Girls banned from wearing skirts at school

[Biltmore Bob]

And, the patent leather shoes, white knee high socks...no BT you did not help any...

 

[BellyTank]

Well, it seems quite plain to me that they DO already have a school uniform.
This policy is being considered within the school uniform policy.
Nobody said there was a crime in looking like the gender you are...
It still seems based upon practicality and uniformity, not about looks.
The criteria that caused the consideration of the new policy has been brought about by teachers and school Governors, some of which are surely the students' parents and apparently the students also had input. If teachers, students and parents are for it , then OK- who else should decide what's best for them?
Not us surely...
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[jamespowers]

Well, it seems quite plain to me that they DO already have a school uniform.
This policy is being considered within the school uniform policy.
Nobody said there was a crime in looking like the gender you are...
It still seems based upon practicality and uniformity, not about looks.
The criteria that caused the consideration of the new policy has been brought about by teachers and school Governors, some of which are surely the students' parents and apparently the students also had input. If teachers, students and parents are for it , then OK- who else should decide what's best for them?
Not us surely...

They have a "dress code" not a uniform. There is a difference. In the code there are various choices. In a uniform there are no choices. That is just the way it is---no optional parts and no color choices.
Second of all, where does it say it was brought about by parents and teachers? The quote I mentioned above says "supportable by all concerned - parents, pupils, staff and Governors." It doesn't say brought about by. :kick: It is just "designed to be" supported by those groups. It doesn't say it is "overwhelmingly supported by the parents teachers and staff" anywhere. If it did then it would be their choice. In fact, the BBC article says: "Some parents are unhappy at the ban and think that it has been imposed because some girls were wearing short skirts."
I have found that, in my dealings with school districts and such, they do whatever they feel like and tell you what they have decided after they have decided it. This sounds no different.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Brad Bowers]

There was talk a while back about instituting a dress code for teachers in one school district here in Utah. Seems the teachers were dressing just as bad as the students. The teachers didn't necessarily like the idea of a dress code. Maybe they don't consider themselves professional!

Brad

 

[BellyTank]

Yes, they DO actually have a school uniform.
If you read the dress policy again you'll hopefully realise this.
Look at points b,d,e,f and g in the dress thing-
The 'no jeans, etc' is just removing the loopholes from the dress code which is a uniform, probably defined by colour and garment type- if the uniform trousers should be black, then they don't want cords or cargos or black jeans to be worn, they want more formal and generic clothing. That's what I read from the text- There are some sound reasons for putting teenagers in uniforms.
They do indeed have a uniform. My High School had a uniform too and the same kind of clothing exceptions-

The Board of Governors is made up of parents, community and educators.
Some parents disagreed with the proposal blaming 'too-short' (uniform) skirts.
Of course students have concerns either way, that's easy to believe.

I still don't see anything wrong with modifying the school uniform to be more suitable for all concerned.

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[Matt Deckard]

"I still don't see anything wrong with modifying the school uniform to be more suitable for all concerned."

Should girls be banned from ever wearing skirts in favor of pants?

 

[jamespowers]

Fine.
I can see that I am not going to convince you and you are certainly not going to convince me.
I think I would wear the gray socks over the white ones though, no tie...may be the black tie...no maybe the blue stripe tie. Then I would have to decide if I want pleated front or flat front trousers. I wonder if I would wear black toe caps or wingtips. Maybe oxfords. Gee, this uniform has so many choices. I wonder how "uniform" I might actually look.
I could even see modifying the school dress code to allow students to arrive in Orwellian overalls, tennis shoes and dickeys too because it would be more comfortable and suitable for all concerned. Big Brother would like that. They are all the same They wouldn't even have to have a PE dress code. It could be used for all purposes.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

At the private school I attended, all the boys had to wear blue cotton slacks and a white buttondown or polo shirt, single-colored socks and a belt. Girls could either wear the exact same thing, or one of those grey/black/white patterned pleated skirts with the outfit. Younger girls in the elementary school could wear those sort of "blouse" skirts with the two straps over the shoulders.

In all the years I went there, there was never an issue with the girls wearing skirts. Nobody ever complained that I know of. Some girls wore skirts most of the time, some wore pants most of the time.

And for gym, there was a separate uniform which we changed into which was identical for girls and boys.

 

[Zach R.]

Seeing as I am still in High school, I might as well add my .02 about dress codes.

(I am probably in the minority in my generation, but I dislike the over-casualness of todays society as much as some of the older members here. That being said...)

If you don't look past the surface/facade of the "Code of Conduct" of every school in my area, you'd think that they have the strictest dress codes ever: no skirts/shorts shorter than mid-thigh, no pants below waist, yada yada yada.

And they would, but I know of no school in the radius of 50 miles that actually enforces virtually any part of the dress code that they waste 50 pages of paper on in a little booklet to give to every student and their parents each year.

You could walk down the hall and you'd see people actually coming to school in those flannel pajama pants(usually with an obscene word over the rear), hotpants on the girls(I even saw one in men's swimtrunks); and on the guys you have wife-beaters, t-shirts with alcohol/drug promotions, or pants low enough that you could see approximately 2/3rds of their underpants! All of which were clearly banned in the dress code.

Years ago, my middle school actually banned flip flops after a few isolated incidents happened in the halls and some students were injured. Oh, sure, they banned them but that stopped no one from wearing them and nobody did anything else about it after the "ban."

This may seem long winded and pointless, but my point is that the schools make their dress codes seem like a big deal(and if implemented, would be) but don't enforce them after all of the pomp and circumstance over them.

 

[Deleted member 259]

I've been in co-ed Private school my entire life. Nuns, plaid skirts & White blouse, the whole deal.
In Highschool, Our dresscode was the option of a winter & summer skirt or Kakhi pants. There was a separate Gym uniform which we ignored.
When skirt length became an issue (before my time) they added blue stockings/nylons to the dress code. - But no matter how short the girls rolled the skirts, we always wore shorts underneath.

My skirt (a couple inches above the knee) was nowhere as short as many of my classmates - But I can't remember a girl ever wearing the pants. It was just something you didn't do. The shorts underneath our skirts paired with blue stockings offered about as much coverage as we cared to have.

I can't imagine my school ever forsaking the traditional uniform for the sake of a bunch of PC equality BS.
Isn't the goal of schools not only to teach classes, but also to try and instill morals such as modesty and self respect rather than create more rules to disregard?
If girls have to wear the same uniform as boys, I forsee that terrible trend of Baggy Pants hanging off the wearers backside becoming a little more popular. Or perhaps super-tight instead.

 

[BellyTank]

JP

By the way JP, you're a CAB!

Maybe it's not clear to you but in the context of England and English schools, it's quite obvious that the school has a uniform. I know for a fact that this school has a regular school uniform- be convinced- accept the fact and then the rest is easier to stomach. I lived in England for many years and have some understanding of this issue. Trousers as uniform have been available to Girls for a long time.
You can actually understand that they have a uniform from reading the school dress guide, even though the word 'uniform' doesn't appear in the text you posted. As I mentioned- that list is loophole-filling.
There is actually a photo of a girl in school uniform in the article but no mention of the word 'uniform'- it's not perfect journalism- confusing the issue and the readers- maybe not aimed at Americans and a lack of knowledge of British schooling. In Britain, readers would probably understand from the context that there is a uniform at this school.
The word 'ban' is also a stupid choice, it's not a ban of skirts per se, it's more of a deletion of uniform skirts from the uniform code- a modification of school uniform policy and rules. Semantics but could have been better worded. If the article was engineered to create a knee-jerk reaction, it certainly has- among Americans at least.
The 'skirt ban' sounds maybe more outrageous without the context of the uniform. A skirt is often optional in these type of schools, trousers are already available to Girls. All the school are doing is taking away the option of wearing the skirt.
Within the context of 'a school having a uniform', the concept is easier to understand- they can do whatever they want.

Uniforms are used in England to promote a school identity and maintain an essence of discipline and to avoid competition and aggrevation between students based on family economy- if modifications to the uniform code are going to help then it seems kind of reasonable to me, although quite harsh perhaps. Maybe PC at work for sure- but in this world, if someone complains, the matter must be addressed somehow.
It seems from what I've seen in Enhland and read just now that across the English school system, young girls are quite comfortable wearing pants- it's nothing new at all.

This is the type of uniform they have- see the trousers-

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[jitterbugdoll]

I think the real question here is--why are they *really* taking away this option of wearing a skirt? All uniform issues aside, were they having issues with the boys being able to 'control' themselves? An issue with the boys complaining that girls can wear things they can't (this issue came up in my public school, and for a brief time in the early-mid 90s you saw quite a few guys who took to wearing skirts 'just because'.) Was it simply an issue of some girls taking advantage of the rules? Plenty of American catholic schools require uniforms, and as Carpecaligo pointed out, quite a few girls wear their skirts as short as possible just for the sake of being rebellious and raising a few eyebrows. Perhaps that is what happened here--and the school either could not or would not enforce this rule, and instead chose to ban wearing skirts altogether. Zach also noted an important point—many uniforms/dress codes are written and put into effect, but not officially enforced. Conservatism is not something limited to England, and I do know that Catholic schools in America, who have equally strict uniform rules, have not sent students home even when they broke these rules. Why, I used to be friends with a girl who attended catholic school along with her older sister. Let me tell you, her sister dressed very inappropriately, and wore her skirts ultra short and with very goth/punk accessorizing (duct tape, combat boots heavily smudged eyeliner--a very non-'good catholic schoolgirl' look). And yet, I don’t think she was ever sent home because of her fashion choices…therefore, I wouldn’t be surprised if the ‘no skirts’ rule was a byproduct of girls taking advantage of the system—a rule change thinly veiled in the form of ‘gender equality’.

 

[BellyTank]

Well, we'll likely never know-
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[ITG]

Anyway, out here we had a parent protest--and win--against a teacher who failed a senior because she did not complete her work (makes perfect sense to me--you don’t do the work, you don’t get to graduate with those that did their job!) The school board overruled the teacher and let this girl graduate--and the teacher promptly quit (which I would have done, too.) What kind of society have we created? How can we expect teachers and schools to instill the values in our children (dress, attitude, work ethics, etc.) that should be taught at home?

Oh man alive! As a teacher that infuriates me and I would have quit too. So many times parents want to challenge fair rules because they think their child is an exception to the rule. If the child doesn't put forth the effort, then by all means, they get what they deserve.

I now teach in the same school district I grew up in. Back in the early 1990s, I got caught with my shorts being too short (they weren't at my knees!). I was buying a size up to get it long enough because I was taller than then average teenager. Well, now the districts policy has changed. Shorts must be at the fingertip of your longest finger. Skirts must be halfway between the knee and the finger tips. Teachers are expected to adhere to this same policy of course.

BT, deleting the choice of wearing a skirt sure does sound like a banning to me. Not saying you're wrong, but just calling it like I see it. My humble opinion. Just like if I'm not allowed to chew gum in class, then that sounds like it's banned to me.

Oh a few years ago, my half sisters' district instituted a uniform policy. Well, my dad searched everywhere for the proper clothes requested. Well, just about everyplace he went, they were sold out. So he told the school that the girls may have to start the year without a uniform. He was told that they would not be able to come to school until they had a uniform. Needlesstosay, he was not happy. I told him I didn't think a school could deny a child an education because they didn't have the proper uniform on. (I'm not talking in regards to breaking dress code in relation to length.) He finally found some appropriate clothes, but had to search all over for it.

 

[BellyTank]

Doesn't seem like so much of a 'ban' when they're taking away one of two enforced options. 'Ban' just seems like a dumb choice of words to use in this case. Doesn't really matter.
But if people can see that there is a umiform in use at this school the situation is vastly different from if they had no uniform at all.
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[Matt Deckard]

You can use weapons, though you just can't use guns... we're not banning guns, you just can't use them.

 

[BellyTank]

Like I said, it's a stupid word to use.
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[jamespowers]

You can use weapons, though you just can't use guns... we're not banning guns, you just can't use them.

More like: you can use your head just not the brains inside it.

Regards to all,

J

 

[BellyTank]

Remember that this is within an individual institutional and regarding a piece of school uniform and its perceived disadvantages within that institution.
That is the context.
There doesn't seem any more life left in this topic.
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[Jen]

Too bad they won't let the boys wear kilts...

In my high school, around 1975, there was a rule that girls could not wear pants, meaning everything from jeans to proper dress slacks. One young woman had an after school job at a rather up-scale boutique. She came to school one day wearing (according to the teacher who told the story to me) dress slacks, a silk blouse, pearls, etc. (A deliberate slap in the face of authority, no doubt!) She was marched to principal's office, where they demanded that she go home and change. Instead, she borrowed a cheeleader friend's half leotard and transformed her silk blouse into a mini-dress (actually longer than the costumes worn by the cheerleaders). The policy was promptly changed.

In my day, a friend of mine who was wont to dress in '30s style was sent to the principal's office for wearing "a costume to school." Luckily, his dad was a lawyer.