Freewheelers worth it

[jeo]

I recently elaborated on this in another thread when it was discussed why FW is 'better' than Y2.

This is not about sloppy vs neat. For me the lack of character is in the construction techniques they use, they (=rainbow country) use techniques that make a jacket look 'cleaner'. Yes some of those techniques were also used back in the days but not everywhere throughout the jacket. Here's a few of the examples I used in that other thread.

View attachment 499469 View attachment 499470 View attachment 499468

When I put on one of these over-engineered jackets I feel like I'm wearing formal wear instead of the workwear it is supposed to be a reproduction of.

Exceptions are their Leathertogs and Peter's reproductions. Those are made pretty much exactly like the originals were made, no over-engineering.

Thanks for sharing. Somehow missed that thread.

 

[BloodEagle]

You don't have to have owned one to have an opinion, but I would consider the opinion of an owner to be more valid, since they have actual experience.

Of course it could work both ways, the owner convincing themself it has to be worth it because if it's not then they've wasted a lot of money.

I'd rather hear what owners have to say than someone who has only looked at pictures and price tags.

On that basis then I feel that I can contribute - I have owned a Freewheelers Mulholland and tried to convince myself that it wasnt ultimately a regrettable waste of money, but for me at least it most definitely was.

Obivously fit and comfort is subjective, but my experience is that it was the singularly most uncomfortable jacket I have ever worn (including all of the extremely ill fitting charity shop horror jackets I used to wear as a student/young man). It was made of extremely heavy leather, which is not in itself a problem, but it hung in such a way that it felt as if I was wearing a heavy horse saddle, not an expensive leather jacket.

The wrist openings were so narrow that trying to wear anything other than a t shirt with it was impossible unless you wanted to spend time and effort trying to sort it out.

I know others have owned and enjoyed FW Mulhollands, and different patterns fit some and not others, but they do indeed seem to come up for sale quite regularly, and I have to wonder if other peoples experience with them is perhaps similar to mine.

As the parting shot from this jacket, when I did sell it on at a conisderable but not unexpected loss, the incredibly hard to use and fiddly main hookless zipper basically disintegrated in my hand as I was packing it up for shipping. The guy who bought it from me (as an aside, an actual legitimate very well known rock musician who I'm not going to name drop in this thread) was cool about it though, so all was well. .

 

[Mister Rivets]

I love Freewheelers , However have bought jackets new with buttons falling off. This came exactly how you see it. This has not been washed or soaked.

 

[Marc mndt]

I love Freewheelers , However have bought jackets new with buttons falling off. This came exactly how you see it. This has not been washed or soaked.

I doubt these were produced by the same company that makes their leather jackets, Rainbow Country. In other words, the quality of textile FW items is unrelated to the quality of their leather jackets.

 

[Guppy]

Experience and trust can trump ownership. Most owners have little experience. And certainly less than the folks on here that I trust.

To your repeated point (dig) about price tags, certainly a self-described whale such as yourself paid full retail for their FW?

I didn't see that this was directed at me, but I'm not sure who else you would have been addressing.

I don't think I've ever described myself as a whale, so I'm not sure whether you were or weren't.

 

[ton312]

I doubt these were produced by the same company that makes their leather jackets, Rainbow Country. In other words, the quality of textile FW items is unrelated to the quality of their leather jackets.

Does this mean Freewheelers is actually just a generic label with subcontracted specialists depending on the material/pattern, etc?!?!

I hadn’t heard of this before but I would think it would raise many questions about what a Freewheelers jacket actually is. I mean, who stands behind the label and the work?

 

[Aloysius]

Does this mean Freewheelers is actually just a generic label with subcontracted specialists depending on the material/pattern, etc?!?!

No, not quite. Freewheelers is one of several companies that are the remnants of the original (now defunct) Real McCoys brand that established much of the repro market that we know, and used to be close with Toyo. (The current RMC is run by a bit of an asshole who wants to have a fashion brand, though I’ll grant they release some cool stuff.)

Freewheelers in particular is basically what used to be the workwear side of it, Toys McCoy (headed by the founder of the original RMC) is the Hollywood and related civilian wear aspect, etc. I get the impression that Rainbow Country itself is part of this ‘old regime’, if that makes sense.

That a different factory produces the leather and textile products, respectively, doesn’t indicate a difference in quality so much as skillset and specialization. Not suggesting it’s similar in scope but compare to something like Ralph Lauren which similar has in house patterns and specially commissioned fabrics but will have different factories like Caruso or St. Andrews execute them, except even more tight knit because I don’t think Rainbow Country is a generally available OEM.

 

[jeo]

Edit - forgot to quote @ton312 and doesn't allow to add after the fact

It isn't a model seen much today but think Sears and Montgomery Ward.

I don't know this for a fact, but I would imagine that while yes, the FW jackets are made in the RC factory, by RC people but to FW specifications.

 

[Canuck Panda]

Does this mean Freewheelers is actually just a generic label with subcontracted specialists depending on the material/pattern, etc?!?!

I hadn’t heard of this before but I would think it would raise many questions about what a Freewheelers jacket actually is. I mean, who stands behind the label and the work?

Freewheelers is a retail brand in Tokyo, they run their own stores, and they also sell their stuff through other retailers outside of Tokyo. They would place orders with a specialty wholesaler and the wholesaler would place order at the specific workshop. Sometimes the supply chain is more streamlined and the wholesaler could also be the owner of the smaller workshops. If a guy is giving you 80 percent of your capacity he basically owns your shop whether you like it or not. This is also why Japanese jackets cost more, there are more mouths to feed in the supply chain. Same thing with most Euro Luxury brands, they’re retail brands that might have some informal ownership of some manufacturing.
Same reason why Thurston Aero jackets cost more, because they’re technically a retailer, Aero being the workshop that actually make the jackets. Same with Thurston Vanson. The only odd ball is Thurston Thedi. Thurston Thedi cost same or less than Thedi Thedi.

 

[ton312]

No, not quite. Freewheelers is one of several companies that are the remnants of the original (now defunct) Real McCoys brand that established much of the repro market that we know, and used to be close with Toyo. (The current RMC is run by a bit of an asshole who wants to have a fashion brand, though I’ll grant they release some cool stuff.)

Freewheelers in particular is basically what used to be the workwear side of it, Toys McCoy (headed by the founder of the original RMC) is the Hollywood and related civilian wear aspect, etc. I get the impression that Rainbow Country itself is part of this ‘old regime’, if that makes sense.

That a different factory produces the leather and textile products, respectively, doesn’t indicate a difference in quality so much as skillset and specialization. Not suggesting it’s similar in scope but compare to something like Ralph Lauren which similar has in house patterns and specially commissioned fabrics but will have different factories like Caruso or St. Andrews execute them, except even more tight knit because I don’t think Rainbow Country is a generally available OEM.

Ah ok. That makes sense. Although the twisted evolution of what’s happened there has really left me confused. I’m not a believer and my knowledge of the history bears that out.

I do know I stopped being impressed around 2012-2015. Maybe that’s when the family tree was struck by lightening? I remember a very clear fork in the road, especially with RMC, where I felt they completely lost touch with what I felt was a careful eye and faithful attempt at recreating vintage originals.

 

[ton312]

Freewheelers is a retail brand in Tokyo, they run their own stores, and they also sell their stuff through other retailers outside of Tokyo. They would place orders with a specialty wholesaler and the wholesaler would place order at the specific workshop. Sometimes the supply chain is more streamlined and the wholesaler could also be the owner of the smaller workshops. If a guy is giving you 80 percent of your capacity he basically owns your shop whether you like it or not. This is also why Japanese jackets cost more, there are more mouths to feed in the supply chain. Same thing with most Euro Luxury brands, they’re retail brands that might have some informal ownership of some manufacturing.
Same reason why Thurston Aero jackets cost more, because they’re technically a retailer, Aero being the workshop that actually make the jackets. Same with Thurston Vanson. The only odd ball is Thurston Thedi. Thurston Thedi cost same or less than Thedi Thedi.

This is enlightening. So is it safe to say Freewheelers is to Japan as Thurston is to US? A middleman “designer” of sorts? With TB we know clearly who is doing the manufacture. Seems more convoluted with FW. The original RMC? Or Sugar Cane gang? The splintered history is actually more interesting than the product for me.

 

[Aloysius]

This is enlightening. So is it safe to say Freewheelers is to Japan as Thurston is to US? A middleman “designer” of sorts? With TB we know clearly who is doing the manufacture. Seems more convoluted with FW. The original RMC? Or Sugar Cane gang? The splintered history is actually more interesting than the product for me.

Canuck's explanation is completely wrong (no offense intended).

Yes, Freewheelers has some shops, but it's not an authorized dealer. They're brand-owned shops like Schott or Ralph Lauren not dealers like Thurston or Self Edge.

Freewheelers clothes are Freewheelers clothes.

 

[Canuck Panda]

This is enlightening. So is it safe to say Freewheelers is to Japan as Thurston is to US? A middleman “designer” of sorts? With TB we know clearly who is doing the manufacture. Seems more convoluted with FW. The original RMC? Or Sugar Cane gang? The splintered history is actually more interesting than the product for me.

This is my understanding. Most clothing brands in Japan are just clothing brands. they don’t make it themselves, except the super tiny shops like Electric Studio, Canyon Leathers, Fourspeed…etc. Single man operators so to speak. There is limited jackets one person can physically make.
Lots of middle guys in Japan. Not the worst thing, some of them do contribute to a better end product, but prices will be higher. This is why some Japanese jackets can be seen as more detailed. Two minds better than one. Not always the case but when it works it worked well.
The Toyo company is big, they can go get stuff made not just in Japan but also Korea and now US too. Still just a clothing brand that buys a jacket someone else made and put their label on.
however, i bet if I were to show up on the workshops front door they just lock me out.

 

[ton312]

Canuck's explanation is completely wrong (no offense intended).

Yes, Freewheelers has some shops, but it's not an authorized dealer. They're brand-owned shops like Schott or Ralph Lauren not dealers like Thurston or Self Edge.

Freewheelers clothes are Freewheelers clothes.

So before I go pound down a Sunday night, lounge infused Wild Turkey….
Freewheelers is made and sold by Freewheelers.

Various Freewheelers shops produce goods based on the shops speciality: leather vs wools, cottons, etc.

But nobody really knows who Freewheelers actually “is”? No identifiable founder, etc…?

Believed to be the core of old guard RMC/Sugar Cane?

This is why I don’t go further east east than the UK for leather jackets. LOL.

 

[Aloysius]

This isn't accurate.

A company that commissions custom manufacturing from an OEM manufacturer is not the same thing as a company that is a dealer for you to order from a company. The patterns, materials, and IP are proprietary.

 

[Aloysius]

So before I go pound down a Sunday night, lounge infused Wild Turkey….
Freewheelers is made and sold by Freewheelers.

Various Freewheelers shops produce goods based on the shops speciality: leather vs wools, cottons, etc.

But nobody really knows who Freewheelers actually “is”? No identifiable founder, etc…?

Believed to be the core of old guard RMC/Sugar Cane?

This is why I don’t go further east east than the UK for leather jackets. LOL.

It's all identifiable. The "middlemen"/"shops" side conversation is muddying it all.

Freewheelers is specifically the guys who ran the workwear side of (old) RMC. I forgot their names but it's public.

As for their leather stuff, old RMC used to have their leather made at a factory in New Zealand but that went out of business. So now they use Rainbow Country, which is an extremely high quality factory; my impression is that it's not even fully a third-party for them, that the two companies are basically partners.

 

[jeo]

FW was established in 2009 by Atsushi Yasui and "his friends". He is the designer that used to work at RMC that was responsible for all those awesome older RMC repros. Here's a great article about FW.

https://www.heddels.com/2018/11/freewheelers-behind-brand-many-sub-labels/

 

[Jasonissm]

This is my understanding. Most clothing brands in Japan are just clothing brands. they don’t make it themselves, except the super tiny shops like Electric Studio, Canyon Leathers, Fourspeed…etc. Single man operators so to speak. There is limited jackets one person can physically make.
Lots of middle guys in Japan. Not the worst thing, some of them do contribute to a better end product, but prices will be higher. This is why some Japanese jackets can be seen as more detailed. Two minds better than one. Not always the case but when it works it worked well.
The Toyo company is big, they can go get stuff made not just in Japan but also Korea and now US too. Still just a clothing brand that buys a jacket someone else made and put their label on.
however, i bet if I were to show up on the workshops front door they just lock me out.

From what I've heard, the patterns are all developed by Freewheelers and they specifically have high spec for their jackets made by RC. I also heard that RC makes for a whole lot of other brands but I don't know, don't see anything of the same construction methods, mostly just Y2 level being OEMed.

I assume most brands do all the pattern work which probably the most important part to me, and then send them off to factories to be made to their spec. Few brands like TCB have their own sewing factories and do construction in house

 

[Jasonissm]

It's all identifiable. The "middlemen"/"shops" side conversation is muddying it all.

Freewheelers is specifically the guys who ran the workwear side of (old) RMC. I forgot their names but it's public.

As for their leather stuff, old RMC used to have their leather made at a factory in New Zealand but that went out of business. So now they use Rainbow Country, which is an extremely high quality factory; my impression is that it's not even fully a third-party for them, that the two companies are basically partners.

Also quite interesting that Rainbow Country is still producing leather jackets throughout the past few years, while I believe the last Freewheelers release for The Wild One in 2021 had to be cancelled, due to not being able to source leather to their spec, and Freewheelers have paused production indefinitely while RC is still continues to release new jackets.

 

[RiteStuffBryan]

From what I've heard, the patterns are all developed by Freewheelers and they specifically have high spec for their jackets made by RC. I also heard that RC makes for a whole lot of other brands but I don't know, don't see anything of the same construction methods, mostly just Y2 level being OEMed.

I assume most brands do all the pattern work which probably the most important part to me, and then send them off to factories to be made to their spec. Few brands like TCB have their own sewing factories and do construction in house

Brands do not necessarily do their own pattern work, an experienced pattern maker will do a better job. Often pattern makers work at or for the “factory” themselves (most sewing factories/workshops in Japan are quite small).

I have clothing made for my brand in Japan so I know how I work, but generally brand owners are designers and run the business side of things, i.e. coming up with new designs, running a store/website, fulfilling orders, returns, taking photos to post online, working with stockists, working with designers on tags, collecting vintage clothing for reference and to copy details/patterns, observing the market and keeping up with trends, running social media, etc.

You then get fabric swatches from the mills and find workshops/factories willing to take on an order for your clothing item. This might mean various different workshops as some specialize in just shirts, pants, tees, etc. You give them your drawings/CAD/patterns or they help you with ODM. You sort your tags and supply them, you contact the mill and order the requisite fabric, etc. Sewing makes samples for you and you make adjustments (additional rounds of samples if necessary) before bulk production and in the end you receive the product you wanted that’s then ready to sell.