GoodWear Leather - 1939 Werber A-2 (new)

[Sloan1874]

To be fair, from our experience with Bill Kelso on here and from reading Stuart's Lost Worlds' website - still the worst of all the makers by a long chalk - you could be forgiven for arriving at the conclusion that both are jerks.

 

[thekiyote]

@red devil Okay, I need a quick time out here, and ask, do you think I'm attacking you? Because I'm not trying to attack you. I'm not even trying to convince you to buy a Good Wear. What I'm trying to do is answer the questions you're asking, but I'm getting the impression that you're taking every response very personally...

 

[Colin G]

I like the OP's jacket but this thread turned into a garbage pile quite fast.

I've never dealt with GW, but like red devil, my interactions with Lost Worlds have all been positive.

 

[Mich486]

To be fair, from our experience with Bill Kelso on here and from reading Stuart's Lost Worlds' website - still the worst of all the makers by a long chalk - you could be forgiven for arriving at the conclusion that both are jerks.

Maybe they both are but at least they deliver their jackets to paying customers. Bill Kelso for me was not different than dealing with Aero in terms of quality of service.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[red devil]

To be fair, from our experience with Bill Kelso on here and from reading Stuart's Lost Worlds' website - still the worst of all the makers by a long chalk - you could be forgiven for arriving at the conclusion that both are jerks.

As I said, I have never dealt with Bill Kelso so I can't comment here. As for the Lost World site, whatever you think it is, it at least is honest and that put it way above the GW website that is simply dishonest.

@red devil Okay, I need a quick time out here, and ask, do you think I'm attacking you? Because I'm not trying to attack you. I'm not even trying to convince you to buy a Good Wear. What I'm trying to do is answer the questions you're asking, but I'm getting the impression that you're taking every response very personally...

I am not taking it personally, and I am not attacking you either. I am simply finding it weird the lengths you will go to defend John Chapman when it is pretty much indefensible. But this does not apply only to you.

I really liked what @El Marro said, he likes GW but can understand our disappointment.

And I think that @willyto 's post really resumes the situation very well.

 

[JMax]

Stu was a straightforward forward professional that knew his trade and provided a top-tier jacket exactly when promised. No less passionate because he is a competent businessman. Stu is the man.

Far as I can tell, JC does not fix the waiting list problem, easy as it would be, because his cash flow and operation hinges on it. It’s why he comes out of the woodwork to answer emails about refunds and ignores most everything else. It’s why he can’t be truthful about the wait times on his website. But hey, he is friendly and passionate that one time every two years someone gets a hold of him, so all cool bro.

I would hate to be his accountant and may the IRS have mercy on his soul if he does his own books and they ever get around to auditing him.

 

[thekiyote]

As I said, I have never dealt with Bill Kelso so I can't comment here. As for the Lost World site, whatever you think it is, it at least is honest and that put it way above the GW website that is simply dishonest.



I am not taking it personally, and I am not attacking you either. I am simply finding it weird the lengths you will go to defend John Chapman when it is pretty much indefensible. But this does not apply only to you.

I really liked what @El Marro said, he likes GW but can understand our disappointment.

And I think that @willyto 's post really resumes the situation very well.

What are you talking about? I've acknowledged over and over again that JC mismanages his business. I've also said, over and over again, why I understand why someone wouldn't order from him. I think it's worth it being on the list, but I understand completely why it isn't to a lot of people.

The only point where I disagreed with you on is that he's being "dishonest", which implies he's somehow intentionally trying to deceive people, when I don't think he's intending to jerk people around, he's just really bad at managing anything but making jackets.

I'm just trying to understand what you're actually trying to say. At this point, I think you're just trying to say he's bad at managing his wait list, too, which is why you think I'm somehow trying to excuse that.

 

[El Marro]

I like the OP's jacket but this thread turned into a garbage pile quite fast.

I agree with both points. Unfortunately I think this is where GW threads are headed for awhile unless/until the wait list situation is straightened out.

 

[jonbuilder]

Stu was a straightforward forward professional that knew his trade and provided a top-tier jacket exactly when promised. No less passionate because he is a competent businessman. Stu is the man.

Far as I can tell, JC does not fix the waiting list problem, easy as it would be, because his cash flow and operation hinges on it. It’s why he comes out of the woodwork to answer emails about refunds and ignores most everything else. It’s why he can’t be truthful about the wait times on his website. But hey, he is friendly and passionate that one time every two years someone gets a hold of him, so all cool bro.

I would hate to be his accountant and may the IRS have mercy on his soul if he does his own books and they ever get around to auditing him.

How do you know that John Chapman is using $200 deposits to fund his jacking making because his cash flow and operation hinges on it"? Perhaps you have studied his accounting books and can enlighten us further? Or are you just dumping pure speculation in a slanderous manner?

 

[Seb Lucas]

I don't think this thread has turned bad at all. There's actually a consensus forming:

- JC makes highly appreciated jackets that some think are touched by genius.

- JC struggles to communicate and has an unorthodox approach to business which may have drastic consequences.

Is there anything else?

Anything else about character or motive is pure speculation.

Does JC deserve special consideration because of his skill/reputation, as some insist? That sounds like special pleading and I would say probably not. All makers deserve the same level of respect unless they loose it through word or deed.

 

[JMax]

How do you know that John Chapman is using $200 deposits to fund his jacking making because his cash flow and operation hinges on it"? Perhaps you have studied his accounting books and can enlighten us further? Or are you just dumping pure speculation in a slanderous manner?

 

[Superfluous]

 

[dudewuttheheck]

Oh goodie, controversy I don't have to get dragged into.

Regardless, that jacket is beautiful.

 

[jonbuilder]

I don't think this thread has turned bad at all. There's actually a consensus forming:

- JC makes highly appreciated jackets that some think are touched by genius.

- JC struggles to communicate and has an unorthodox approach to business which may have drastic consequences.

Is there anything else?

Anything else about character or motive is pure speculation.

Does JC deserve special consideration because of his skill/reputation, as some insist? That sounds like special pleading and I would say probably not. All makers deserve the same level of respect unless they loose it through word or deed.

IMO John Chapman not only deserves but receives special consideration not solely because of his skill at make reproduction jackets but more importantly based on his passion and contribution to advance the appreciation and documentation of US flight jackets during the WWII era.

 

[jonbuilder]

I am not or never have been on a waiting list for a Good Wear jacket. John did not make my Good Wear jacket for me, it was his first test jacket of the Bronco contract he placed for sale on the Vintage Leather Jackets forum. I am the first owner other than John.
I have been thinking about people who have been on the GW waiting list for years or new people joining the waiting list now realizing the unknown length of time they are facing. I am thinking you guys sticking it out are looking for more than an expensive luxury jacket that you don't need and maybe already have multiple expensive leather jackets. If the object was solely to acquire another luxury leather jacket there other sources than John Chapman that will make you a fine jacket without the unknown waiting list factor. If you really had to have a Good Wear jacket you could search for a jacket that was already made. What you will not get from one of the other excellent jacket companies or a pre-made Good Wear jacket is the "John Chapman experience". Having communication with John Chapman regarding the lore and art of leather jackets and going over the detail of a new creation "your leather jacket custom made for you by John Chapman"
What do you guys on the list say? Am I off base?

 

[Superfluous]

Oh goodie, controversy I don't have to get dragged into.

 

[jonbuilder]

@ superfluous funny

Here is a quote from a John Chapman (buzzthetower) on June 18, 2014
"Most of my customers are in the US, and only a few are from the far East. A good portion are from Europe, too, but most are US. Most of them don't post on forums. Only about one in 20 of the jackets I make get mentioned on forums. These others are mostly quiet fellows who like the look of WWII gear, and the jackets have the advantage of being great with any format of clothing. I guess what I'm saying is that for those who post on the forum, it may not be an even representation of those who buy jackets."

 

[red devil]

I agree with both points. Unfortunately I think this is where GW threads are headed for awhile unless/until the wait list situation is straightened out.

It might not have to be this way if we take the time to think about it...

How about about we create a thread to inform people about John's business style? It could be labelled something in the line of "Things to know before you place your order with Goodwear".

It would include only facts and nothing about his character whether good or bad, and these would includes items such as:

- The fact that the waiting time on the official website is false
- Some of the customers get preferential treatment and get put ahead of others who have been waiting for a longer time
- The oldest known unfulfilled orders are currently clocking at over 5 years
- The inexistent communication until you ask for a refund or get chosen to spec your jacket

Surely we will all agree that this is a reasonable step to keep everybody informed in a reasonable and fair manner.

It would work best as a sticky thread

 

[jonbuilder]

It might not have to be this way if we take the time to think about it...

How about about we create a thread to inform people about John's business style? It could be labelled something in the line of "Things to know before you place your order with Goodwear".

It would include only facts and nothing about his character whether good or bad, and these would includes items such as:

- The fact that the waiting time on the official website is false
- Some of the customers get preferential treatment and get put ahead of others who have been waiting for a longer time
- The oldest known unfulfilled orders are currently clocking at over 5 years
- The inexistent communication until you ask for a refund or get chosen to spec your jacket

Surely we will all agree that this is a reasonable step to keep everybody informed in a reasonable and fair manner.

It would work best as a sticky thread

are you serious? and if so what's stopping you?

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I think he is serious . What is this FL outerwear section turning into? I think one fella in the far east would jump on that sticky suggestion in a heart beat. Completely outrageous