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I'll Lock Up
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The thought of my grandfathers landing and fighting at Gallipoli every April 25th
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Give your patriotism a boost here: Share what makes you feel patriotic
- Thread starter Cousin Hepcat
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- METROPOLIS OF EUROPA
There are a few members here from Northern Ireland.
Ken and Edward immediately spring to mind, and I have no doubt that being brought up in an environment such as 'The Province' (as it's commonly known), has conditioned them, as it has me, to take nationalism and patriotism very seriously. It's very much part and parcel of the very fibre and fabric of our society and of our nature in being born and bred in that little green corner of six counties in Ireland, united or divided by the Union Jack.
Growing up in a country where you had to have a body search before going into the shopping centre and then before going into each shop. Having bombs going off and hearing sniper fire. Having armed soldiers and police patrolling the streets, or being confronted by a gang of youths who demand 'which foot do you kick with' (and the answer determines whether you walk away or not), all that focuses 'you' on where your loyalty lies and what patriotism means to 'you.' Because like it or not, you are on one side or another, you are in effect for one country and belief or another (no luxury of sitting on fences).
I'm just one of many thousands of conundrums that make up the United Kingdom. Four main Kingdoms (Scotland, Ireland, Wales, England),are united under one flag (the Union Jack)- in theory anyway.
Not really so different to say the United States, with all their own little kingdoms (States) with regional identities, flags, governments, laws, religions..etc, etc - but still with allegiance and loyalty to one flag that unites and bonds ALL into ONE NATION.
I happen to be an Irishman who has the nationality of being British.
I'm conditioned to be proud to be British and love all the 'pomp and circumstance' like Last Night at the Proms and Trooping the Colour and Royal Weddings or Remembrance Sunday in London and will wave that little flag with the best of them!!
But the Irishness in me loves to see 'Norn Iron' give England a thrashing at Windsor Park, or the Irish Rugby team triumph at Landsdown Road, Dublin, or listen to The Pogues or The Fureys, have a shin dig in the local pub with the smell of turf burning in the fire and a pint of the black stuff nestling in my hand...and that makes the Irishness in me proud to have that natural green stuff running in my veins.
So my patriotism is a mixture of things, a cocktail of ingredients if you like, that gets 'shaken AND stirred' by many things.
Ken and Edward immediately spring to mind, and I have no doubt that being brought up in an environment such as 'The Province' (as it's commonly known), has conditioned them, as it has me, to take nationalism and patriotism very seriously. It's very much part and parcel of the very fibre and fabric of our society and of our nature in being born and bred in that little green corner of six counties in Ireland, united or divided by the Union Jack.
Growing up in a country where you had to have a body search before going into the shopping centre and then before going into each shop. Having bombs going off and hearing sniper fire. Having armed soldiers and police patrolling the streets, or being confronted by a gang of youths who demand 'which foot do you kick with' (and the answer determines whether you walk away or not), all that focuses 'you' on where your loyalty lies and what patriotism means to 'you.' Because like it or not, you are on one side or another, you are in effect for one country and belief or another (no luxury of sitting on fences).
I'm just one of many thousands of conundrums that make up the United Kingdom. Four main Kingdoms (Scotland, Ireland, Wales, England),are united under one flag (the Union Jack)- in theory anyway.
Not really so different to say the United States, with all their own little kingdoms (States) with regional identities, flags, governments, laws, religions..etc, etc - but still with allegiance and loyalty to one flag that unites and bonds ALL into ONE NATION.
I happen to be an Irishman who has the nationality of being British.
I'm conditioned to be proud to be British and love all the 'pomp and circumstance' like Last Night at the Proms and Trooping the Colour and Royal Weddings or Remembrance Sunday in London and will wave that little flag with the best of them!!
But the Irishness in me loves to see 'Norn Iron' give England a thrashing at Windsor Park, or the Irish Rugby team triumph at Landsdown Road, Dublin, or listen to The Pogues or The Fureys, have a shin dig in the local pub with the smell of turf burning in the fire and a pint of the black stuff nestling in my hand...and that makes the Irishness in me proud to have that natural green stuff running in my veins.
So my patriotism is a mixture of things, a cocktail of ingredients if you like, that gets 'shaken AND stirred' by many things.
Dragon Soldier
One of the Regulars
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Very well put Paddy.
I have a French friend who seems perplexed by the fact that my home is bedecked with the emblems of various regiments of the British Army and yet I can be found on the terraces upon occasion belting out '"Ireland's Call" with a tear in my eye (and usually a pint in my hand).
I usually quote British Citizen, Irish Nationality... Some people get it, some don't!
I have a French friend who seems perplexed by the fact that my home is bedecked with the emblems of various regiments of the British Army and yet I can be found on the terraces upon occasion belting out '"Ireland's Call" with a tear in my eye (and usually a pint in my hand).
I usually quote British Citizen, Irish Nationality... Some people get it, some don't!
LondonLuke
One of the Regulars
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No flags please, we're British. Whilst I love my country, and felt midly patriotic when I was attested into the TA, I fail to understand the rather extreme patriotism many Americans possess. I always felt that the flags everywhere and videos were embarrasingly sentimental. I guess that's just my British reserve coming through though[huh]
tuppence
Practically Family
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Don't mean to be rude
But in my neck of the woods
Patriotism= brainwashing
But in my neck of the woods
Patriotism= brainwashing
Edward
Bartender
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Story said:
I think a lot of it has to do with cultural circumstance - as others have said, here in Europe during WW2 we did experience the very worst of what nationalism can do, and a wariness of 'wrapping ourselves in the flag' has, I think ,crept into our DNA as a result. Paddy also puts very well some of the reasons why many of us who grew up in the Six Counties are wary of it - partly self preservsation, and partly instilled cynicism seeing what it did to people there on both sides, not to mention the indiginity forf many of us of having what we perceive as our culture and traditions cheapened to mere political footballs by so many on both sides of the fence. The USA is a different beast in so many ways. I do love much of what the US stnads for, at least in theory. Course, like the rest of us, the practice is much harder. Aren't swe all the same?
A salient point. Without taking too much of a turn into politics, I do think that I personally would find much mor to believe in a State where authority derived from "We, the people" as opposed to trickling down from an arbitrary bloodline.
Very interesting to see the many diferent opinions among loungers - and once again so heartening to have found a small corner of the interweb where such things can be discussed without it becoming a slanging match.
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As I walked across the battle scarred land of The Somme...
Some earlier rainfall had soaked the freshly ploughed fields and you got a 'little bit of an idea' of how the mud could claw and suck at your boots as you traversed across.
Having just visited one of the many military cemetaries dotted around the area, many of them holding the young bodies of Irishmen of both religions and patriotic/nationalistic 'beliefs,' it was somewhat moving and sobering too, when one of the group said something to the effect of,
"Funny isn't it, how so many Irishmen died as equals and brothers together in this mud despite their different beliefs. Did you know that if you mix orange and green coloured paints, you get a colour very similar to this awful mud?"
The mud was the enduring feature of this landscape and this battle that bonded all these different men of orange and green together as brothers-in-arms, and made them realise that their hopes and fears and loves and dreams weren't all that different and as Irishmen they had more in common than they gave credit. That makes me feel patriotic too. I am a patriot and a bloodline to that MUD coloured flag of those heroes who went before me in Flanders Fields.
Some earlier rainfall had soaked the freshly ploughed fields and you got a 'little bit of an idea' of how the mud could claw and suck at your boots as you traversed across.
Having just visited one of the many military cemetaries dotted around the area, many of them holding the young bodies of Irishmen of both religions and patriotic/nationalistic 'beliefs,' it was somewhat moving and sobering too, when one of the group said something to the effect of,
"Funny isn't it, how so many Irishmen died as equals and brothers together in this mud despite their different beliefs. Did you know that if you mix orange and green coloured paints, you get a colour very similar to this awful mud?"
The mud was the enduring feature of this landscape and this battle that bonded all these different men of orange and green together as brothers-in-arms, and made them realise that their hopes and fears and loves and dreams weren't all that different and as Irishmen they had more in common than they gave credit. That makes me feel patriotic too. I am a patriot and a bloodline to that MUD coloured flag of those heroes who went before me in Flanders Fields.
vitanola
I'll Lock Up
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Edward said:
If patriotic sentiment is wanted
I've patriotic ballads cut and dried.
Where e're our country's banners may be planted
All other local banners are defied!
Our warriors in serried ranks assembled,
Never quail (or they conceal it if they do)
And I shouldn't be suprised if nations trembled
Before the mighty troops, the troops of Titipu!
HarpPlayerGene
I'll Lock Up
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What makes me feel "Patriotic"
Absolutely great thread people!
1) Traveling outside of the U.S. and realizing that although I live humbly by our standards I am extremely fortunate. Not superior, but fortunate.
2) Considering the notion that patriotism may not define only as being blindly proud of a name of a particular geographically delineated landmass, but rather a form of deep gratitude for all the efforts of all the people who have contributed to genuine improvements within a country and culture, past and present.
3) When, during, I believe it was the 60th anniversary of the Allied landing at Normandy, elderly Marine veterans from D-Day were in northern France for a celebration and the French people turned out en-masse with many United States of America flags waving, and an old soldier who was being led around by a young French girl leaned over and pinned his medals on her. Sniff.
4) Reading this thread and realizing that although it had the potential to get adversarial, it did not. I feel not only a patriotic pride about that but a kinship with the international posters for we have all displayed the class and decorum that are the hallmarks of civilization at its best, whether it be American, Canadian, British, Danish, et al.
5) Zippo lighters, Smith & Wesson revolvers, Stetson hats, Gibson guitars, old Chrysler muscle-cars, and everything about Major League Baseball - less the steroids.
Absolutely great thread people!
1) Traveling outside of the U.S. and realizing that although I live humbly by our standards I am extremely fortunate. Not superior, but fortunate.
2) Considering the notion that patriotism may not define only as being blindly proud of a name of a particular geographically delineated landmass, but rather a form of deep gratitude for all the efforts of all the people who have contributed to genuine improvements within a country and culture, past and present.
3) When, during, I believe it was the 60th anniversary of the Allied landing at Normandy, elderly Marine veterans from D-Day were in northern France for a celebration and the French people turned out en-masse with many United States of America flags waving, and an old soldier who was being led around by a young French girl leaned over and pinned his medals on her. Sniff.
4) Reading this thread and realizing that although it had the potential to get adversarial, it did not. I feel not only a patriotic pride about that but a kinship with the international posters for we have all displayed the class and decorum that are the hallmarks of civilization at its best, whether it be American, Canadian, British, Danish, et al.
5) Zippo lighters, Smith & Wesson revolvers, Stetson hats, Gibson guitars, old Chrysler muscle-cars, and everything about Major League Baseball - less the steroids.
patrick1987
One of the Regulars
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Count me in for voting as well.
Baron Kurtz
I'll Lock Up
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reetpleat said:
That comes from being founded by Whigs and Tories. No escaping it, unfortunately.
Re: what makes me feel patriotic. If i am patriotic at all, and that is quite an issue that i have yet to consolidate, it is towards a European patiotism. I feel proud that finally (at least to some extent) all these dysfunctional siblings - Germany, France, UK, Ireland, et alia - can come together under a single banner and deal with our problems through (mostly) non-military means. Despite the claims of some in the new world: WE are the home of democracy - ancient and modern form. WE are the home of freedom. WE are the home of Parliamentary government. These are things to be proud of. Intellectually proud. Blind anything is useless.
If the above seems nuanced, so be it. These issues ARE nuanced. No matter what you're taught in constitution class, blind adherence to what you're expected to think is not healthy.
bk
Miss 1929
My Mail is Forwarded Here
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Rosie said:
And that is why you are a great American, and people like you make me proud. Nothing is more important to the future of our troubled country than to give our youth a fighting chance.
You go, girl!
Spitfire
I'll Lock Up
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Baron Kurtz said:
Well spoken, Baron K:eusa_clap :eusa_clap
LadyDeWinter
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Baron, I fully agree with you.
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Yes. I've read it a dozen times - rather brilliant.
Dragon Soldier
One of the Regulars
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With reference to our local issues, I've been trying to track this quote down since I saw Paddy's post...
"And let the orange lily be
Your badge, my patriot brother
It's the everlasting green for me
And we for one another "
"And let the orange lily be
Your badge, my patriot brother
It's the everlasting green for me
And we for one another "
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I think in the states, at least among its citizens, patriotism here seems to be more commonly defined simply in visual terms. How blatantly, loudly, and forthrightly can you display any form of Americana?
Weather it be the flag (if people knew the real way/conditions to display the flag, that would surprise me), or the many colored ribbons that seems to abound in stores, to the trite discussion over the airwaves of a silly flag pin.
To me, in modern America, being patriotic (or at least the limits to which we can be in these times) means taking forth the effort and added cost to seek and purchase American made goods, investigating others issues, even if you wholeheartedly disagree, because being myopic is a handicap. Helping the poor and being integrated in your community.
Often in the past times we love, people had community service tasks as often as we watch football now. Knowing and practicing interdependence. Cornerstone things like that, that have no party, racial or language line.
Voting!
Thats all I can think of now
LD
Weather it be the flag (if people knew the real way/conditions to display the flag, that would surprise me), or the many colored ribbons that seems to abound in stores, to the trite discussion over the airwaves of a silly flag pin.
To me, in modern America, being patriotic (or at least the limits to which we can be in these times) means taking forth the effort and added cost to seek and purchase American made goods, investigating others issues, even if you wholeheartedly disagree, because being myopic is a handicap. Helping the poor and being integrated in your community.
Often in the past times we love, people had community service tasks as often as we watch football now. Knowing and practicing interdependence. Cornerstone things like that, that have no party, racial or language line.
Voting!
Thats all I can think of now
LD
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I would never judge what patriotism is and is not in the hearts of other people. In fact, it is one of the wonderful things about it; it is one of the nebulous concepts; we all think we know what it means, but have a terribly difficult time sitting down to define it.
But if I may attempt to define it for myself and not resort to a dictionary definition.
Certainly, blind obedience is not patriotism. Neither is it a competitive spirit; a means by which to besmirch other people and cultures. These are the pitfalls of Nationalism.
Now that I have established what it is not, it is time to address what it is. Patriotism is a love of place, a love of the people, institutions, and laws that comprise our country. It is the affection of the shared histories, the shining ideals and the dreams we collectively strive for. It is a celebration of the accomplishments we have made and the reassuring hand during the disappointments we have suffered.
It is a love for the place where we live, rich with the knowledge that this is the one place we can effect, we can change, we can influence. That living under these laws and institutions gives us a voice in how they affect our lives. It is the hope, and undying dream, that if we work hard, if we are steadfast and focused, one day, one shining day, this nation will balance the needs of men with the rules of law and serve as a model for peace, justice and liberty around the globe.
I wish this for each nation on earth.
As for what makes me feel particularly patriotic, July 4th, The Boston Pops at the Hatch Shell, Keith Lockhart leading to orchestra through God Bless America, even "The 1812 Overture," ironically enough! -With fireworks going off overhead! That's America!
But if I may attempt to define it for myself and not resort to a dictionary definition.
Certainly, blind obedience is not patriotism. Neither is it a competitive spirit; a means by which to besmirch other people and cultures. These are the pitfalls of Nationalism.
Now that I have established what it is not, it is time to address what it is. Patriotism is a love of place, a love of the people, institutions, and laws that comprise our country. It is the affection of the shared histories, the shining ideals and the dreams we collectively strive for. It is a celebration of the accomplishments we have made and the reassuring hand during the disappointments we have suffered.
It is a love for the place where we live, rich with the knowledge that this is the one place we can effect, we can change, we can influence. That living under these laws and institutions gives us a voice in how they affect our lives. It is the hope, and undying dream, that if we work hard, if we are steadfast and focused, one day, one shining day, this nation will balance the needs of men with the rules of law and serve as a model for peace, justice and liberty around the globe.
I wish this for each nation on earth.
As for what makes me feel particularly patriotic, July 4th, The Boston Pops at the Hatch Shell, Keith Lockhart leading to orchestra through God Bless America, even "The 1812 Overture," ironically enough! -With fireworks going off overhead! That's America!
Chas
One Too Many
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Dictionary result for patriot...
1. a person who loves, supports, and defends his or her country and its interests with devotion.
2. a person who regards himself or herself as a defender, esp. of individual rights, against presumed interference by the federal government.
I thought that politics was banned. Patriotism is certainly political.
I was patriotic at a time in my life. I'm happy to say that I've matured beyond that. I think that I could be happy pretty much anywhere that respects my lifestyle, opinions and basic human rights, and the needs of the rest of the people that share my neighbours, whether they live down the street, or anywhere else for that matter.
A true patriot should be allowed to lambaste his country without fear of censure or threat -i.e. The Dixie Chicks are patriots, though many of their countrymen feel otherwise. Being Canadian, I could stop to catalog my country's faults and misdeeds, but I'll leave that for some other time and place. Personally, I agree with the quote "Canadians have morals and standards, but they always find a way around them". Or something like that.
A country is an artifice, nothing more. It is an artificial (meaning man-made) creation. Basic human nature crosses boundaries.
All in all, my shortlist of countries that I could happily call home would include: (in order of preference)
Canada
Australia
New Zealand
The United States
Ireland
The U.K.
Japan
So I guess I'm not really a patriot. I think that, like Religion, patriotism inevitably leads to too dark a path. I prefer to think of myself as an internationalist.
EDIT: This is wonderful! Leo Tolstoy on Patriotism.
Patriotism or Peace
1. a person who loves, supports, and defends his or her country and its interests with devotion.
2. a person who regards himself or herself as a defender, esp. of individual rights, against presumed interference by the federal government.
I thought that politics was banned. Patriotism is certainly political.
I was patriotic at a time in my life. I'm happy to say that I've matured beyond that. I think that I could be happy pretty much anywhere that respects my lifestyle, opinions and basic human rights, and the needs of the rest of the people that share my neighbours, whether they live down the street, or anywhere else for that matter.
A true patriot should be allowed to lambaste his country without fear of censure or threat -i.e. The Dixie Chicks are patriots, though many of their countrymen feel otherwise. Being Canadian, I could stop to catalog my country's faults and misdeeds, but I'll leave that for some other time and place. Personally, I agree with the quote "Canadians have morals and standards, but they always find a way around them". Or something like that.
A country is an artifice, nothing more. It is an artificial (meaning man-made) creation. Basic human nature crosses boundaries.
All in all, my shortlist of countries that I could happily call home would include: (in order of preference)
Canada
Australia
New Zealand
The United States
Ireland
The U.K.
Japan
So I guess I'm not really a patriot. I think that, like Religion, patriotism inevitably leads to too dark a path. I prefer to think of myself as an internationalist.
EDIT: This is wonderful! Leo Tolstoy on Patriotism.
Patriotism or Peace
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