French Hats and makers.

[steur]

Gorgeous!

Thanks, Doug!

 

[Redfokker]

We don't see this brand around very often (if at all), which is strange considering its standing. Guiseppe Borsalino was an apprentice there and it kind of shows I think. Many thanks to Daniele, who pointed this one out to me, and with a little e-mailing back and forth to France it came about.
Berteil castor. Size 56, with the raw edge brim at 6,5cm and the crown 10cm at the pinch.

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So, how does it compare? Well, very favorably I can say. If you wouldn't know better you would be forgiven to think that this was a Borsalino, judging just by the look of it. Shape, proportions, flange are all very close to the house from Alessandria. Even the colour is almost the same as the Borsalino Caffe colour. A tad lighter and a bit more reddish.
Where Borsalino improved upon his old teacher was the finishing though. The sweatband is not of the highest standard (a more common problem with French hats) and the liner is not fitted as tight as one in a Borsalino. But I'm really nitpicking here.
This is a beaver hat (those two beavers on the sweatband are there to advertise that) and the felt came to life almost instantly when I lightly steamed it. Shapes like a dream and has a lovely hand and feels like it will last forever. Nice thin felt and the hat is fairly lightweight at 105 grams.
There are no labels inside the hat unfortunately, but the sweatband and especially the liner make me think this is probably forties, maybe even late thirties.
I would buy these all day long, thank you.

Seeing the details of this hat was enlightening. The level of this one in the market place would be interesting to know. It is one wonderful piece of hat history. Very cool Stefan.

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

We don't see this brand around very often (if at all), which is strange considering its standing. Guiseppe Borsalino was an apprentice there and it kind of shows I think. Many thanks to Daniele, who pointed this one out to me, and with a little e-mailing back and forth to France it came about.
Berteil castor. Size 56, with the raw edge brim at 6,5cm and the crown 10cm at the pinch.

View attachment 135672 View attachment 135673 View attachment 135674 View attachment 135677 View attachment 135678 View attachment 135679 View attachment 135680 View attachment 135681 View attachment 135682 View attachment 135683

So, how does it compare? Well, very favorably I can say. If you wouldn't know better you would be forgiven to think that this was a Borsalino, judging just by the look of it. Shape, proportions, flange are all very close to the house from Alessandria. Even the colour is almost the same as the Borsalino Caffe colour. A tad lighter and a bit more reddish.
Where Borsalino improved upon his old teacher was the finishing though. The sweatband is not of the highest standard (a more common problem with French hats) and the liner is not fitted as tight as one in a Borsalino. But I'm really nitpicking here.
This is a beaver hat (those two beavers on the sweatband are there to advertise that) and the felt came to life almost instantly when I lightly steamed it. Shapes like a dream and has a lovely hand and feels like it will last forever. Nice thin felt and the hat is fairly lightweight at 105 grams.
There are no labels inside the hat unfortunately, but the sweatband and especially the liner make me think this is probably forties, maybe even late thirties.
I would buy these all day long, thank you.

Stefan:
Excellent write-up on a most stellar hat!
I’ve been waiting a long time to see another one and your’s is extraordinary and exemplary. I do not wish to diminish the glory of your new find so i will just show a quick pic of this one’s blue brother.
I have some homework to do and will bask in your Berteil until i can give a proper post.
I know Berteil is still a major clothing etc conglomerate much like Benetton but i believe they stopped hat making in the 40s. Idk
Thank you for the treat!!
Be well. Bowen

 

[Tukwila]

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Stefan:
Excellent write-up on a most stellar hat!
I’ve been waiting a long time to see another one and your’s is extraordinary and exemplary. I do not wish to diminish the glory of your new find so i will just show a quick pic of this one’s blue brother.
I have some homework to do and will bask in your Berteil until i can give a proper post.
I know Berteil is still a major clothing etc conglomerate much like Benetton but i believe they stopped hat making in the 40s. Idk
Thank you for the treat!!
Be well. Bowen

Wow, that is some kind of special!

 

[steur]

Seeing the details of this hat was enlightening. The level of this one in the market place would be interesting to know. It is one wonderful piece of hat history. Very cool Stefan.

View attachment 135768 View attachment 135769
Stefan:
Excellent write-up on a most stellar hat!
I’ve been waiting a long time to see another one and your’s is extraordinary and exemplary. I do not wish to diminish the glory of your new find so i will just show a quick pic of this one’s blue brother.
I have some homework to do and will bask in your Berteil until i can give a proper post.
I know Berteil is still a major clothing etc conglomerate much like Benetton but i believe they stopped hat making in the 40s. Idk
Thank you for the treat!!
Be well. Bowen

Wow, that is some kind of special!

Gentlemen, thanks. It's been my pleasure entirely. It's not everyday I get the chance to handle a hat with this kind of provenance. I can't wait to see yours in more detail, Bowen. I have noticed that the addresses on the liners are different (and by the looks of it they took care of the sweatbands too).
Mine lists Boulevard St Germain 134 and 18, Rue de le Anc. Comédie as their addresses. Yours has their current address of 3, Place Saint Augustin on the liner. This leads me to believe my hat may be older than I first thought. I have found an old advertisement where both addresses are mentioned:

The auction where this is listed just has it dated "forties" so it's unclear when the Boulevard St Germain address was abandoned exactly.
Karl Baedeker mentions Berteil in his guide Paris and Environs of 1878 as located on three addresses among which Boulevard St Germain 134.

Interesting tidbit is that Berteil gets mentioned in a few pre-war situations. First there are the testimonies concerning the serial killer Petiot (executed in 1946).
"To this Mme Braunberger has replied, "I went to Berteil's in the place Saint- Augustin, not in the rue du Quatre Septembre." 'Maitre Perles, Mme Braunberger's counsel, was not at all upset by this contradiction of his client and pointed out ..."
It gets mentioned too in the book "Memoirs of a secret agent of Free France" (Rémy, 1948).

Well, we're gonna need more of these hats, for the sake of science!

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

Hey guys: i have a story (ramble) of sorts.

Stefan, i believe yesterday i made comment in one of the threads that seeing this Berteil got me out of bed...well... you done it again my friend!! Thanks
I have a couple tidbits to share.

First: I did notice the different address on your lovely Berteil. To that all i can say is the box mine came in has the Paris address on it. It even came with a little French newspaper cartoon inside. Weird!
I posted the box, i think, in the box thread.
Second and most importantly:
I make no boast of knowing hats. All my life i have been comfortable in intelligent conversations with anyone about anything.
I could keep up with the best of them, you know, the i’m a genius expert guy who are you, kinda folks that need swatted with a fly-swatter! I truly enjoyed swatting the flys of life.
Not so with hats!!
I know a good hat when i see it but i can’t “teach” a good hat to someone. So i just shut up.
So i waited with this Berteil until someone who could “teach” a good hat opened the door for the conversation to begin. Thank you Stefan for opening that door.
Now i won’t be that “hat bumpkin” that says “Hey i got this here blue hat” and it’s a Cadet Blue Vita-Felt Strat or something. Duhh
Next: Red mentioned Market Level.
The only reason i have this Berteil is the ebay BIN was so exorbitant, i emailed the seller, some art collector kinda guy, in jest to ask if it was a one or TWO decimal point error, if not, what made it so valued. His response referenced a documented appraisal by some expert.
To the seller’s chagrin he failed to place a reserve price and got taken to the cleaners by two decimal points! Needless to say i was elated and amazed he even shipped the hat. He refused to ship the documentation. Ha
Forgive my ramble, but i have waited a long time to tell this story.
In short Stefan, et al, i think these Berteils to be somewhat special! Ha
I don’t call it a win for me but a win for the lounge.
Be well. Bowen

 

[steur]

Hey guys: i have a story (ramble) of sorts.

Stefan, i believe yesterday i made comment in one of the threads that seeing this Berteil got me out of bed...well... you done it again my friend!! Thanks
I have a couple tidbits to share.

First: I did notice the different address on your lovely Berteil. To that all i can say is the box mine came in has the Paris address on it. It even came with a little French newspaper cartoon inside. Weird!
I posted the box, i think, in the box thread.
Second and most importantly:
I make no boast of knowing hats. All my life i have been comfortable in intelligent conversations with anyone about anything.
I could keep up with the best of them, you know, the i’m a genius expert guy who are you, kinda folks that need swatted with a fly-swatter! I truly enjoyed swatting the flys of life.
Not so with hats!!
I know a good hat when i see it but i can’t “teach” a good hat to someone. So i just shut up.
So i waited with this Berteil until someone who could “teach” a good hat opened the door for the conversation to begin. Thank you Stefan for opening that door.
Now i won’t be that “hat bumpkin” that says “Hey i got this here blue hat” and it’s a Cadet Blue Vita-Felt Strat or something. Duhh
Next: Red mentioned Market Level.
The only reason i have this Berteil is the ebay BIN was so exorbitant, i emailed the seller, some art collector kinda guy, in jest to ask if it was a one or TWO decimal point error, if not, what made it so valued. His response referenced a documented appraisal by some expert.
To the seller’s chagrin he failed to place a reserve price and got taken to the cleaners by two decimal points! Needless to say i was elated and amazed he even shipped the hat. He refused to ship the documentation. Ha
Forgive my ramble, but i have waited a long time to tell this story.
In short Stefan, et al, i think these Berteils to be somewhat special! Ha
I don’t call it a win for me but a win for the lounge.
Be well. Bowen

That is a great story, Bowen. Love it. The seller can always take some consolation in knowing that the hat went to someone who appreciates it. And in my experience they do; especially when it concerns heirloom hats. Fathers' hat or grandfathers' hat do mean something special to people and they are not always able to hang on to it for a variety of reasons. In those cases it does matter if a hat gets picked up by someone who'll take care of it instead of some yokel who'll wear it to mardi-gras and then throw it away. Heck, I managed to get my nifty little steaming device (see the hatters tools thread) for half the price because I mailed the seller to let them know who I was and what I would use the device for.
I did mail the sellers of this Berteil hat asking them about its history. Have not heard from them yet, but it always interests me. This hat must have been on the high end of the spectrum and what I'm most surprised about is how modern or, a better description, timeless it looks.
And you do know a good hat when you see one: your house is full of them!

 

[Daniele Tanto]

We continue in the series of ancient French hats. I played a risky game and it went well.
Two black hats, among my favorites, with the shapes and proportions of hats made before the Second World War were on the market in France

I played a risky game and it went well, when they arrived I'm more happier that my expectations

This has very few indications, considering that the writing on the bottom of the crown has vanished and what remains is illegible

A small label in paper with a number is under the sweatband, all that is legible embossed on the sweatband
We call this "The perfection" considering that this seems to be its name

"Stylish is its second name

Felt is a mixture of furs and wool like others of the same age, around thirty, that I bought years ago

It is soft and malleable easy with hands. The brims are slightly more stiff, but bend without difficulty

The measures are as follows:
- brim, flat, rimmed by 7 cm black ribbon
. crown at the lowest 12cm point
- 5 cm ribbon with the stitching stitching again

For the time since its construction is in excellent condition and it is quite my size

After a good job of dusting, steam and brush and a "tonic" for the skin, the hat looks ready for its "new life"

 

[mayserwegener]

Daniele, Super finds! They appear to have similar construction. Do you think they are from the same company? Are the felts similar?

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Daniele, Super finds! They appear to have similar construction. Do you think they are from the same company? Are the felts similar?

Steve, I asked myself the question and my answer is: this hat comes from the Esperaza area, one in which wool is one of the main components for felt like the "Jean Peille" black that I bought last year. It was not done by J & B like the others I bought in Strasbourg. The felt is rougher and less "silky" than that of J & B, even if it has a light consistency to be such a massive hat, however the felt mix is wool and fur. There are not many indications and when you will be in Verona you can see it, in comparison with others of the same age. Today hat on my head is another product of the same area bought in these days.
Thanks for the compliments

 

[mayserwegener]

Daniele, I look forward to seeing them in person!

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Here is the other ancient French "Job" Chapelier Lezignan

What appears to be the older brother, since being stacked on top in the storage was eaten enough by moths.
Fortunately, it is not seen on black.

The hat is very similar to other French of the same period both in felt and in proportions

The hat was made in Lezignan in the Esperaza area and the felt is slightly different from "the Perfection", it is more silky and with less wool and the texture is different

It has a beautiful white lining and embossed on the sweatband what you see in the photographs

The proportions are: brim at 6 centimeters, crown at 13.5 centimeters and ribbon at 5 centimeters

It has a greater fit than the other, although both are size 59. I have a couple of examples of French hats of the same period and one with the same brand, with the same proportions, but now it's too hot to look for them

I hope to still have the opportunity to unearth such findings.

 

[steur]

We continue in the series of ancient French hats. I played a risky game and it went well.
Two black hats, among my favorites, with the shapes and proportions of hats made before the Second World War were on the market in France

I played a risky game and it went well, when they arrived I'm more happier that my expectations

This has very few indications, considering that the writing on the bottom of the crown has vanished and what remains is illegible

A small label in paper with a number is under the sweatband, all that is legible embossed on the sweatband
We call this "The perfection" considering that this seems to be its name

"Stylish is its second name

Felt is a mixture of furs and wool like others of the same age, around thirty, that I bought years ago

It is soft and malleable easy with hands. The brims are slightly more stiff, but bend without difficulty

The measures are as follows:
- brim, flat, rimmed by 7 cm black ribbon
. crown at the lowest 12cm point
- 5 cm ribbon with the stitching stitching again

For the time since its construction is in excellent condition and it is quite my size

After a good job of dusting, steam and brush and a "tonic" for the skin, the hat looks ready for its "new life"

Here is the other ancient French "Job" Chapelier Lezignan

What appears to be the older brother, since being stacked on top in the storage was eaten enough by moths.
Fortunately, it is not seen on black.

The hat is very similar to other French of the same period both in felt and in proportions

The hat was made in Lezignan in the Esperaza area and the felt is slightly different from "the Perfection", it is more silky and with less wool and the texture is different

It has a beautiful white lining and embossed on the sweatband what you see in the photographs

The proportions are: brim at 6 centimeters, crown at 13.5 centimeters and ribbon at 5 centimeters

It has a greater fit than the other, although both are size 59. I have a couple of examples of French hats of the same period and one with the same brand, with the same proportions, but now it's too hot to look for them

I hope to still have the opportunity to unearth such findings.

A real treat to see both of these hats, Daniele. Wonderful finds and a great peek into the hat styles of pre-war France. Lovely.

 

[mayserwegener]

A real treat to see both of these hats, Daniele. Wonderful finds and a great peek into the hat styles of pre-war France. Lovely.

Yes it's fantastic!

 

[drmaxtejeda]

Just bought this Mossant a little while ago. The listing said it was from the 50s or 60s. ScottF opines it might be older.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

 

[belfastboy]

I have a Mossant homburg from perhaps the 1940's. Wonderful felt. It has the leather sweat with the thin fabric thong and adjustment holes to cinch up the sizing. Downside is when I gave it a naptha bath to clean the years of grime the satin fabric of the liner stretched quite badly. Small issue as it is not noticed by anyone but me!

 

[steur]

Just bought this Mossant a little while ago. The listing said it was from the 50s or 60s. ScottF opines it might be older.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

It's a lovely hat, max. Hard to say which era, because Mossant didn't change their labels and tip liners much over the years, so there's not to go on. I did notive the colour is called "ris fer" on the label. I think that should be "gris fer" which is "iron grey". Borsalino has a hat colour of the same name.

 

[drmaxtejeda]

It's a lovely hat, max. Hard to say which era, because Mossant didn't change their labels and tip liners much over the years, so there's not to go on. I did notive the colour is called "ris fer" on the label. I think that should be "gris fer" which is "iron grey". Borsalino has a hat colour of the same name.

In Spanish it would be "gris fierro". Written French and Spanish are so similar it almost seems as if French was invented by a Spaniard with a speech impediment. [emoji2]

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

 

[Tukwila]

In Spanish it would be "gris fierro". Written French and Spanish are so similar it almost seems as if French was invented by a Spaniard with a speech impediment. [emoji2]

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

Jajajaja!

 

[M Hatman]

Here is the other ancient French "Job" Chapelier Lezignan

What appears to be the older brother, since being stacked on top in the storage was eaten enough by moths.
Fortunately, it is not seen on black.

The hat is very similar to other French of the same period both in felt and in proportions

The hat was made in Lezignan in the Esperaza area and the felt is slightly different from "the Perfection", it is more silky and with less wool and the texture is different

It has a beautiful white lining and embossed on the sweatband what you see in the photographs

The proportions are: brim at 6 centimeters, crown at 13.5 centimeters and ribbon at 5 centimeters

It has a greater fit than the other, although both are size 59. I have a couple of examples of French hats of the same period and one with the same brand, with the same proportions, but now it's too hot to look for them

I hope to still have the opportunity to unearth such findings.

I really like this one! That eagle and hemet are awsome! Great finds all!
M