Fun challenge. Please help me date this vintage German suit.

[reetpleat]

I came across this unusual suit. A few labels. the fabric is very thick and nice, kind of a ribbed all black wool thing.

If this were American, I would surely date it to teens or twenties from the fabric and tailoring, but I know Europe is different.

So, east or west german? Pre pr post war.

I am guessing post war because what are the odds of finding older. Also, the closeness of the cross over of the double breast makes me think not that old. Other than that, it seems very old.

has bone buttons, and seems to have underwear tabs inside pants.

the pants are only slightly tapered, about an inch and a half from knees to bottom difference.

So, any help would be appreciated.

 

[filfoster]

Ach du Leiber!

The lapels and pleats should help the smarter members id this. What a great suit and great condition. Think of all the worthless Weimar reichsmarks those pockets must have carried.
I'd guess '30's.

 

[Mr Mueller]

I zeroed in on the buttonfly. Buttonfly could be a style choice, but could also help date it. Zippers didn't start being introduced in men's trousers until the early to mid 20s in England and the US and didn't really gain momentum in usage until the mid 30s.

This could very well be 20s. Likely not younger than mid-30s.

Nice find. Did you google the manufacturer? I can't quite make out the label in your pic, or I would have.

 

[reetpleat]

The lapels and pleats should help the smarter members id this. What a great suit and great condition. Think of all the worthless Weimar reichsmarks those pockets must have carried.
I'd guess '30's.

Yes, the pockets seem kind of stretched out as if holding large bundles of money to buy a loaf of bread.

 

[benstephens]

Hi,

I would take a stab at 1950s. It is the C&A Label which is interesting in itself. C&A was a textile company set up in the 1840s. They had stores all over Europe at one time but they seem to have disappeared now.

It is hard to tell from the photos though as to what the lining is and what the sleeves are lined in. Button fly is really not going to tell you much as button fly suits were still used well into the 1960s, even on off the peg suits.

The cut and style is certainly making it look pre war, the European fashions of around 1938 seemd to start favouring one button closure on a Dbl breasted suit.

My thoughts though are the Reine Wolle label. This means real wool. I have only ever seen this on 1950s European suits, as nearly all pre war suits would have been real wool.

The inside of the trousers certainly look certainly 1940s to me if not latter.

Just my thoughts,

Kindest Regards

Ben

 

[benstephens]

I would like to also say, it looks as though the buttons have been moved over on it. That may be why the jackets is not fastening as far across as it should.

Kindest Regards

Ben

 

[Methuselah]

Good evening.

I agree, the suit looks like a 50s one from the label.
When C&A had shops in the UK they were always quite traditional, catering for older age ranges, maybe why the suit looks older than it is?

I think they are still going in other European countries.

This page has some historic logo designs for you to compare:

http://www.c-and-a.com/aboutUs/company/history/

Your photo is fuzzy, but looks most like the 50s one.

EDIT: here's a bigger version:

http://www.plagiat.ch/wp-content/uploads/logos/_Logo_Entwicklung.gif

 

[donCarlos]

Just for the record, C&A is still in bussiness and sometimes has quite nice suits for less than little money, but as far as what I´ve seen, they are the typical "bags from polyesther", as one would expect from a suit for ca. 250 USD...

 

[Marc Chevalier]

It's from the 1950s.


Up until the '60s, Germany (and some other European countries) produced suits with the same types of fabrics, buttons and tailoring details that were used in the early 1900s. Only the cut of the suits evolved -- and then just slightly.

.

 

[reetpleat]

that is what I figured. I have seen many German suits, even from the eighties that are very thick and heavy, and have much of this old style tailoring. Plus, the labels did not look quite prewar.

Plus, what are the odds of a suit surviving a world war, scarcity, and post war in this condition. Although it could happen. Plus, how would it gt here. More likely, it was worn here by an immigrant who packed it away and right about now is going into a home or died, which would place him likely as having come here in the fifties.

At the same store, I found a nice 50s suit, and a german tunic. It looks a lot like a WWIi tunic, but the tag and otherdetails suggest post war. However, it is a bit smaller than the suit, so it might just be coincidence. But it could be the same family. I also found a suit from the sixties from Rochester big and tall that is, no kidding, about a size 60. the pants are big enough for two people to stand in them. I hope this is not the same guy who wore the first suit, then went crazy in post war america.

It might explain the moving of the buttons though.

Thanks for all the help guys. I am glad to see that the style and cut is not too un earlier, because that would, to me, make it just a heavy suit in a bad style. But if the style is somewhat older, that is good.

Sure is some finetailoring and beautiful fabric.

 

[Geesie]

I zeroed in on the buttonfly. Buttonfly could be a style choice, but could also help date it. Zippers didn't start being introduced in men's trousers until the early to mid 20s in England and the US and didn't really gain momentum in usage until the mid 30s.

This could very well be 20s. Likely not younger than mid-30s.

Nice find. Did you google the manufacturer? I can't quite make out the label in your pic, or I would have.

That only works the other way around. Presence of a zipper gives a "no older than" date, but absence of a zipper doesn't guarantee anything.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Plus, what are the odds of a suit surviving a world war, scarcity, and post war in this condition. Although it could happen.

You'd be surprised. As recently as 5 years ago, a LOT of pre-WWII German menswear was being exported from Germany to developing countries. In Chile, I found tons of 1930s German overcoats (leather and heavy wool), horsehide motorcycle coats, tuxedos, and some suits in used clothing stores. Every winter, bales of clothes would arrive in Chile from Germany.


Oddly enough, the shipments also included many 1920s and '30s frock coats (specifically, the kind worn by Orthodox Jews). Sometimes I ask myself, "Could much of this pre-WWII clothing have come from victims of the Holocaust?" After all, there would have been millions upon millions of items, if you know what I mean.


.

 

[mike]

That's a horrible thought.

 

[reetpleat]

You'd be surprised. As recently as 5 years ago, a LOT of pre-WWII German menswear was being exported from Germany to developing countries. In Chile, I found tons of 1930s German overcoats (leather and heavy wool), horsehide motorcycle coats, tuxedos, and some suits in used clothing stores. Every winter, bales of clothes would arrive in Chile from Germany.


Oddly enough, the shipments also included many 1920s and '30s frock coats (specifically, the kind worn by Orthodox Jews). Sometimes I ask myself, "Could much of this pre-WWII clothing have come from victims of the Holocaust?" After all, there would have been millions upon millions of items, if you know what I mean.


.

Yes, sitting in warehouses. IT makes sense. Individual clothes get worn and pssedd on, but what might produce big bunches of used clothing all in one place?

I know that a lot of the stock of La Rosa in San Francisco came fromm big lots of German clothes. Not to suggest anything of the less pleasant topic. i just mean that is wher the German owner got his stuff, from german warehouse lots.

 

[filfoster]

Ship of Tools

You'd be surprised. As recently as 5 years ago, a LOT of pre-WWII German menswear was being exported from Germany to developing countries. In Chile, I found tons of 1930s German overcoats (leather and heavy wool), horsehide motorcycle coats, tuxedos, and some suits in used clothing stores. Every winter, bales of clothes would arrive in Chile from Germany.


Oddly enough, the shipments also included many 1920s and '30s frock coats (specifically, the kind worn by Orthodox Jews). Sometimes I ask myself, "Could much of this pre-WWII clothing have come from victims of the Holocaust?" After all, there would have been millions upon millions of items, if you know what I mean.


.

Wonder if the bills of lading cleared through the Dresdner Bank?

 

[Mr Mueller]

That only works the other way around. Presence of a zipper gives a "no older than" date, but absence of a zipper doesn't guarantee anything.

I realize that. I did say the buttonfly could be a style choice. I was just throwing that out there just like I was throwing out the label suggestion.

Fascinating information in this thread though. Especially Marc's bit about the German retro-style tailoring. Where do you learn so much about 20th century suits? My fashion history knowledge seriously degrades around the turn of the century because I haven't found any good, concise resources on the matter. I've had several courses in costume history, but they all tapered off by the 19 teens because you hit the end of the semester and ran out of time.

 

[reetpleat]

I wonder if this suit would be suitable for some kind of reenactment. I know some reenactors like ot do German uniforms. Does anyone do german civilian. Hat to say it, but the color and fabric make me think of gestapo.

 

[Tomasso]

What is the function of that doodad (looks like a snap of some sort) located between the suspender buttons?

 

[reetpleat]

I was guessing it was some kind of internal underwear thing. Recently I was looking at the fl thread on Edward III wardrobe, and there were some pics of his fasten in underwear. I was thinking that was this.

 

[Orgetorix]

Could be. Old-style long underwear, the kind without elastic at the waist, had straps or tapes that one could could loop around one's braces to keep the long johns up. That little buckle thing could have something to do with it.