fur vs wool felt

[OldSkoolFrat]

Loungers,

Hi, stumbled in here by accident late this morning at work and I must say, I got nothing done at work. Finally found an eclectic bunch of people interested in some of the same things I have always been interested in.

Anyway, I will shortly be needing to get a top quality Fedora type of hat and I basically no nothing about who makes the best, etc. One thing I have noticed is that the most expensive, (best?) ones are made of fur. Not wanting to sound like a softy, but I have problems with that, like I would be wearing the Easter Bunny on my head or something.

So, I was wondering if any of the wool felt Fedora's come close in quality to the fur. Can't be Master of my Lodge in a ball-cap, gotta have some flare.

Thanks for any input loungers!

OSF
PS I'd order a Dirty Vodka Martini, but I am off the sauce till the company Holiday Party this Saturday. Gotta squeeze into the ol' Tux.

 

[Rick Blaine]

welcome aboard, pard'



Greetings from Tennessee!
you have found a great group & I dare say you will lose hours here, I think everyone will back me up on this.

The consensus here is that wool, regardless of type, finish or grade, is always going to be inferior to felt made from fur, for reasons that begin at the microscopic level (the way in which the barbed hooks on the shaft of a fiber of wool react to the felting process as opposed to the same of fur... or something along those lines. The pro hatters can correct me) and extend to the aesthetic- e.g. the almost silken finnish achievable on fur felt vs. the inherent coarseness of wool, at least that is what I have gleaned.

But knock around here & you will find the answers to many of your questions, you can use the google "advanced search function" to get better results, IMHO.

also, if you really feel like a heel buying fur based felt, you could go & get a nutria fur felt lid. The little buggers are real pests, as are the Ozzie wild rabbits & hares as I recall... just a thought. There has also been, in recent memory, a discussion or two here on the lounge about non animal based alternatives, but there is really no substitute.
Of course in Atlanta & environs, you could wear a panama (vegatable fiber) almost year round, eh?

BTW, I grew up in Athens in the 70s & 80s, how do you find Atlanta? Did you go to UGA?


Anyway welcome again & I'll get the next virtual mar-Ti-Ni,

Regards,

Rick

 

[Not-Bogart13]

Can't Beat Fur Felt

As I understand it, the fur is not acquired in an inhumane way... but I'm not an expert on that. All I know is, Fur Felt is warmer, breathes better, and is far more durable than wool felt. However, I've seen some fur felt hats in stores lately that are real trash, even compared to my old wool felts! I would say that, if you're going to go felt, and you can afford it, go with fur. Otherwise, think Panamas (if you have the money but still don't want fur).
NB

 

[SinatraStyle]

Welcome to the Lounge.

I also would encourage you to go with fur felt. You will be glad you did, especially if you ever get caught in the rain. Wool tends to hold up quite poorly when wet.

If you are concerned about the source of the fur or how it is obtained you may want to consider an Australian company such as Akubra. There are concerns in Australia over the growing wild hare population and the authorities are having trouble controlling the population. Akubra is helping and using the otherwise discarded fur for hats. (Incidentally, wild hare typically makes better felt than farm-raised rabbits.)

 

[Feraud]

Welcome to the Lounge.
The bottom line is fur felt is of a superior quality versus wool. Fur felt has all the necessary qualities to withstand harsh weather, wear, and handling before needing to be cleaned or blocked. Just when a fur felt hat is looking "beat down", these hats have the capacity that allow it to be refurbished. Wool felt is inferior in these areas. That is why quite a few hats from the 1930's onward are still in use!

If you are concerned about the source of the fur or how it is obtained you may want to consider an Australian company such as Akubra. There are concerns in Australia over the growing wild hare population and the authorities are having trouble controlling the population. Akubra is helping and using the otherwise discarded fur for hats. (Incidentally, wild hare typically makes better felt than farm-raised rabbits.)

Well said. I can also vouch for the quality of an Akubra. They are tough, good looking, quality hats for the money.

The fur harvesting issue is a valid one. If you do not want to contribute to the economics of recent harvest I would suggest purchasing a used hat from a member, vintage store, or at auction.

 

[OldSkoolFrat]

Oh yeah, forgot about the wild hare epidemic in Australia. Like Georgia Kudzu on four legs. Hardly the Easter Bunny. And I was going to get a straw boater hat for summer. Would go well with my seersucker suit, bow tie and white oxfords.

Found Etlanta by heading east by southeast 18 years ago. My hometown is noting but engineers, and not being one, I left.

What sort of edge should I be looking for in a Fedora? Raw, Gosgrain or turned under and stitched. Our meetings are held in coat and tie, but when we do a degree, we wear Tuxedos. Hope we don't do many degrees in summer, my new tuxedo is 5% cashmere...... At my original Lodge in Alabama, I could just wear a straw cowboy hat, but I is in the big city now.

Thanks for the thoughtful input gang.

 

[Feraud]

What sort of edge should I be looking for in a Fedora? Raw, Gosgrain or turned under and stitched.

Edge, color, and ribbon style are all personal choices. Some like bound edges and others like the Cavanagh style. I have learned the color brown comes in so many shades!
Here are examples to add to your confusion.

 

[OldSkoolFrat]

Pictured with a shaker and Gin! Took a quick peek at Akubra and the "Bogart" in grey should do the trick very nicely.

"I'm thinkin' about my next drink,
a Gin and tonic sounds mighty mighty good to me"
BB Voodoo Daddy.

Just discovered that my penny loafers are almost vintage, Bass has stopped making the brown and burgundy in narrow widths.

 

[Doc Glockster]

Fur vs. Quality Wool--that big a difference?

For various reasons I prefer a Stetson over an Akubra. Stetsons tend to be stiffer and more "cowboy" versus "outback."

People tell me a fur hat will far outlast a wool hat, yet my beater Stetson Hutchins 3XXX wool hat has survived the elements, several reshapings, and downright abuse in the time I've had it. Only the original hat band gave up the ghost because it was lightly glued on instead of being sewn.

I won't argue that Akubras are tough. I'm just curious how much of an improvement a $160 Akubra fur hat is versus my $85 Stetson wool hat.

Thoughts?

 

[Dinerman]

In my experience the difference between fur and wool is remarkable. There's a reason so many more vintage fur felt hats have survived than vintage wools.

 

[Trenchfriend]

I thing, robust fur ages in a positive way and wool-felt most ages the negative way, like a carpet in your living room.

 

[mayserwegener]

Wool (also blended with different types of fur) was frequently used in old European dress hats (soft and stiff). I have a number of old German and Austrian wool / wool fur blend hats (soft and stiff) that have survived the test of time. For example this early 1900s Negretti (a type of wool) Melone which is of very high quality.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/58-negretti/#entry321

 

[gtdean48]

Fur fibers continue to felt until reaching the "dead felt" state, reaching ultimate strength. The microscopic barbs of the fibers cause this.
Wool fibers don't possess this trait. Fur fibers felt better than wool due to this characteristic which is the foundation of "felting"....

 

[mayserwegener]

That is true (microscopic barbs) for beaver fur but not rabbit and hare. Also wool has strong felting characteristics but processed differently. American hat companies didn't use wool but it was common in Europe. I am not saying wool is better than fur but it is possible to make a high quality hat from it (see the one I posted above). I think it worked better for stiff felts although lint collection is a problem. Also in Europe wool and fur types were commonly blended.

 

[Frunobulax]

Fur fibers continue to felt until reaching the "dead felt" state, reaching ultimate strength. The microscopic barbs of the fibers cause this.
Wool fibers don't possess this trait. Fur fibers felt better than wool due to this characteristic which is the foundation of "felting"....

So how long does this take? Just until dry/cured? Or are my newer hats still felting?

I know you can restart the process with heat and moisture. Or do I?

 

[mayserwegener]

Beaver fur (with microscopic barbs) will felt without any type of pickling (for example nitrate of mercury was not needed). This is not the case with rabbit or hare fur. This is why nitrate of mercury plus other additives (secret) was existential for felting rabbit and hare (nitrate of mercury used from the 1700s up to early 1940s when it was banned and replaced with a less toxic process).

Also finish is not always dependent on felting ability. For example the finest Velours were produced from specific hare varieties (supposedly Saxon hare produced the finest).

 

[gtdean48]

So how long does this take? Just until dry/cured? Or are my newer hats still felting?

I know you can restart the process with heat and moisture. Or do I?

Your newer hats are still felting. Wear, especially in the rain, does keep the felting going at a faster pace that a hat sitting in a box or on the shelf.

Fur felt hats are chiefly made of rabbit fur. Some hare fur is used to make better hats, and is often mixed with rabbit fur to produce hats in various medium price grades. Beaver, the finest fur, and nutria are usually used in the best hats, and muskrat also supplies raw material for hatmaking,

By "fur" is meant the downy under-fur of these animals, not the long, coarse hair that is commonly called fur. Only this under-fur has on the surface of each fiber the barb-like projections which will lock the fibers together to make a strong felt.
Found = http://www.hatlife.com/hats_made.php

 

[mayserwegener]

I forgot that I shouldn't post in these threads.

 

[Doc Glockster]

Fur fibers continue to felt until reaching the "dead felt" state, reaching ultimate strength. The microscopic barbs of the fibers cause this.
Wool fibers don't possess this trait. Fur fibers felt better than wool due to this characteristic which is the foundation of "felting"....

So if I'm reading this correctly a properly made fur hat will continue over time to get denser and potentially firmer?

 

[Doc Glockster]

By "fur" is meant the downy under-fur of these animals, not the long, coarse hair that is commonly called fur. Only this under-fur has on the surface of each fiber the barb-like projections which will lock the fibers together to make a strong felt.
Found = http://www.hatlife.com/hats_made.php

What about for buffalo?