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Gotta love the evolution of this thread.
I don’t think we can properly evaluate the comparative virtues of full v. top grain based on a few, isolated pieces of leather selected and offered by certain posters to prove their point (e.g., hides that are extreme examples). Among high quality horse hides, there is considerable variation in the grain/texture from piece to piece, and one piece of the same horse hide may appear more textured/grainy than a different piece of the same hide. I have seen this countless times. Therefore, any of us can find a less textured/grainy hide from one manufacturer and compare it to a more textured/grainy hide from a different manufacturer. To make matters even more complicated, Shinki/Horween/Italian tanneries produce many different types of horse hides, and the finish of the individual hides vary accordingly (for example, Shinki is one of only two producers of shell cordovan). To further complicate the analysis, as JC observed, individual purchasers of leather specify particular finishes and, therefore, the individual hides produced by Shinki/Horween/Italian tanneries vary according to the individual specifications of the individual purchasers. Based on the foregoing, there is little to be discerned by comparing a random hide from one tannery to specifically selected hide from another; there are far too many variables to draw any meaningful conclusions.
I personally do not care for the yellowish Shinki hide posted by BK. That said, I have never seen a jacket made out of that hide (and I would not purchase such a jacket). On the other hand, I have seen many Shinki hides that utterly captivate me. Here are three examples (the first is from Himel, the second is from Freewheelers, and the third is my RMC):
These hides are a far better representative of Shinki's product and a better comparison to the Victory hide previously posted by BK (which, IMHO, is a gorgeous hide) (yes, I fully recognize that I am engaging in the same selective comparison that I previously criticized). I hope to be able to post photos of a Himel Canuck -- that is being sewn today -- in a week or so.
The following are a couple of photos of BK's horsehide jackets from its website:
Beautiful hides for sure!!! Are they better looking hides than the Shinki hides? That is obviously a subjective determination that will vary from person to person.
In my original post, I asked whether it matters to us, as consumers, if our jacket is made from full or top grain. Based on the contents of this thread, I personally have reached the conclusion that it does not matter one iota. At most, the distinction between full and top grain impacts the subjective appearance/aesthetic of the jacket – it has no impact on longevity, the previously described “use value,” or any other objective considerations. Therefore, if I like the appearance/aesthetic of the jacket, I do not see any reason to care whether it is full or top grain. There are gorgeous full grain jackets and there are gorgeous top grain jackets – there are also unattractive full and top grain jackets. Given that the objective considerations are a wash, buy what you like, regardless of whether it is full or top grain.
I don’t think we can properly evaluate the comparative virtues of full v. top grain based on a few, isolated pieces of leather selected and offered by certain posters to prove their point (e.g., hides that are extreme examples). Among high quality horse hides, there is considerable variation in the grain/texture from piece to piece, and one piece of the same horse hide may appear more textured/grainy than a different piece of the same hide. I have seen this countless times. Therefore, any of us can find a less textured/grainy hide from one manufacturer and compare it to a more textured/grainy hide from a different manufacturer. To make matters even more complicated, Shinki/Horween/Italian tanneries produce many different types of horse hides, and the finish of the individual hides vary accordingly (for example, Shinki is one of only two producers of shell cordovan). To further complicate the analysis, as JC observed, individual purchasers of leather specify particular finishes and, therefore, the individual hides produced by Shinki/Horween/Italian tanneries vary according to the individual specifications of the individual purchasers. Based on the foregoing, there is little to be discerned by comparing a random hide from one tannery to specifically selected hide from another; there are far too many variables to draw any meaningful conclusions.
I personally do not care for the yellowish Shinki hide posted by BK. That said, I have never seen a jacket made out of that hide (and I would not purchase such a jacket). On the other hand, I have seen many Shinki hides that utterly captivate me. Here are three examples (the first is from Himel, the second is from Freewheelers, and the third is my RMC):
These hides are a far better representative of Shinki's product and a better comparison to the Victory hide previously posted by BK (which, IMHO, is a gorgeous hide) (yes, I fully recognize that I am engaging in the same selective comparison that I previously criticized). I hope to be able to post photos of a Himel Canuck -- that is being sewn today -- in a week or so.
The following are a couple of photos of BK's horsehide jackets from its website:
Beautiful hides for sure!!! Are they better looking hides than the Shinki hides? That is obviously a subjective determination that will vary from person to person.
In my original post, I asked whether it matters to us, as consumers, if our jacket is made from full or top grain. Based on the contents of this thread, I personally have reached the conclusion that it does not matter one iota. At most, the distinction between full and top grain impacts the subjective appearance/aesthetic of the jacket – it has no impact on longevity, the previously described “use value,” or any other objective considerations. Therefore, if I like the appearance/aesthetic of the jacket, I do not see any reason to care whether it is full or top grain. There are gorgeous full grain jackets and there are gorgeous top grain jackets – there are also unattractive full and top grain jackets. Given that the objective considerations are a wash, buy what you like, regardless of whether it is full or top grain.
