Good Wear A-2 Dubow 20960 Contract (pic heavy).

[Sloan1874]

Excuse me for saying so Craig, but were this mine I would be returning it for a refund because the pockets are off centre and the left side collar snap is installed on the zipper seam, which I do believe is considered a major sin amongst makers at this level

Pockets were 'off centre' on the original contract - I think this was somebody trying to align them by eye rather than measuring them. This was something only corrected on later jackets. And if you look at the collar on the original, the snap sits on the seam as well.
Here's a vintage one: https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/j-a-dubow-ac20960.77272/
Basically, what you've got to understand with Good Wear jackets is that they're about reproducing the original A-2 contracts, faults and all. You either get that or you don't, but what John is trying to create jackets that if you chucked them at a pilot in 1942, he wouldn't give them a second look.
I can just imagine sending this back to John with a message saying "Sorry, man, this is too accurate, can you fix it for me?".

 

[EmergencyIan]

I stand corrected. I guess I can’t tell centered pockets from off-center or am looking for the wrong thing. Oops! Apologies.

- Ian

 

[Sloan1874]

I think you've done exactly what the original pattern maker did. I'll admit it's odd, if you think about it, but not every maker actually made jackets until they were handed the contract at which point they had to get somebody to make the pattern for them. You don't notice it on a casual glance, it's only when you starting thinking about positions and proportions, which most of the general public don't!

 

[jonesy86]

I stand corrected. I guess I can’t tell centered pockets from off-center or am looking for the wrong thing. Oops! Apologies.

- Ian

Well, I am certainly not an expert but I kinda like JCs stuff. If he offered to sell me one like this i would probably buy it.

 

[Sloan1874]

You'd probably buy it because it's stitch perfect! These aren't really aimed at the casual buyer - you could buy a cheap generic one and be happy with it. You go to John for the quirks of fit and design that appeared in the dozen or so various contracts..

 

[EmergencyIan]

John made an A-2 for me back in 2010. At that time, I spoke to him a handful of times. He could get you to want any of his jackets and never has to try to sell you one...if that makes sense. He’s just very passionate about what he does; it comes through and shows in the finished product.

- Ian

 

[Lebowski]

Pockets were 'off centre' on the original contract - I think this was somebody trying to align them by eye rather than measuring them. This was something only corrected on later jackets.
Here's a vintage one: https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/j-a-dubow-ac20960.77272/

Sloan, I've read that comment about "off centered" pockets above and would like to write some thoughts about that.
It's not a question of "off centered" pockets actually, but it's a question of the cut edge of the wind flap centered pockets which was quite common pockets position on Dubow's, so - of course it is historically correct for this contract. Absolutely.
Moreover, there were both variants of pockets position used on original Dubow A-2's then - with zipper centered pockets (which some people might name "centered" pockets) and with the cut edge of the wind flap centered pockets (as on your GW Dubow A-2). Both variants are absolutely historically correct for Dubow A-2's. This question has been particularly discussed at VLJ.
As for "the left side collar snap is installed on the zipper seam" - it is correct for Dubow's too, of course. No doubts.
So, that anybody's decision of returning this perfect GW Dubow A-2 back to JC just because of mentioned above reasons wasn't very smart actually - but it caused a unique possibility for you to get this superb Dubow A-2 from JC, which is great!
Congrats with such fantastic purchase Sloan! Thumbs up!

 

[jonesy86]

Here is what JC said:

A number of these Dubow 20960 A-2 can be seen in photos of the Doolittle Raider crews. The position of the pocket near the wind flap is the first detail one can find (note Links page for photos). Jimmy Doolittle is wearing one.

 

[MVP]

Pockets were 'off centre' on the original contract - I think this was somebody trying to align them by eye rather than measuring them. This was something only corrected on later jackets. And if you look at the collar on the original, the snap sits on the seam as well.
Here's a vintage one: https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/j-a-dubow-ac20960.77272/
Basically, what you've got to understand with Good Wear jackets is that they're about reproducing the original A-2 contracts, faults and all. You either get that or you don't, but what John is trying to create jackets that if you chucked them at a pilot in 1942, he wouldn't give them a second look.
I can just imagine sending this back to John with a message saying "Sorry, man, this is too accurate, can you fix it for me?".

When you have two original jackets, one with centered pockets and one with off-center pockets to say "ok both existed so both are correct (both variants are absolutely historically correct)"is in my view kinda silly. The existence of the one with centered pockets proves that the pattern was correct and that the jacket with off-center pockets is just an example of bad craftsmanship. So to repeat that mistakes when the correct way is documented is a good idea how exactly? .

The Japanese who are suckers for authenticity reproduce the jacket correctly, from original patterns, with centered pockets. All of them:

BUZZ RICKSON
https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/auc-cream-r/item/br80185sbrown/

REAL MCCOYS
https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/auc-life-sendai/item/u80815754h0500ts60/

TOYS MCCOYS
https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/pine-avenue/item/tmj1805-051sealbrown/

And of course, they put the snap where it's supposed to be too, i.e. not
on the zipper seam.

JC seems also to agree with the Japanese, as he placed the pockets and snap correctly here
http://www.goodwearleather.com/pages/sale_dubow2_0003.html

Then maybe changed his mind and while he made the pockets correctly,
the snap is wrong again here
http://www.goodwearleather.com/pages/gwdubow2_images5.html

I am sorry but it seems that with your jacket he has gotten both wrong! I still say it looks like
bad craftsmanship and I am afraid there is only one fix for that, which is return for a replacement of refund.

But obviously if it's good enough for you and you're happy with it, then keep it!

 

[Sloan1874]

I always find it interesting when somebody with so few posts suddenly gets the moxie to start making such bold claims using only Japanese repros as the basis of their argument.
I’ve spoken to John Chapman at length on the phone about the pocket spacing, so it's not some weird quirk he's landed on. John’s handled dozens of Dubows during more than a decade of jacket making, so it's not a case of 'I saw it on one jacket and stuck with this', his patterns are based on the most common features across a large number of jackets.
And just to bolster this point, have another original with the same pocket arrangement: http://www.acmedepot.com/a2jacket/a2images/dubow_front.jpg
The point about the A2 is that it was neither a consistent or perfect design, which makes it an incredibly organic, human piece - no one contract was the same!
So, while Buzz and Real McCoy make lovely stuff they are by no means are they the last word in accuracy - I can well imagine they balked at the idea of leaving this particular detail in
So, yes, left hand pocket is aligned to the the edge of the wind flap not to the seam, and that is an identifying mark of this particular contract, along with its distinctive crescent collar and slim fit. The 23379 contract that followed it has the same feature, but without the collar stand and smaller, more pointed collar shape. It's only when you get to the 27798 contract that this quirk has been ironed out and the pockets align to the seam and edge of the wind flap.
As per my original post on this: I went to John because I wanted stitch-perfect repro. I didn't want a jacket which had its edges skived and glued, as is the case with many Japanese ones,and the pockets 'corrected'.
The first Dubow contract is one of the coolest because it is so unique: the shape, the collar, even the pocket layout, all make it incredibly distinctive.As you correctly surmise, it is more than good enough for more me, A it's incredibly precise, beatifully-rendered repro. In fact, I'm seriously mulling a second order, it's just a case of which one!

 

[Lebowski]

When you have two original jackets, one with centered pockets and one with off-center pockets to say "ok both existed so both are correct (both variants are absolutely historically correct)"is in my view kinda silly. The existence of the one with centered pockets proves that the pattern was correct and that the jacket with off-center pockets is just an example of bad craftsmanship. So to repeat that mistakes when the correct way is documented is a good idea how exactly? .

The Japanese who are suckers for authenticity reproduce the jacket correctly, from original patterns, with centered pockets. All of them:

BUZZ RICKSON
https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/auc-cream-r/item/br80185sbrown/

REAL MCCOYS
https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/auc-life-sendai/item/u80815754h0500ts60/

TOYS MCCOYS
https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/pine-avenue/item/tmj1805-051sealbrown/

And of course, they put the snap where it's supposed to be too, i.e. not
on the zipper seam.

JC seems also to agree with the Japanese, as he placed the pockets and snap correctly here
http://www.goodwearleather.com/pages/sale_dubow2_0003.html

Then maybe changed his mind and while he made the pockets correctly,
the snap is wrong again here
http://www.goodwearleather.com/pages/gwdubow2_images5.html

I am sorry but it seems that with your jacket he has gotten both wrong! I still say it looks like
bad craftsmanship and I am afraid there is only one fix for that, which is return for a replacement of refund.

But obviously if it's good enough for you and you're happy with it, then keep it!

Nothing but nonsense.

 

[jonesy86]

Moxie is a good word.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bn1966]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but some opinions are: Moxie..

Lovely character laden Dubow repro A-2 jacket from JC..end of

 

[bn1966]

Just about to take my 'virgin' ELC Monarch contract A-2 off to Czech for a few days 'break-in'.......

 

[dudewuttheheck]

When you have two original jackets, one with centered pockets and one with off-center pockets to say "ok both existed so both are correct (both variants are absolutely historically correct)"is in my view kinda silly. The existence of the one with centered pockets proves that the pattern was correct and that the jacket with off-center pockets is just an example of bad craftsmanship. So to repeat that mistakes when the correct way is documented is a good idea how exactly? .

The Japanese who are suckers for authenticity reproduce the jacket correctly, from original patterns, with centered pockets. All of them:

BUZZ RICKSON
https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/auc-cream-r/item/br80185sbrown/

REAL MCCOYS
https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/auc-life-sendai/item/u80815754h0500ts60/

TOYS MCCOYS
https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/pine-avenue/item/tmj1805-051sealbrown/

And of course, they put the snap where it's supposed to be too, i.e. not
on the zipper seam.

JC seems also to agree with the Japanese, as he placed the pockets and snap correctly here
http://www.goodwearleather.com/pages/sale_dubow2_0003.html

Then maybe changed his mind and while he made the pockets correctly,
the snap is wrong again here
http://www.goodwearleather.com/pages/gwdubow2_images5.html

I am sorry but it seems that with your jacket he has gotten both wrong! I still say it looks like
bad craftsmanship and I am afraid there is only one fix for that, which is return for a replacement of refund.

But obviously if it's good enough for you and you're happy with it, then keep it!

I own a RMC jacket and I adore it. The craftsmanship is top notch as are all of the materials and the fit is perfect for me. However, not for one second do I believe it is a more accurate reproduction than a Good Wear. You need to spend more time listening and less time trying to prove you're right when you're clearly wrong.

 

[Lebowski]

I always find it interesting when somebody with so few posts suddenly gets the moxie to start making such bold claims using only Japanese repros as the basis of their argument.
I’ve spoken to John Chapman at length on the phone about the pocket spacing, so it's not some weird quirk he's landed on. John’s handled dozens of Dubows during more than a decade of jacket making, so it's not a case of 'I saw it on one jacket and stuck with this', his patterns are based on the most common features across a large number of jackets.
And just to bolster this point, have another original with the same pocket arrangement: http://www.acmedepot.com/a2jacket/a2images/dubow_front.jpg
The point about the A2 is that it was neither a consistent or perfect design, which makes it an incredibly organic, human piece - no one contract was the same!
So, while Buzz and Real McCoy make lovely stuff they are by no means are they the last word in accuracy - I can well imagine they balked at the idea of leaving this particular detail in
So, yes, left hand pocket is aligned to the the edge of the wind flap not to the seam, and that is an identifying mark of this particular contract, along with its distinctive crescent collar and slim fit. The 23379 contract that followed it has the same feature, but without the collar stand and smaller, more pointed collar shape. It's only when you get to the 27798 contract that this quirk has been ironed out and the pockets align to the seam and edge of the wind flap.
As per my original post on this: I went to John because I wanted stitch-perfect repro. I didn't want a jacket which had its edges skived and glued, as is the case with many Japanese ones,and the pockets 'corrected'.
The first Dubow contract is one of the coolest because it is so unique: the shape, the collar, even the pocket layout, all make it incredibly distinctive.As you correctly surmise, it is more than good enough for more me, A it's incredibly precise, beatifully-rendered repro. In fact, I'm seriously mulling a second order, it's just a case of which one!

Sloan, I just want somebody to return such nice Dubow A-2 contract back to JC again, because of the same "reasons", but in size 44 this time - just to let me buy it from JC immediately, Lol)) Well, if seriously - that's hardly possible to repeat such unique situation...
Anyway, if in size 44 - I'd buy it. Very like this jacket, it's excellent in its every tiny detail.

 

[kowalski]

Well, people, here we are... After tracking it all the way from Seattle, across the Atlantic, and then up to Glasgow, I took ownership of my GW Dubow this evening...



So, wielding a knife carefully, I prised open the box, which, all credit to John, was unlikely to be opened casually by anyone wondering what was inside...



So far, so good... and with no further ado... the big reveal!


























It is, in short, absolutely stunning. The colour and grain of the Italian horsehide, the quality of construction, attention to detail, everything that you've heard about John's craftsmanship is true - there isn't a stray thread or stitch out of place. As always, the pics don't really capture the depth of colour and the light was fading, so hopefully when I do some fit pics later, I'll get a better representation of it.
Talking of which, the fit is absolutely spot-on. I won't lie, this was something I was genuinely fearful of. Sending a set of measurements to somebody thousands of miles away and expecting them to get it right on the first bounce is not something I do lightly, but John obviously has honed his art and it looks, as you'd expect, made for me: a close, but not overly-tight fit, I can probably get a light jumper under it, it sits about an inch beneath my belt, so it doesn't feel too short. Sleeve length is on the nail too, an area that I have perennial problems with and the one aspect I thought might have tripped John up. Thankfully, he didn't mention the final size of the jacket - a 40! As somebody who has spent his life in 36s and 38s, if he'd told me that was what he was going with, I'd have been even more of a nervous wreck than I already was. I can only imagine that back in the day these people were seriously undernourished!
Overall, it's exactly what I wanted: a new old stock A-2 that, if it was thrown at a pilot in 1942, they would think that it was the nicest jacket they'd ever seen but apart from that they wouldn't give it a second glance.
Anyway, fit pics to follow, and in the meantime I now have to resist jumping back on the queue immediately to get myself a seal one...

I would sleep in tyhis jacket!, is fantastc, beatyful!

 

[Sloan1874]

Moxie is a good word.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

*rips off November 5th page on 'word-a-day' calendar with flourish*
I should add that if I was a more suspicious person, I might think that I'm being professionally trolled by a Schitzo sock puppet, but I'm not, so I'll go with a surfeit of chutzpah...

 

[jonesy86]

 

[El Marro]

You need to spend more time listening and less time trying to prove you're right when you're clearly wrong.

I couldn’t have said it any better myself.