest hat available."


So, it seems the Stetson "X" system was in use during the 1940's. I might add that the Stetson book makes no mention anywhere of the Stetson 100, although it does mention the Stetson 20, which appears to be from the early 50's. But, the X system was used as far back as 1924 when a window card had this on it. "Stetson 3X Beaver Quality Fifteen Dollars and Up" (page 20, Stetson Book)

However, all of them claimed that the ones to get were the ones without the X's. The 25, 50 100 line.

Which of course goes against what the Stetson Books says in regards to the highest quality hats made by Stetson. If the 25, 50 and 100 line existed prior to the sellout in 1970, I can find no mention of it. But, perhaps this nomenclature was used by the seller, in the same way that retailors had their own unique model names added to the hat whenever they made their order out to Stetson. There are numerous western styled Stetsons that have names inside the hat that Stetson did not include in their catalogs. Could this be of the same nature? I dunno. But, I want to know. regards Fedora

 

[havershaw]

Fedora, I have a Stetson Twenty which came from Philly...does that confuse things any further?

 

[Fedora]

Fedora, I have a Stetson Twenty which came from Philly...does that confuse things any further?

Not at all. Like I said, I think the 20 came out in the 1950's. And that line is shown in the book. Here is what lines the book mentions. No. 1 Quality, Select Quality, Nutria Quality, Premier line, the "X" rated hats, Clear Nutria, Clear Beaver, Imperial line, Royal line, Royal Deluxe line. That is all that I can recall at the moment, but will search the book once again to see if I missed anything. Of course, it mentions the 20 dollar hat too. But, if the 10x was pure beaver and their highest quality hat, why add the 100? I think the 100 came after the sellout, which would make it not a true Stetson. Or it was a name added by a particular store. Of course, I could be wrong. Fedora

 

[SHARPETOYS]

This site give some info on the X factor. The audio says back then a 7X was a pure beaver body. The other site gives some history maybe it will help?
http://www.shudde.com/sound/neal4d.wav

http://amst.umd.edu/amst205/sg/stetson.pdf

 

[Fedora]

Interesting. The second link comes straight from the book that several of us own. The audio mentioned the x system created by John B. Stetson, and also the 100, 200, and 500, but does not say when the later came out. I doubt if the 500 existed back in the 30 and 40's. Just the price sounds like it would have been much later, if the highest quality hat sold by Stetson at one time was the 10x, and it being 100 bucks. On the second link, one has to mistrust info given in the last section on hat models It states that the Royal Deluxe pictured was from 1920. Elsewhere in the book, it states the Royal Deluxe line was introduced in 1948. It can't be both ways. It also shows a 20 dating from about the same time. Thanks for those links. Fedora