Gable vs. Bogart

[Kirk H.]

I know that I can watch Bogart way more easily than I can watch Gable. That is my judging criterion.

Me too. Bogie all the way.

 

[Tomasso]

I have to say that Gable lost some of my appreciation when I learned about his part aboard the Liberty Lily.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Blackthorn]

Care to elaborate?

I was wondering the same thing.

Also in the last few weeks we have seen that he had a secret child with Loretta Young, and that child died recently, putting the situation back into the news.

Not that any of those things affect his acting ability or screen image.

 

[Mario]

Care to elaborate?

I was wondering the same thing.

The Liberty Lily was a B-17 Flying Fortress bomber. In 1943 its young crew was carefully picked by US-Air Force propaganda officer John Derek to reflect the American melting pot (one of them, bombardier James Dougherty, rose to fame as the first husband of a certain Norma Jeane Baker, who, when they first met, told him that she was Clark Gable's illegitimate daughter - talk about coincidence!). A film team was also brought on board to capture the Liberty Lily's dangerous missions over Europe. When shooting of the film started, the crew, like most other crews, came on board completely unexperienced - but that would soon change after a couple of missions.

At a certain point (the Lily's 19th mission, to be precise) propaganda officials decided to bring on board a famous actor, whose entry into the ranks of the Air Force was widely covered in the media: Clark Gable. He arrived in a big limo wearing his uniform (as well as his moustache - contrary to common Army regulations!) and immediately proceeded trying to tell the (by now mission-hardended) crew how to operate the machine gun and how to behave (read: pose) as a member of the US-Air Force. Having survived 18 mission over Europe they were of course less than impressed (which is not to say that they didn't enjoy being seen partying with the famous actor). According to John Derek, Gable, posing as a Hollywood director, reduced bloody war to some kind of staged play, telling the crew to do what they were here for: smile!

While on their 19th mission, with Gable on board, the Lily got struck by another B-17, which resulted in a burning engine. In the ensuing chaos the pilot, Gary Hart, told the crew to abandon the plane. No one did - except ball turret machine gunner, John Seaborn, commonly called 'The Indian', whose chute failed to open (one of the camera operators, who was a buddy of Seaborn's, was convinced that he deliberatly didn't pull the ripcord to avoid being taken prisoner). Another crew member, navigator Sam Friedman, died from a chip of metal that hit him in the head. Gable was reduced to tears and left a useless, shivering picture of misery.

The pilot finally managed to regain control of the plane. The crew was orderd to drop their bombs and return to the base. The mission was postponed. By the time the Lily made a safe touchdown at her home base, Gable had already recovered from the shock and left the 'battlefield' as triumphantly as he had arrived on it, big limo and all. He did five missions in total with different crews.

The crew had to get over it and resumed the battle. Air crews usually had to do 25 missions before they were allowed to return home. Due to the extensive media coverage, the Liberty Lily had by that time become a primary target for the German Luftwaffe and so John Derek intervened and managed to spare them the usually required 25th mission, reducing the number to 24.

But that last mission (with John Derek on board) would turn out to be their worst as it took them right into the heart of Nazi Germany - to Berlin. More than 300 planes didn't return from that operation. One of them was the Montana Yankee, whose commander was the former Liberty Lily copilot. The rest of the crew survived the war and the Lily finally returned to America in April 1945.

The famous actor.

The crew.

​

 

[Tomasso]

Sounds like a hatchet job by a disgruntled John Derek. I'd mark it as dubious. But even if it were 100% accurate I really don't see anything particularly egregious.


His official service record from the U.S. Air Force Museum

Although he was beyond the draft age at the time the U.S. entered World War II, Clark Gable enlisted as a private in the AAF on Aug. 12, 1942, at Los Angeles. He attended the Officers' Candidate School at Miami Beach, Fla., and graduated as a second lieutenant on Oct. 28, 1942. He then attended aerial gunnery school, and in February 1943, on personal orders from Gen. Hap Arnold, he went to England to make a motion picture of aerial gunners in action.

He was assigned to the 351st Bomb Group at Polebrook and although neither ordered nor expected to do so, flew operational missions over Europe in B-17s to obtain the combat film footage he believed was required for producing the movie, titled "Combat America."

Gable returned to the U.S. in October 1943 and was relieved from active duty as a major on June 12, 1944, at his own request, since he was over-age for combat

He arrived in a big limo wearing his uniform (as well as his moustache - contrary to common Army regulations!)

This tidbit jumped out at me.


Gable famously shaved of his moustache upon enlistment. It was in every newspaper in the world.

But as officers were allowed to wear moustaches, he grew it back upon completion of Officers Candidate School

 

[Blackthorn]

Interesting stuff, guys, thanks for the info.

 

[Mario]

All those little bits and pieces...

The only thing I really didn't like about Clark Gable's stint with the Liberty Lily was his - at least initially - patronizing Hollywood attitude towards the crew. Well, at least it seems that he gave up on that attitude soon enough.

 

[Tomasso]

Mario, where did you come by this information? A book by John Derek?



In the end, maybe Gable should have just done the USO/War Bond shtick like Bogart.

 

[Mario]

There is a five-part documentary series produced for Arte France in 2005 by Patrick Jeudy using archive film material and drawing from taped interviews with John Derek (who died in 1998). Some of the material that was filmed on board of the Lily was shot by William Wyler, who was also the camera operator on board of the 'Memphis Belle', another (even more famous) B-17 bomber.

Since Gable was too old for active service it was pretty obvious that he'd be doing some kind of propaganda film. Looking good in front of a camera was the thing he was best at anyway. To me Bogart was the better actor but Gable delivered (along with Monroe) his most impressive performance in the 1961 film, 'The Misfits'.

 

[Blackthorn]

Looking good in front of a camera was the thing he was best at anyway. To me Bogart was the better actor but Gable delivered (along with Monroe) his most impressive performance in the 1961 film, 'The Misfits'.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[rue]

The Misfits?? Oh Mario.... I think that movie was a disaster.... sorry.

Personally I think most men like Bogart more than Gable because he's something the average man can relate to and even though he wasn't movie star handsome he was still able to win a beautiful girl's heart (Lauren Bacall). Yes, Bogart was attractive in his own way, but he was not beautiful. Gable was talented and women swooned when he came onto the screen.

 

[Mario]

I wouldn't call The Misfits a disaster. Granted, what I liked most about the film was to watch Marilyn Monroe attempting to break away from her iconic dumb 'n blonde image. It certainly wasn't an easy going film and I know that it received mixed reviews.

True, Bogart definitely wasn't as handsome as Gable - but that can't be the only key point here. At large I found Bogart more convincing in his films. Don't get me wrong: I have absolutely nothing against Clark Gable. I enjoyed quite a lot of the films he did. It just happens that Bogart ranks a little higher on my list. And that may very well be so due to the points you laid out above.

 

[Tomasso]

There is a five-part documentary series produced for Arte France in 2005 by Patrick Jeudy using archive film material and drawing from taped interviews with John Derek (who died in 1998). .

Was it Derek who recounted this:

Gable was reduced to tears and left a useless, shivering picture of misery.

I've perused the web looking for any mention of this incident and have come up empty. I'm finding only generally positive stories like this.

 

[Mario]

Yes, John Derek recounted the story (as it was told to him by crew members since he wasn't on board himself during this mission). Gable was sitting right next to the dead navigator, ashen-faced and weeping silently. Seems that the camera operator was the only one who actually watched John Seaborn exiting the plane and his fall to death.

 

[Tomasso]

And I'll bet Bogie wouldn't have cheated on Bacall with Lana Turner, as Gable was alleged to have done, which supposedly spurred Lombard to take that fateful plane trip in 1942, in order to get home sooner when she got wind of that little affair.

Boy, you asked which actor you prefer and you get accounts of philandering, halitosis, illegitimate children, wartime cowardice and this little nugget, Sheesh.......

 

[Mario]

Well, that's life, eh? Always more to it than appears to the eye...

BTW: I wasn't trying to show off Gable as a coward. I just didn't like this Hollywood attitude he tried to bring to the battle. But then of course he WAS a famous Hollywood actor so this seems to have been inevitable.

 

[Tomasso]

Well, that's life, eh? Always more to it than appears to the eye...

Yep.......

 

[Edward]

Bogart, no question. Rick Blaine, when he's all cynical at the start of Casablanca (not when he goes soft at the end) is something of a role model for me. This may not be a good thing, but there you go.

 

[150719541]

Bogart ¡¡¡¡¡[huh]:eusa_clap

 

[Mario]

Yep.......

"Lauren Bacall failed to chase me out of Hollywood. Katrina won't force me out of New Orleans."

I loved that line! Thanks for the read.