From The Mail: SS Uniforms Cause Stir at Dambusters Event.

[scotrace]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-Two-themed-celebration-Dambusters-raid.html

German tourists complained last year, and such insignia were banned.

SS re-eneactors? It will probably take a few more generations of time and space.

 

[Dixon Cannon]

Amazing! Check out these two characters at a recent CAF event! ≈

-dixon cannon

 

[Peacoat]

Dressing as a German soldier is one thing, but dressing as a member of the Nazi party or SS is completely different. Not sure what our Hitler look alike is trying to be. Maybe he doesn't either. Can't see his right collar to see what insignia is there. Often the SS mark was worn in that location.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Dressing as a German soldier is one thing, but dressing as a member of the Nazi party or SS is completely different. Not sure what our Hitler look alike is trying to be. Maybe he doesn't either. Can't see his right collar to see what insignia is there. Often the SS mark was worn in that location.

He's supposed to be Heinrich Himmler. The collar insignia on both sides is that of Reichsführer SS of which was worn only by Himmler.

 

[B-24J]

Where are the RAF Lads?

As they were remembering the Dams Raid it would have been nice if the article pictured at least one photo of people dressed as RAF.

Here is a site with pics from previous years:

http://www.haworth-village.org.uk/events/haworth-events/more.asp?event=Haworth 1940s Weekend

On another site it was mentioned that the town was showing the "Dambusters" movie. Hopefully for the 75th anniversary the new movie will be in theaters.

John

 

[1961MJS]

Hi

I'm sorry, but Heinrich Himmler carrying a pop can is funny. I don't know, but If I looked like that with a mustache, I MIGHT feel constrained to do the Heinrich thing for Halloween.

I was at a gun show about ten years ago with a friend who father was also a WW2 vet. There was a Luftwaffe pilot signing copies of his book and was about 90 years old. My friend was debating whether or not we should grab the Me-109 pilot and beat his rear up. My friend is NORMALLY pretty sedate, but seeing an actual Nazi era pilot set him off pretty good.

Just another $0.02 and possibly worth every penny.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

SS Uniforms are a NO GO and those people should be banned from every Reenactment event. Even if they come back in their second outfit.

Dressing as a German soldier is one thing, but dressing as a member of the Nazi party or SS is completely different.

Yes, exactly. As a young man in germany you would get drafted to the wehrmacht sooner or later. But the SS was a criminal organisation. Many gruesome things happend in the Wehrmacht too but it is still not the same to begin with.

I often ask myself which level of identification is achieved during a reenactment. I am not sure it is just a role like an actor for a movie...

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Some footage from Haworth's 1940s Weekend in 2011.

[video=youtube;tPfZBRBJQ5Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPfZBRBJQ5Q[/video]

 

[Rudie]

I wonder what these people think. If they think at all.

 

[Edward]

Hard to rely on the Mail's version of the story (a squalid little rag to this day - ironically in this context, the paper likes to forget its own past as an enthusiastic supporter of Moseley's British Union of Fascists) to be entirely accurate. If you want to gauge the calibre of that paper, look to what has been dubbed "the right hand column of shame", the links dow the right hand side. It is naught but The Sun (notorious UK tabloid newspaper) for middle-class social climbers who rhink they are better than The Sun. Nonetheless... I think it is fair to distinguish between "re-enactment" of SS and regular Wehrmacht, but let's not rush to label these people as Nazi sympathisers either. The reality is that they probably thought that it was just a cool thing to dress up as, the pantomime bad guy. No less concerning than if they thought the SS were "cool", but a different problem. One of education.

 

[p51]

I'm not a German re-enactor and will never be one, but I have to ask the question, then: If you're trying to portray a specific time period, isn't it a bit silly to edit out the parts we don't like?
I mean, come on, the Germans lost, SS and all.
When you see American Civil War re-enactments, slavery is ackowledged, and there are even people (and yes, with the correct skin color) willing to portray said slaves, to show that part of the history that actually happened.
Are we at the point where, if we don't like something, we just edit it out? Distasteful as it is, the SS were a part of WW2. Otherwise, how can you have a 'WW2 event' if you only allow the uniforms that everyone loves?
I know for sure there are Germans who still have a bit of resentment to Brits and Americans for boming some of their cities flat. Do you tell people with allied impressions not to show up just in case you might encounter someone like that?
There was a guy dressed like Hitler (and a Himmler, Goering and Rommel, too) at Indiantown Gap's re-enactment in the 90s. We just shook our heads and walked away. I was later reminded of that when I saw that episode of South Park where Cartman dressed like Hitler for halloween: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkeye_(South_Park)

 

[Two Types]

I don't want to stray into politics but I have real concerns about re-enactors. At an event in the UK I saw a black man dressed in a full Luftwaffe general's uniform. Most bizarre.

I also found myself standing in a bar beside a group of Germans all dressed in SS uniforms. They were posing with a life size cardboard cut out of President Obama and starting holding guns to his head. The atmosphere in the bar changed and the crowd moved back from them. There was violence in the air. I got talking to a bloke who was just out of the British Army after ten years, and he was ready to wade in and start a fight (I liked his attitude: he described himself as a pacifist - he'd only killed people when he had to). I had my daughter and her friend with me (we'd been at the event raising money for the Red Cross) and I didn't like the tension.

It calmed down when some of the Germans realised they had upset people and they soon left.

That's why I think the whole question of re-enacting is curious.

Mind you, my daughter made the best comment. She simply said "Let's go and fetch all the Red Army re-enactors. They'll be pissed on cheap vodka and will be up for a fight."

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Did you ever read about the "International WWII Living History Agreement 2007". All the questions are answered there.

I am also skeptical about Reenactment alltogether just like Two Types. But I am aware it has many fans in the vintage scene and most of them have honest, educational intentions.
However one has to draw a line somewhere. You won't "display" rape, mass graves, concentration camps or smashing babys against walls. Nobody would get amputations or crap their pants in terror. (=all part of WW2) It is IMPOSSIBLE to display the whole thing. Once you realize that you have the choice between doing a calm homefront display or just carry on with playing "cowboys and indians" in battle reenactments. If you want to educate people write a book. If you want the physical experience you are kidding yourself. Marching with a heavy backpack is camping not war.

 

[1961MJS]

...Yes, exactly. As a young man in germany you would get drafted to the wehrmacht sooner or later. But the SS was a criminal organisation. Many gruesome things happend in the Wehrmacht too but it is still not the same to begin with.

I often ask myself which level of identification is achieved during a reenactment. I am not sure it is just a role like an actor for a movie...

Hi

I'm a history buff and the local Civil war group was the 9th Texas. I used to run with them after attending Lincolnwood High School, touring Lincoln's home, tomb, and New Salem. You DO identify with the group, but not the SS group (Let's all go out and gas a few) or Confederate (we need more slaves), but with the GROUP around you.

If reenacting SS, I think you need to take on the persona in such a way as to portray what happened. There are several interesting books on what the locals thought about the death camps. (it provides jobs for out local boys). You could also get drafted into the SS. A friend's grandfather had that happen. The man was in Germany to get his brother and his family. The guy's grandfather served in the US Army in WW1.

Later

 

[p51]

I'm not pro-SS re-enactor or anything (frankly, I don't 'get' it, and never have), but simply can't portray an entire time period and then say, "Oh, half of you can't show up, we don't like the other part." How silly would a Napoleonic re-enactment be if, say, the French weren't allow to attend because France did something back then to annoy the rest of Europe... oh wait, they did, didn't they?
I'm reminded of an event where a group was invited to put on a public battle. The problem was, they didn't want Axis forces. I asked how we'd accomplish that without looking like the US and Brits had turned on each other (or perhaps re-enacting the US Revolution taking place in 1944). The people trying to put it on just sat there with shocked expressions. They honestly hadn't thought that part out!

Did you ever read about the "International WWII Living History Agreement 2007". All the questions are answered there.

I've been re-enacting WW2 since 1989 and I'd never heard of that until just now. I scanned through it, it's just a proposal someone came up with. It's not a list of bylaws, and certainly not anything re-enactors must abide by.

Nobody would get amputations-

They're depicted in Civil War and Napoleonic re-enacting all the time. I can't count the number of times I've seen it done (with fake limbs of course, but they're not using live ammo, either, are they?).

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

I don't want to stray into politics but I have real concerns about re-enactors. At an event in the UK I saw a black man dressed in a full Luftwaffe general's uniform. Most bizarre.

That guy must really get around because, I swear, I must have seen him (or his cousin!) at an event here in the US, only he was wearing an SS uniform! :doh:

 

[scotrace]

I've always thought it was odd that SS totenkopf rings are collectible, and reproduced in the kind of exacting detail one sees here with A2 jackets.

 

[R.G. White]

I personally think this is somewhat trivial; we have more important matters to worry about than whether or not people should be allowed to wear SS uniforms at WWII reenactment events. There are much more important things happening in the world...
Reenactment events all together, despite how much I'd like being apart of one, are in bad taste. Let's reenact death, and then go home and watch TV and fill our stomachs with as much food as we please, then go to sleep in our warm, comfy beds. We know we're going to be safe, we don't have to worry about what's going to happen to our families if we don't come back; stew in constant, miserable curiosity as to whether or not you're going to win or lose.

 

[alsendk]

Isn`t re-enacting mostly for men, that never did a real military drafted service themselves ?

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

I've always thought it was odd that SS totenkopf rings are collectible, and reproduced in the kind of exacting detail one sees here with A2 jackets.

Yeah, same here. Maybe it's something about that nazi memorabilia that fascinates us, or the evil with which it is associated? And that fascination could become dangerous to someone that is ignorant of what those things represented, and still represent today. It wasn't all just some movie with actors, it was very real.
I had an SS officer's tie stick pin in the form of a skull and crossbones, finely crafted and very detailed in my collection of assorted world war 2 artifacts. I bought it for a few dollars at an antiques show at the local mall back in the 80's. Before I moved across country recently, I put a lot of stuff on ebay to raise needed cash. I thought to sell the stick pin, as it may have been a rare collectable but something told me no. I ended up actually smashing it with a hammer and destroying it.
I thought of the person who once owned and wore it, what his values were, what he might have done day to day. My conscience got the better as I would have felt guilty if I had profited from the sale of the thing and what it represented. I have heard that objects retain an energy from the people that once owned, used or wore them. Maybe there is something to that?