German & Austrian Hutmachers

[mayserwegener]

Dermotta I found in a shop. Brim 2 3/8, open crown a little over 5 inches. Black but looks charcoal with black ribbon.

Any ideas on age? I suspect post-war, 1949? The felt is wonderful, like sculpting material.

It says it is 55cm but I am 56.6 and it fits me... just (without forcing it on) and someone wrote in pencil '7' (see third photo below, bottom right of picture on band) which would be a UK 57 and US 56. Not sure whether to keep or not due to it being just a little too small, but feels so nice...

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Great find + fantastic hat! Dermotta Wien hats are not very common. I have a couple of them but none from 1930s or earlier. The ones I have from the mid 1950s and are beautifully made hats (see link below). I think you could be correct on the dating but my guess would be early to mid 1950s. Sandmann is a famous Vienna Hat Industry name but not sure if there is a connection with this Sandmann store. You might want to search the store name + location to see when it was in operation. It might have been stretched previously. You should be ok stretching it a little bit with hat stretcher. If you stretch too much you can damage the hat or cause distortion. I would just wear it higher on your head. I think it looks better Brim Up (see first photo) and was probably worn this way.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/91-dermotta-wien/

 

[steur]

This one I picked up not too long ago and it was in a bit of a state when I got it (paid only 15 euro for it because of it I think). It still needs some steaming and brushing, but it is presentable as it is. A Hückel fedora, lined (lining cover is gone but traces of it still visible), bound edge, 7cm brim and 10cm high crown at the pinch. Quite thin, very pliable felt. No other labels or stamps in the hat, apart from the size label. The frayed bow suggests an early date, but I really don't know. I'm hoping Steve (Mayserwegener) can give some more information, because the Hückel brand has a varied history.

 

[mayserwegener]

Great find! It's a Hückel Weilheim (Germany) so probably early to mid 1950s maybe a little later. You will see many Hückel Weilheim hats with the Hückel 1799 Hanging Cord on my site and in this thread. I think with a good amount of steam you can get the form back. Would be nice to see after photos if possible.

 

[mayserwegener]

Brüder Böhm 1920s Advertising Sign that belongs Jonathan grandson of Victor Böhm owner of Brüder Böhm.

 

[M Hatman]

This one I picked up not too long ago and it was in a bit of a state when I got it (paid only 15 euro for it because of it I think). It still needs some steaming and brushing, but it is presentable as it is. A Hückel fedora, lined (lining cover is gone but traces of it still visible), bound edge, 7cm brim and 10cm high crown at the pinch. Quite thin, very pliable felt. No other labels or stamps in the hat, apart from the size label. The frayed bow suggests an early date, but I really don't know. I'm hoping Steve (Mayserwegener) can give some more information, because the Hückel brand has a varied history.


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NICE FIND!!!! That will steam up just fine!!!!!
M

 

[steur]

Great find! It's a Hückel Weilheim (Germany) so probably early to mid 1950s maybe a little later. You will see many Hückel Weilheim hats with the Hückel 1799 Hanging Cord on my site and in this thread. I think with a good amount of steam you can get the form back. Would be nice to see after photos if possible.

Steve, thanks. I have been getting mixed signals from that hat and it's always good to know what period it belongs to. I gather it's the hanging cord that's yhe sign it belongs to the Hückel Weilheim production. I'll try to work it some more with steam and brush and post it again when ready.

 

[steur]

NICE FIND!!!! That will steam up just fine!!!!!
M

Hatman, thanks. So far the creases and folding lines resist steaming obstinately, but I'm not giving up.

 

[mayserwegener]

If you have a access to a hat steamer (or more intense steam) that might help. You could also try a spray of distilled water but have to make sure it doesn't ruin the liner and sweatband.

 

[RJR]

Hatman, thanks. So far the creases and folding lines resist steaming obstinately, but I'm not giving up.

I really think that a steamer,perhaps with a few sprays of distilled water should do nicely.

 

[mayserwegener]

Steve, thanks. I have been getting mixed signals from that hat and it's always good to know what period it belongs to. I gather it's the hanging cord that's yhe sign it belongs to the Hückel Weilheim production. I'll try to work it some more with steam and brush and post it again when ready.

Yes if you see the Hanging Cord with Hückel 1799 label that is always Weilheim. Some original 1930s Hückel hats have Hanging Cords but with no label on them. JHS might of come up with the idea because I haven't found any other 1930s hats with them. The original Hückel hats will usually have the JHS paper label. For some reason Weilheim never used paper labels. The later Tonak branded Hückel hats will have a different paper label(s). Shortly after WWII Tonak exported to America as Formerly Hückel or Plant Hückel. I have never been able to find documentation on how they worked this out. I know that Weilheim had to export to America as Fritz Hückel Hutmacher and not just Hückel. I guess Weilheim had the trademark for Europe and Tonak everywhere else but this is just based on observation. I don't believe I have found any trademark information from that time period (late 1940s to 1975 when Hückel Weilheim closed).

 

[moehawk]

This P. & C. Habig Wien was an Etsy find, made it's way to me in California from Germany. It arrived a few days ago, but there wasn't enough sun to capture it's color, a deep midnight blue. The first couple of pics were the day it arrived, in the fading light of late afternoon.

Looks black in that light. Here's the insides.

And the all-important paper tag!

With a crease and better light to show the deep blue color.

And the head shot

The crown is 5" open, the brim 2". The felt is substantial, at 145g total weight, but dense not thick. Finish is very nice. Condition is amazing, the only negative was a slightly dry sweatband that a bit of Lexol took care of. Overall quality is everything I had hoped for, meaning excellent.
The seller thought it was 50's, mayserwegener thought maybe a bit later. I will guess late 60's, wondering if the number 69 at the bottom of the paper tag is the year of production. I have a pretty good idea that if I'm wrong there is someone here that can give me a better number!
I might call this one The Blue 'Burg of Happiness.

Powered by happy thoughts

 

[Frunobulax]

Snazzy.


Sent directly from my mind to yours.

 

[steur]

This P. & C. Habig Wien was an Etsy find, made it's way to me in California from Germany. It arrived a few days ago, but there wasn't enough sun to capture it's color, a deep midnight blue. The first couple of pics were the day it arrived, in the fading light of late afternoon.

Looks black in that light. Here's the insides.

And the all-important paper tag!

With a crease and better light to show the deep blue color.

And the head shot

The crown is 5" open, the brim 2". The felt is substantial, at 145g total weight, but dense not thick. Finish is very nice. Condition is amazing, the only negative was a slightly dry sweatband that a bit of Lexol took care of. Overall quality is everything I had hoped for, meaning excellent.
The seller thought it was 50's, mayserwegener thought maybe a bit later. I will guess late 60's, wondering if the number 69 at the bottom of the paper tag is the year of production. I have a pretty good idea that if I'm wrong there is someone here that can give me a better number!
I might call this one The Blue 'Burg of Happiness.

Powered by happy thoughts

Beautiful hat. I have one in the exact same colour. My hat dates from 1974, but judging by the label yours looks to be a bit older. So I think late 1969 might very well be the date. Usually these habig hats have a date stamped in them somewhere. Whatever it is: great find.

 

[steur]

If you have one, where's your proof? Well, here it is. Thought it would be nice to be able to compare these hats. P&C Habig export qualität, size 57, lined with plastic covering of the crown part, 5cm brim and 10,5 cm crown at the pinch. Dark blue colour. Dated 1974.
I'll post these in the Homburg Nation thread as well.

 

[mayserwegener]

This P. & C. Habig Wien was an Etsy find, made it's way to me in California from Germany. It arrived a few days ago, but there wasn't enough sun to capture it's color, a deep midnight blue. The first couple of pics were the day it arrived, in the fading light of late afternoon.

Looks black in that light. Here's the insides.

And the all-important paper tag!

With a crease and better light to show the deep blue color.

And the head shot

The crown is 5" open, the brim 2". The felt is substantial, at 145g total weight, but dense not thick. Finish is very nice. Condition is amazing, the only negative was a slightly dry sweatband that a bit of Lexol took care of. Overall quality is everything I had hoped for, meaning excellent.
The seller thought it was 50's, mayserwegener thought maybe a bit later. I will guess late 60's, wondering if the number 69 at the bottom of the paper tag is the year of production. I have a pretty good idea that if I'm wrong there is someone here that can give me a better number!
I might call this one The Blue 'Burg of Happiness.

Powered by happy thoughts

Good to see it arrived safely. I think "69" could be the production year. I have some evidence that the production year is on the paper (sweatband stamped plus paper label) but not sure it's always the case (Steur's has a 74 on the paper label and date stamped 74). As you can see P. & C. Habig Wien made very high quality hats into the late 1960s and 1970s (see Steur's Homburg).

 

[mayserwegener]

If you have one, where's your proof? Well, here it is. Thought it would be nice to be able to compare these hats. P&C Habig export qualität, size 57, lined with plastic covering of the crown part, 5cm brim and 10,5 cm crown at the pinch. Dark blue colour. Dated 1974.
I'll post these in the Homburg Nation thread as well.

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Yes you can see this one is a little latter but still very high quality. P. & C. Habig Wien made very high quality hats right up to end (late 1980s). I see the 74 on the paper label now.

 

[steur]

Yes you can see this one is a little latter but still very high quality. P. & C. Habig Wien made very high quality hats right up to end (late 1980s). I see the 74 on the paper label now.

Steve, thanks. I looked through the photos of my hats and found another shot of the label of this one, which indeed states the production date. Three months on the shelf and sold apparently.

 

[mayserwegener]

Stefan, Thank you for posting the complete paper label photo. In the 1970s they started to print the complete production date on the paper label. I first discovered this back in 2009 with this P. & C. Habig Wien Homburg that has a 29 Nov. 1940 date stamped on the sweatband.

The last number in the sequence appears to be the production year ######/###/40. I have come across some that don't seem to make sense so I can't say for sure.

 

[steur]

Steve, thanks. That's very useful information for me. I recently picked up another Habig which doesn't have a date stamp on the sweat, but has the same kind of label (only ends with 49).

 

[mayserwegener]

Do you have photos of the hat? The above hat was restored and up sized by Optimo Chicago so lost some brim width and form.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/5-p-c-habig-hutfabrik/#entry36

This Melone is date stamped 16. OKT. 1930 but nothing matches on the paper label but it's a different format.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/5-p-c-habig-hutfabrik/page-4#entry712

Here is similar paper label from an old Velour (probably 1920s or older).

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/5-p-c-habig-hutfabrik/page-4#entry604

Appears the production year is added in the early to mid 1930s when the label format changes (see the 1940 example above).