aswatland
My Mail is Forwarded Here
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- 3,338
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- Kent, England
Glad I'm not a lone voice in strongly advising you not to buy this jacket. Save up for a high end repro. It will be worth the wait.
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Getting my US Authentic A-2-ADVICE ON DETAILS
- Thread starter USAAFAcePilot
- Start date
kampkatz
Practically Family
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- 715
- Location
- Central Pennsylvania
We've seen all sides thoughtfully discussed. Isn't it time to move on?[huh]
Creeping Past
One Too Many
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- 1,567
- Location
- England
kampkatz said:
Without wishing to appear rude, I'd say that's for individual FL members and/or bartenders to decide, not you.
In any event, adding such a post merely elongates a thread you find uninteresting...
Fiver64
Practically Family
- Messages
- 670
- Location
- Fountain City, WI
Assuming.......
Respectfully, with the generous weighing in of many proven experts, while I fully agree with the intent and the wisdom, most are ASSUMING that all of us will eventually end up with a high-end jacket (if we just wait and save our pennys), the fact may be that some of us will NEVER be able to afford one, nor do we aspire such detail. A mid-price jacket is not necessarily all that far off and 99.9% of humanity could never tell the difference, and of those remaining, it would require closer examination.
Some folks may like to see, discuss and revell in original items (as do I), but in the end, it's not important enough to me to spend more than $500 on ANY A-2, unless I can score a good used one. I'm not sure why this is so tough for some folks to understand. We ALL bought cheap crap when we first started hobbies. Yes, some of us were fortunate enough get expensive jackets, but not all.
For me, this whole thing comes down to this. USAAFace, and others, are excited about getting their A-2's that perhaps they have saved for years to afford. Does it make some people feel better about themselves that they just can't let someone else be happy with what they want or can afford because they don't meet their level of approval or expectation?
ASWATLAND, from my experiences on FL is someone I listen to, and clearly acknowledged as close to an expert as I know! Always a voice of reason and experience. Many other are just popping in (some for the first time) and only catching part of the long-running thread(s) in this issue, and seem to be completely missing the point.
Although, not for a second to I believe that ANYONE has a malicious intent, the end result seems to be that feelings are being hurt and others are made to feel somehow less-the-acceptable because they don't have a GOOD WEAR or EASTMAN jacket. Utterly ridiculous!
It seems that a member's mind has been made up, for whatever reason..... can't we just be happy for the gentleman (or lady) and move on here?
Respectfully, with the generous weighing in of many proven experts, while I fully agree with the intent and the wisdom, most are ASSUMING that all of us will eventually end up with a high-end jacket (if we just wait and save our pennys), the fact may be that some of us will NEVER be able to afford one, nor do we aspire such detail. A mid-price jacket is not necessarily all that far off and 99.9% of humanity could never tell the difference, and of those remaining, it would require closer examination.
Some folks may like to see, discuss and revell in original items (as do I), but in the end, it's not important enough to me to spend more than $500 on ANY A-2, unless I can score a good used one. I'm not sure why this is so tough for some folks to understand. We ALL bought cheap crap when we first started hobbies. Yes, some of us were fortunate enough get expensive jackets, but not all.
For me, this whole thing comes down to this. USAAFace, and others, are excited about getting their A-2's that perhaps they have saved for years to afford. Does it make some people feel better about themselves that they just can't let someone else be happy with what they want or can afford because they don't meet their level of approval or expectation?
ASWATLAND, from my experiences on FL is someone I listen to, and clearly acknowledged as close to an expert as I know! Always a voice of reason and experience. Many other are just popping in (some for the first time) and only catching part of the long-running thread(s) in this issue, and seem to be completely missing the point.
Although, not for a second to I believe that ANYONE has a malicious intent, the end result seems to be that feelings are being hurt and others are made to feel somehow less-the-acceptable because they don't have a GOOD WEAR or EASTMAN jacket. Utterly ridiculous!
It seems that a member's mind has been made up, for whatever reason..... can't we just be happy for the gentleman (or lady) and move on here?
Fletch
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 8,865
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- Iowa - The Land That Stuff Forgot
About 2007 I bought a fairly lame-ass jacket, posted the fact here, and was put in my place for it - and not by anyone interested in schooling me, either. The poster responsible did so to simply defend the standards of the fandom, not necessarily to pass them along. I got educated by others, and on my own.
This is, to some degree anyway, simply a masculine sparring ritual. Jackets are not suits: there's not such an assumed veneer of gentility when discussing them. There is the potential to be happy for another's find, but generally, he has to prove himself worthy first.
This is, to some degree anyway, simply a masculine sparring ritual. Jackets are not suits: there's not such an assumed veneer of gentility when discussing them. There is the potential to be happy for another's find, but generally, he has to prove himself worthy first.
USAAFAcePilot
One of the Regulars
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- 157
- Location
- Los Angeles
anybody got any pictures of their US Authentic Goatskin in medium brown?
USAAFAcePilot
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 157
- Location
- Los Angeles
Thanks guys for all the advice, but, I agree with Fiver64 and I've already made up my mind.
Fletch
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 8,865
- Location
- Iowa - The Land That Stuff Forgot
Check these outUSAAFAcePilot said:
USAAFAcePilot
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 157
- Location
- Los Angeles
mind pointin' out which one are the US Authentic ones? I clicked on the link and it says "We couldn't find anything matching your search" for the key words "authentic a-2"
THANKS
THANKS
Phantomfixer
Practically Family
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- 819
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- Mid East coast USA
USAAFAcePilot
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 157
- Location
- Los Angeles
Thanks!
feltfan
My Mail is Forwarded Here
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- Oakland, CA, USA
I have very much enjoyed this thread.Fiver64 said:
Personally, I don't own an A-2 and I'm not in the market for one.
But if I were, I would not be surprised to get the kind of response we
have seen here. This site is dedicated to the study and enjoyment
of Golden Era artifacts. Many of the participants have spent years
tracking down minute details regarding hats, jackets, suits, shoes,
you name it, from that era. To ask about a particular jacket and
request "details" in one's subject line is a bit like going to a Ferrari
forum and asking for details on a Miata.
It's a legitimate request and good information came out of it. I'm not
questioning USAAFAcePilot's wisdom in asking. But no one should be
surprised that highly knowledgeable people with particular specialized
tastes responded. Sounds like USAAFAcePilot was able to sort the
wheat from the chaff and enjoy the theater. I think it's great that there
are people here who are willing to share their unique expertise and great
that most readers take from that what they need. No need for all the
hand wringing, eh? It's only a masculine sparring ritual if you agree
to participate. Otherwise it's just an online forum.
And I know plenty of people who love their Miatas.
- Messages
- 6,438
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- South of Nashville
Thanks for putting it perspective FeltFan. I too have enjoyed the theater, but have kept my opinions to myself.
USAAFAcePilot
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 157
- Location
- Los Angeles
Thanks Guys. I am definitely glad that I've decided to make the leap from a US Wings Modern/Civilian issue A-2 to a far more WWII accurate (even if it isn't 100%) US Authentic A-2. I'm sure some of you guys remember me questioning the US Wings jackets
herk115
New in Town
- Messages
- 7
- Location
- Central California
Enjoy the Jakcet!
Hi, USAAFAcePilot.
I just wanted to add a little more to the thread to make my position clear. Though yours and most other responses to my post were generally favorable, I want to assure you that if a U.S. Authentic is what makes you happy, then I am happy for you. I was just trying to cram two decades of A-2 collecting into one post, and my goal was to help you avoid the pitfalls I encountered in that time.
I do admit I am guilty of assuming that we all want the top of the line best, most expensive, accurate-down-to-the-stitch jacket available, and have forgotten that some people just aren't concerned with that level of detail, and that in my case for many years I was happy and quite satisfied with that very cheap Cooper the Air Force issued me. Thank you to the members who opened my eyes here.
In regard to the nose art and over-adornment of the jacket, perhaps a short anecdote will explain to all why I raised that as a concern. When I was in college I worked for a radio station near Edwards AFB and I covered the early shuttle flights as a reporter. At the time it was accepted and customary for reporters to wear flight jackets adorned with the mission emblems of the flights they had covered. I purchased a nice blue Nomex jacket like the astronauts wear (they are available retail), placed the patches on it along with a name tag and pilots wings (I was a civilian pilot at the time), all of which were sold to the public in the NASA gift shop. I blended right in and things were fine. One day, however, in the lunch line at the NASA Dryden Flight Research Center, an astronaut lit into me and tore me a new one over wearing that jacket. He never did make himself clear but he seemed displeased that someone who wasn't an astronaut was wearing a flight jacket. He did this in front of the entire cafeteria and needless to say I was quite humiliated (in a chance encounter later with the NASA General Counsel I was assured that the astronaut had been way out of line, and he had, in fact, come perilously close to crossing a legal line with his tirade, and the Counsel was worried about NASA's liability -- but I digress...). My point: with nose art and patches, be careful, and be prepared for the occasional self righteous purist who may take some kind of exception and feel a need to hand you your ego on a platter in front of a room full of people. My post was just intended to make sure you were aware that this kind of thing can happen. It really ruins the fun of the jacket -- for a little while, anyway.
That said, whichever jacket you choose to purchase it, may you enjoy it for years and years!
Cheers,
Herk115
Hi, USAAFAcePilot.
I just wanted to add a little more to the thread to make my position clear. Though yours and most other responses to my post were generally favorable, I want to assure you that if a U.S. Authentic is what makes you happy, then I am happy for you. I was just trying to cram two decades of A-2 collecting into one post, and my goal was to help you avoid the pitfalls I encountered in that time.
I do admit I am guilty of assuming that we all want the top of the line best, most expensive, accurate-down-to-the-stitch jacket available, and have forgotten that some people just aren't concerned with that level of detail, and that in my case for many years I was happy and quite satisfied with that very cheap Cooper the Air Force issued me. Thank you to the members who opened my eyes here.
In regard to the nose art and over-adornment of the jacket, perhaps a short anecdote will explain to all why I raised that as a concern. When I was in college I worked for a radio station near Edwards AFB and I covered the early shuttle flights as a reporter. At the time it was accepted and customary for reporters to wear flight jackets adorned with the mission emblems of the flights they had covered. I purchased a nice blue Nomex jacket like the astronauts wear (they are available retail), placed the patches on it along with a name tag and pilots wings (I was a civilian pilot at the time), all of which were sold to the public in the NASA gift shop. I blended right in and things were fine. One day, however, in the lunch line at the NASA Dryden Flight Research Center, an astronaut lit into me and tore me a new one over wearing that jacket. He never did make himself clear but he seemed displeased that someone who wasn't an astronaut was wearing a flight jacket. He did this in front of the entire cafeteria and needless to say I was quite humiliated (in a chance encounter later with the NASA General Counsel I was assured that the astronaut had been way out of line, and he had, in fact, come perilously close to crossing a legal line with his tirade, and the Counsel was worried about NASA's liability -- but I digress...). My point: with nose art and patches, be careful, and be prepared for the occasional self righteous purist who may take some kind of exception and feel a need to hand you your ego on a platter in front of a room full of people. My post was just intended to make sure you were aware that this kind of thing can happen. It really ruins the fun of the jacket -- for a little while, anyway.
That said, whichever jacket you choose to purchase it, may you enjoy it for years and years!
Cheers,
Herk115
USAAFAcePilot
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 157
- Location
- Los Angeles
No problem Herk115!
I enjoy reading your stories and posts and look forward to talking with you on the FL!
I enjoy reading your stories and posts and look forward to talking with you on the FL!
herk115
New in Town
- Messages
- 7
- Location
- Central California
Unit Patches
This message is for sixties.nut.
What units were you assigned to? I'm a patch collector and you never know, maybe I've got what you're looking for, or know someone who does. Also, are you checking Ebay? Great source for patches.
Cheers,
Herk115
This message is for sixties.nut.
What units were you assigned to? I'm a patch collector and you never know, maybe I've got what you're looking for, or know someone who does. Also, are you checking Ebay? Great source for patches.
Cheers,
Herk115
P5640blouson
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 203
- Location
- SoCal
Interesting to see the spectrum of opinions
Interesting to see the spectrum of opinions. I am a big fan of conflict towards progress, to bring the truth out, but also respect those who'd rather not post pointed remarks. In the end it is not good to take any opinions too personal, as someone reminded me here on this forum in their signature line.
Given that, I like authenticity and see that authentic comes at a price. It involves a lot of research inside and outside of genre of specific jacket in question. This is the very reason why I research a golden era centric forum to learn about the ins and outs of fine jackets when in fact my own interest is not necessarily in golden era civilian garments. It is actually on post 50's style garments which are influenced by their predecessors. Nevertheless, many of the rules of analysing these garments apply.
Regarding going for a genuine article vs. expensive replica vs. generic replica, the choice falls to the person buying, not doubt! What is more important and interesting to me is knowing the difference between what we are paying for. By knowing some of these things we've elevated the spending to something beyond mere materialism. JMO
Interesting to see the spectrum of opinions. I am a big fan of conflict towards progress, to bring the truth out, but also respect those who'd rather not post pointed remarks. In the end it is not good to take any opinions too personal, as someone reminded me here on this forum in their signature line.
Given that, I like authenticity and see that authentic comes at a price. It involves a lot of research inside and outside of genre of specific jacket in question. This is the very reason why I research a golden era centric forum to learn about the ins and outs of fine jackets when in fact my own interest is not necessarily in golden era civilian garments. It is actually on post 50's style garments which are influenced by their predecessors. Nevertheless, many of the rules of analysing these garments apply.
Regarding going for a genuine article vs. expensive replica vs. generic replica, the choice falls to the person buying, not doubt! What is more important and interesting to me is knowing the difference between what we are paying for. By knowing some of these things we've elevated the spending to something beyond mere materialism. JMO
Fiver64
Practically Family
- Messages
- 670
- Location
- Fountain City, WI
agreed
I agree completely with P5640. The presentation of new details and sound advice is never wrong, as long as we don't force it on someone. I love learning from those who know, although I never aspire to owning super high-end jackets myself.......too cheap I guess! I'd rather have the cash.
I very much enjoyed Herk's tales. The only negative encounters I've had from jacket insignia (back in the day when I used to paint the nose art on the backs) was a soccer-mom went off on me for having a Vargas-Girl (clothed, but barely) in a public place, and once an elderly Jewish woman completely freaked from a jacket that had tiny swastika kill-tallies on it. That was even an exact copy of an original. I tried to explain that it meant Nazi kills, but her mind was set. Oh well.........the issue obviously brings out a myriad of feelings! None of my jackets today have anything on them.
I agree completely with P5640. The presentation of new details and sound advice is never wrong, as long as we don't force it on someone. I love learning from those who know, although I never aspire to owning super high-end jackets myself.......too cheap I guess! I'd rather have the cash.
I very much enjoyed Herk's tales. The only negative encounters I've had from jacket insignia (back in the day when I used to paint the nose art on the backs) was a soccer-mom went off on me for having a Vargas-Girl (clothed, but barely) in a public place, and once an elderly Jewish woman completely freaked from a jacket that had tiny swastika kill-tallies on it. That was even an exact copy of an original. I tried to explain that it meant Nazi kills, but her mind was set. Oh well.........the issue obviously brings out a myriad of feelings! None of my jackets today have anything on them.
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As a new member and someone who is currently considering a new US Authentic or a second-hand Aero, I too appreciate all the opinions in this thread. I'm more interested in quality than authenticity- in fact I'm not stuck on an A2- and I know that I'll be wearing whatever I buy for a long time. That's why I'm leaning toward Aero at the moment, even though it means being more patient. With that said, anyone have a sz 38 Aero they want to get rid of?
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