Goatskin For Motorcycle Jacket

[Fifty150]

I didn't want to be the guy who resurrects an old thread. Some people in online forums frown upon that.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/is-goatskin-inappropriate-for-a-motorcycle-jacket.63461/

I have several goatskin jackets. A-2, G-1, and others. I've worn them while riding a motorcycle. My first leather jacket, which I rode in, was an A-2. As far as comfort, I was comfortable. My memory is bad, but I recall that Tom Cruise wore a G-1 in the film Top Gun. And rode a motorcycle wearing the same jacket.

Has anyone fallen wearing a goatskin jacket. Any real world feedback on falling off a bike wearing a goatskin jacket?

 

[bn1966]

I’ve ridden with goatskin G-1’s on and still mainly ride with leather jackets as opposed to textile. These days I wear kevlar and armour underneath. Aiming mainly at using my ELC A-2’s (HH) this summer. No falling off feedback though (thankfully).

 

[jglf]

The difference between goatskin and other leathers is minimal when skidding on asphalt at high rates of speed. You might get a few more seconds of slide time before the leather wears through with thicker leather. What’s more important is the mobility and comfort you get from certain leathers and jackets.

 

[TheDonEffect]

FWIW goat is one of the more durable skins, but tend to be thinner. How that translates to real world slide time I'm not sure, but I still view goat as still better than almost all the textile jackets you can buy. But I will still say getting a thicker hide like steer is better because you can still get scuffed up through material, like skinning your knee without actually tearing through your jeans, in this leather with its thickness offers superior protection.

Goat and Kangaroo are great for tracks since tracks tend to be smoother with run offs, real world you have rough pavement and such.

In short, nothing wrong with goat especially if you can get a thicker one. I will echo what was said earlier that mobility is very important as well, and armor armor armor.

That said a bunch of old school dudes will say eh I just wear my everyday leather jacket and was just fine. I'm rehabbing a shoulder surgery (not bike related) right now and will just say I'm going to spend the rest of my life trying to avoid any surgery on any joints. It suuuuuuuucks.

 

[oneterrifichog]

It's my feeling that goat for a motorcycle jacket works very well if you choose a manufacturer that procurs a decent thick goat leather. Goat is water resistant and it wears well over time. I had Stuart manufacture a goat J-23 and wore it for several years while riding. I took 2 trips out west from Tennessee wearing the goat J-23. it was comfortable and went through several rain squalls with no issue. I think the key is getting a well made jacket from one of the better companies.


This shot is from 2015. I road out to Colorado for about 2 weeks exploring numerous passes

This below photo was a cross country trip in 2018 with my wife to see my daughter in CA. The jacket held up well and was very comfortable through all kinds of weather.

 

[caddyd]

If you crash it'll certainly be your ass!

 

[oneterrifichog]

If you crash it will always be your ass. That is the chance you take riding a motorcycle. Yes you can use preventable gear and one should make those decisions but no matter what you put on your body if you crash, go down, go up or whatever at 70 mph or even 20 mph it is going to be your ass.

 

[yellowfever]

Goatskin, if properly selected, tanned and of appropriate thickness for the purpose is not a bad choice for motorbike use, though it’s not all that common. It’s one of the strongest leathers thickness for thickness (beaten by kangaroo only I think). It’s a bit more water resistant than cow/steer too, all else equal. But the size of the skins are smaller (so more seams and higher costs) and it’s not as thick as cow/steer. It gets used in motorbike gloves a fair bit (where thinner leather helps with bulk/feel) though kangaroo is better still so that’s taking over at least at the higher end. And it can be good in eg motorbike pants given comfort issues with thick leather trousers, though it’s pretty rare. Ditto on jackets (I think Langlitz are one of the few ‘proper’ motorbike leather manufacturers that still make regular use if it.)

All that said, the material (various textiles, various different leathers etc) used is just one factor In how protective motorbike kit is In a crash. Number, placing and stitching of seams is crucial. The thickest toughest leather in the world won’t protect you if the seam bursts due to eg lack of hidden stitching/the wrong kind if thread and construction methods…. Reinforcement in areas in high impact zones (elbows, shoulders, bum, outer thigh knees etc are important too. Armour in these areas (and a decent back protector) adds some impact protection and further slide protection (in my one crash - a 100mph off at a track day - I got through TWO layers of Vanson’s old competition weight hide on one shoulder, but the armour underneath saved me from any injury. The jacket lives on after some professional repair which is another advantage of thicker leathers - they’ll survive more crashes than you will).

Another factor in motorbike kit design is comfort. The thickest and best stitched leathers won’t protect you when they are hung in the wardrobe whilst you ride in something else because the leathers are too uncomfortable/hot/cold/ whatever. And if you do wear them but overheat/freeze and/or are exhausted/distracted by the restrictive discomfort of stiff badly patterned riding kit then you may be more likely to crash In the first place.

Style (or lack thereof) may also be a factor. A cool looking jacket that you think fits your style/type of bike/style of riding you do may be more likely to get worn than one you don’t feel good in. Personally I think wearing the right kit for the job always looks cool, but not everyone agrees…

Lastly your kit needs to stay where it’s meant to under the enormous forces that a crash can put them under. A helmet that flies off doesn’t protect the user (helmets that come off are unsurprisingly associated with a lot of fatal accidents), nor do gloves thst come off due to lack of proper wrist straps securing them. Armour that moves too much doesn’t protect from impacts as well as it should. And jackets that don’t fit properly round the waist (and ideally zip to the pants) can slide up leaving you exposed to the tarmac…

Luckily, Dr Ron Woods of Cambridge University working with several UK high end bespoke motorbike leather manufacturers and the Police Riders they provided protective kit for developed the Cambridge Standard In the late 1980’s / early 1990’s. This was based on extensive lab testing and real world experience looking at abrasion resistance, seam burst strength, cut tests, impact protection, security of kit in a crash, comfort, movement etc . This standard later formed the basis of the European Unions CE mark testing regime which has continued to evolve since.

So you don’t have to be, or become, an expert in assessing motorbike protective clothing, or even ask the internet. You just have to buy CE marked kit (and ensure it relates to the whole garment, not just the armour and that the CE standard quoted relates to motorbike protective kit not something like it’s waterproofness). You can google it, but this link gives you more info on the standard to start with in an easy to read journalist written format..

Motorcycle clothing: The CE approval law explained

All motorcycle clothing is now PPE in the UK, but will that make it more expensive, will we ignore it after Brexit, and does it mean you don’t pay VAT?

www.bennetts.co.uk

Having said all that, it’s a personal decision what to wear when riding. Riding a motorbike is a risky thing in itself and that’s a personal choice too. Everyone has to decide for themselves whether to ride and what to wear (whilst complying with relevant laws eg on helmet use) when doing so. It’s your hide, your choice. When I was younger, dumber and poorer I rode in all kinds of unsuitable rubbish mostly ‘cos it’s all I could afford. Now I’m older, wiser and less poor I only ride in high quality kit specifically designed for the purpose, made by companies that make proper bike kit (not fashion kit). Vanson and BKS mainly.

Personally I’d wear a goatskin jacket, but only one specifically made as protective kit for motorbike riding. I wouldn’t ride in an A2, G1 etc as they’re not designed for this. Apart from all the issues with lack of proper seams/lack or armour etc I highly doubt an elasticated waist is going to stop such a jacket riding up in a crash whilst you sandpaper your back on the asphalt. Just my view of course, but try putting a belt sander on your lower back if you‘re unsure whether it’s time to get and use a proper motorbike jacket that will stay put in a crash... Vanson do lots of good ones that fit brilliantly on the bike, protect well in crashes (as I can attest) look cool imo and they have various insulated and vented options etc if you need something that won’t get too hot or cold…

safe riding

YF

 

[Fifty150]

The difference between goatskin and other leathers is minimal when skidding on asphalt at high rates of speed.

You could be correct. I don't want to find out firsthand.

 

[Peter Mackin]

Goatskin, if properly selected, tanned and of appropriate thickness for the purpose is not a bad choice for motorbike use, though it’s not all that common. It’s one of the strongest leathers thickness for thickness (beaten by kangaroo only I think). It’s a bit more water resistant than cow/steer too, all else equal. But the size of the skins are smaller (so more seams and higher costs) and it’s not as thick as cow/steer. It gets used in motorbike gloves a fair bit (where thinner leather helps with bulk/feel) though kangaroo is better still so that’s taking over at least at the higher end. And it can be good in eg motorbike pants given comfort issues with thick leather trousers, though it’s pretty rare. Ditto on jackets (I think Langlitz are one of the few ‘proper’ motorbike leather manufacturers that still make regular use if it.)

All that said, the material (various textiles, various different leathers etc) used is just one factor In how protective motorbike kit is In a crash. Number, placing and stitching of seams is crucial. The thickest toughest leather in the world won’t protect you if the seam bursts due to eg lack of hidden stitching/the wrong kind if thread and construction methods…. Reinforcement in areas in high impact zones (elbows, shoulders, bum, outer thigh knees etc are important too. Armour in these areas (and a decent back protector) adds some impact protection and further slide protection (in my one crash - a 100mph off at a track day - I got through TWO layers of Vanson’s old competition weight hide on one shoulder, but the armour underneath saved me from any injury. The jacket lives on after some professional repair which is another advantage of thicker leathers - they’ll survive more crashes than you will).

Another factor in motorbike kit design is comfort. The thickest and best stitched leathers won’t protect you when they are hung in the wardrobe whilst you ride in something else because the leathers are too uncomfortable/hot/cold/ whatever. And if you do wear them but overheat/freeze and/or are exhausted/distracted by the restrictive discomfort of stiff badly patterned riding kit then you may be more likely to crash In the first place.

Style (or lack thereof) may also be a factor. A cool looking jacket that you think fits your style/type of bike/style of riding you do may be more likely to get worn than one you don’t feel good in. Personally I think wearing the right kit for the job always looks cool, but not everyone agrees…

Lastly your kit needs to stay where it’s meant to under the enormous forces that a crash can put them under. A helmet that flies off doesn’t protect the user (helmets that come off are unsurprisingly associated with a lot of fatal accidents), nor do gloves thst come off due to lack of proper wrist straps securing them. Armour that moves too much doesn’t protect from impacts as well as it should. And jackets that don’t fit properly round the waist (and ideally zip to the pants) can slide up leaving you exposed to the tarmac…

Luckily, Dr Ron Woods of Cambridge University working with several UK high end bespoke motorbike leather manufacturers and the Police Riders they provided protective kit for developed the Cambridge Standard In the late 1980’s / early 1990’s. This was based on extensive lab testing and real world experience looking at abrasion resistance, seam burst strength, cut tests, impact protection, security of kit in a crash, comfort, movement etc . This standard later formed the basis of the European Unions CE mark testing regime which has continued to evolve since.

So you don’t have to be, or become, an expert in assessing motorbike protective clothing, or even ask the internet. You just have to buy CE marked kit (and ensure it relates to the whole garment, not just the armour and that the CE standard quoted relates to motorbike protective kit not something like it’s waterproofness). You can google it, but this link gives you more info on the standard to start with in an easy to read journalist written format..

Motorcycle clothing: The CE approval law explained

All motorcycle clothing is now PPE in the UK, but will that make it more expensive, will we ignore it after Brexit, and does it mean you don’t pay VAT?

www.bennetts.co.uk

Having said all that, it’s a personal decision what to wear when riding. Riding a motorbike is a risky thing in itself and that’s a personal choice too. Everyone has to decide for themselves whether to ride and what to wear (whilst complying with relevant laws eg on helmet use) when doing so. It’s your hide, your choice. When I was younger, dumber and poorer I rode in all kinds of unsuitable rubbish mostly ‘cos it’s all I could afford. Now I’m older, wiser and less poor I only ride in high quality kit specifically designed for the purpose, made by companies that make proper bike kit (not fashion kit). Vanson and BKS mainly.

Personally I’d wear a goatskin jacket, but only one specifically made as protective kit for motorbike riding. I wouldn’t ride in an A2, G1 etc as they’re not designed for this. Apart from all the issues with lack of proper seams/lack or armour etc I highly doubt an elasticated waist is going to stop such a jacket riding up in a crash whilst you sandpaper your back on the asphalt. Just my view of course, but try putting a belt sander on your lower back if you‘re unsure whether it’s time to get and use a proper motorbike jacket that will stay put in a crash... Vanson do lots of good ones that fit brilliantly on the bike, protect well in crashes (as I can attest) look cool imo and they have various insulated and vented options etc if you need something that won’t get too hot or cold…

safe riding

YF

Brilliant answer, covers everything.