Freewheelers at Son of Stag

[Harris HTM]

And Real Mcoy? Though a well respected company here Real Mcoy sounds like someone is trying hard but just on he edge

Personally I accept only one McCoy to be "THE REAL" Mc Coy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_McCoy

 

[dudewuttheheck]

One thing I don’t understand is the opposing arguments used for leather jackets and other clothing by many members here.
That is the: “I must have a top tier, highest quality jacket” vs “I buy cheap jeans etc and $2 watch caps because they are just as good or because buying expensive clothes are crazy”.
My brain cannot compute this thinking! Speaking personally, I obsess over everything and regard all my clothing as important as my jacket. Perhaps this is because I am not a “jacket enthusiast” specifically...?
While I wouldn’t spend £150 on a watch cap from son of a stag, it is simply because of that shop’s crazy mark up - I did spend ¥8000 on a real McCoy’s one and have worn it for years without regret.

I'm with you. I make sure all of my clothing is quite high quality. I like jackets and boots, but if I have top tier versions of those, why would I buy cheap everything else?
I also did not spend the equivalent of $200 on a watch cap, but like you I did spend about $90 on a really good Buzz Rickson one because of how warm and comfortable it was. I had never found a wool cap that wasn't scratchy until I tried that one on.

 

[breezer]

I'm starting a watch cap thread soon....we can get to the bottom of this.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

I'm starting a watch cap thread soon....we can get to the bottom of this.

I approve of this!

 

[ton312]

I bought an eastman watch cap...$55 on ebay...seemed overpriced but looked well built (and it is). It's a nice cap but somehow the value to price point seems to fall really fast when you're talking about about a small piece of wool. Don't get me wrong, I do really like it but wouldn't buy another. Nobody on earth other than myself will recognize the quality over a $3 gas station version. One thing I have learned over the years...most expensive doesn't necessarily equate to quality. It equates solely to most expensive. Some people make that the priority and in my opinion, it shows, and it's not a good look. I guess it comes full circle to the old fashion vs style thing...When you're trying to hard, it's not hard to tell.

 

[Gav]

My buddy has the buzz version. I think it is a bit softer wool than the rmc one, the rmc feels like coarser yarn and had more of a raw feel when new.
I’ve washed mine a few times now though.

 

[Gav]

@ton312 i can certainly tell the difference between a $3 beanie and a virgin wool ww2 repro usn watch cap.

I also don’t just seek out expensive items but am particular about the details. I travel to Japan fairly regularly so buying there is not necessarily as costly as buying imported gear - fullcount jeans for example are about £160 in Japan compared with the £220-250 or whatever son of a stag charge. I think that is reasonable to pay for high quality selvage jeans.

Real McCoy’s sweats are about £100 when bought in japan. And this is with the shitty gbp exchange rates.

I also buy filson, Alden, Crockett and jones, redwing, Pendleton, ebbetts etc.

 

[dubpynchon]

Yes, the clothes as ironic statement thing is beyond me. But each to their own.

I’ve worn a B-3 and a floral shirt together, in my head I’m like Dennis Hopper in ‘Apocalypse Now’, but everyone else just sees a bald chap wearing a sheepskin jacket and a shirt. Philistines.

 

[Monitor]

I won't buy expensive jeans is because I know for a fact they won't last more than a few months on me. I mean, not that I wouldn't want to have some of those good jeans you guys talk about but I would need at least 30 pairs to feel comfortable so until then, I won't be wasting any substantial amount of money on jeans and pants in general. I consider them as disposable as socks.

And what Ton said, I just physically can't stand looking as if I'm trying to hard which consequently leads to not even trying.

Also, I don't think hipsters exist anymore - at least not in the most common form we've learn to identify them by. All that stuff we'd usually associate with hipsters in the past has long since entered mainstream fashion. Skinny jeans with pre-rolled cuffs, suspenders, shirts with ironic or kitschy imagery, etc. is pretty much all you can find at the clothes stores nowadays.

I'm not sure how I would differentiate a hipster from a fashionably dressed dude today. . . Not even the mustache helps.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

I won't buy expensive jeans is because I know for a fact they won't last more than a few months on me. I mean, not that I wouldn't want to have some of those good jeans you guys talk about but I would need at least 30 pairs to feel comfortable so until then, I won't be wasting any substantial amount of money on jeans and pants in general. I consider them as disposable as socks.

And what Ton said, I just physically can't stand looking as if I'm trying to hard which consequently leads to not even trying.

Also, I don't think hipsters exist anymore - at least not in the most common form we've learn to identify them by. All that stuff we'd usually associate with hipsters in the past has long since entered mainstream fashion. Skinny jeans with pre-rolled cuffs, suspenders, shirts with ironic or kitschy imagery, etc. is pretty much all you can find at the clothes stores nowadays.

I'm not sure how I would differentiate a hipster from a fashionably dressed dude today. . . Not even the mustache helps.

I think you're right. At this point, even if hipsters do exist we have no idea who they even are anymore.

I do wonder who can tell if we'e trying or not. I will admit that all of my clothing is quite expensive and I do love the details of everything that I own, but I don't know how many normal people can really tell. I honestly don't care if they think I'm trying hard or not because I absolutely love the way I dress.

@ton312 the thing about the watch cap is that I'm not sure anyone can tell if a watch cap is expensive. I bought mine because it was olive green, a rare color that I love, and it was actually extremely soft for wool so I would be able to wear it comfortably, and most importantly, it actually fit fairly well over my massive head. At that point, I didn't care about the price much because I had finally found a watch cap that I liked. I agree that when people prioritize buying the most expensive thing, it does show.

It's funny how divided people who care about their clothing are divided about being noticed. Some want to look anonymous and not stand out at all. Others are clearly trying way too hard to look like they have great taste. I'm not really sure which is the right answer. Personally, I don't care. Yes, I believe I dress pretty well and have fantastic taste in clothing and of course I like to showcase that for others of similar taste to me. Any of us who have shown off our new jacket have to admit the same. If you're on this forum and you don't think that, then you severely lack confidence or are fairly new and are here to learn. Of course, I still learn new information about this hobby all the time and am very thankful to this forum for that, but my point is that you should be confident about your clothing to the point where you shouldn't care if someone thinks you are trying too hard or if they mistake you for a normal, tasteless Joe.

 

[ton312]

@ton312 i can certainly tell the difference between a $3 beanie and a virgin wool ww2 repro usn watch cap.

I also don’t just seek out expensive items but am particular about the details. I travel to Japan fairly regularly so buying there is not necessarily as costly as buying imported gear - fullcount jeans for example are about £160 in Japan compared with the £220-250 or whatever son of a stag charge. I think that is reasonable to pay for high quality selvage jeans.

Real McCoy’s sweats are about £100 when bought in japan. And this is with the shitty gbp exchange rates.

I also buy filson, Alden, Crockett and jones, redwing, Pendleton, ebbetts etc.

No offense intended there Gav and you and I (and probably everyone here) can spot the difference. That's not the point. I've seen guys dressed in $50 worth of thrift store whatever look far more put together than I do in $1.2k jacket, $300 IH jeans and whatever else. Money can't buy style and I don't judge others style based on what I perceive as quality.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

No offense intended there Gav and you and I (and probably everyone here) can spot the difference. That's not the point. I've seen guys dressed in $50 worth of thrift store whatever look far more put together than I do in $1.2k jacket, $300 IH jeans and whatever else. Money can't buy style and I don't judge others style based on what I perceive as quality.

That's true as well, I can't deny that.
Part of that is, let's be honest, some guys are just better looking than others. I don't care what your views are, but the straightest man in the world will tell you that Chris Pratt in a ruined T shirt and cheap jeans looks better than me in my Himel jacket and Clinch boots.... and I would agree with them.

 

[Gav]

No offense intended there Gav and you and I (and probably everyone here) can spot the difference. That's not the point. I've seen guys dressed in $50 worth of thrift store whatever look far more put together than I do in $1.2k jacket, $300 IH jeans and whatever else. Money can't buy style and I don't judge others style based on what I perceive as quality.

None taken. I don’t buy and wear repro, nerd clothes to impress others, I wear this stuff because I like it and because I am fascinated and obsessed with it.

I also enjoy geeking out about repro stuff with other like minded folk.

 

[Superfluous]

I know guys who drive $250,000 sports cars, but wear $10 t-shirts . . . and people who drink $500 bottles of wine, but drive $30,000 cars. We all have different priorities. A beautiful jacket remains a beautiful jacket, regardless of the other components of the ensemble.

As with others here, my jacket obsession is the tip of the iceberg in terms of my clothing obsession. I am similarly obsessed many other clothing items. However, I do not dress to impress. To the contrary, I usually dress down and often look borderline indigent in a t-shirt, jeans and sneakers, even though my visually unpretentious clothing is manufactured to the highest standards. I do not care one iota if Joe Q Public recognizes the quality of my garments (if recognition was my priority, I would wear mainstream, recognized brands, as opposed to obscure, esoteric brands that 99.9% of people have never heard of -- ain't no one at the mall complimenting my Freewheelers flannel). I wear what I wear because I appreciate the underlying quality and craftsmanship. That is all that matters.

 

[Sloan1874]

During the Aero trial, there was a moment where the prosecution were running through the inventory, and they were running through the cost of some archive LVC and Lee jeans when it was decided to break for lunch. The moment the jury, sheriff et al walked out, the clerk of the court turned to me and shouted across to me 'who in their right mind pays £200 for a pair of jeans?'. How we laughed, but, y'know, here we are...

 

[ton312]

I know guys who drive $250,000 sports cars, but wear $10 t-shirts . . . and people who drink $500 bottles of wine, but drive $30,000 cars. We all have different priorities. A beautiful jacket remains a beautiful jacket, regardless of the other components of the ensemble.

Bingo!
This is what I'm driving at. A well put together, worn with confidence piece (or ensemble) is more than enough to earn my nod. Additionally, my perception of quality has zero bearing on the reality of a person who has style...And wears whatever they wear with confidence and swagger.

 

[rocketeer]

Personally I accept only one McCoy to be "THE REAL" Mc Coy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_McCoy

Before leather jackets I always thought Real McCoy was aGerman technotronic pop band.

 

[breezer]

I have the Mr Freedom - looks

During the Aero trial, there was a moment where the prosecution were running through the inventory, and they were running through the cost of some archive LVC and Lee jeans when it was decided to break for lunch. The moment the jury, sheriff et al walked out, the clerk of the court turned to me and shouted across to me 'who in their right mind pays £200 for a pair of jeans?'. How we laughed, but, y'know, here we are...

£100 is my self imposed limit for jeans....and even then it sounds like a lot!

 

[Edward]

Thank you Edward for your considered reply. At the start of this thread I drew attention to Son Of Stag selling Freewheelers navy watch caps for £150, and S4rmark replied that it was the hipsters who would buy them. This all leaves me very confused...........people can wear whatever, but its how they feel or think about those garments that defines them as hipsters, not the clothes themselves....am I right?

Pretty much, yeah.

As far as I can tell, when someone chucks out the H word to describe other people, they are talking about upwardly mobile people who like much of the following:

craft beer
coffee
tattoos
bicycles
vinyl & cassettes
film cameras
typewriters
skinny jeans
not wearing socks
and generally those folks who are fashion conscious

I'm sure there's more, but I'm pretty sure I would fall into the H bracket......I've drank Turmeric Latte in Fiitzroy and PBR in Brooklyn.....I ride a bicycle and wear selvedge denim, own vinyl and often frequent charity shops and flea markets in search of vintage items.....my name is Breezer and I think I might be a hipster!

Heh. Ultimately, as with any youth cult, after a certain point (especially when elements of the 'look' get co-opted into mainstream fashion) you realise that you can have a generic definition that covers a lot of bases... I mean, look at punk: Blondie, The Sex Pistols, the Ramones, The Jags..... to name just four that are very obvious, typically grouped as 'punks' and yet very different in many ways.... These days, with intersectionality being such a buzzword, maybe the reality is that the old tribal divisions, while not exactly irrelevant, certainly aren't a rigid as once they were.

One thing I don’t understand is the opposing arguments used for leather jackets and other clothing by many members here.
That is the: “I must have a top tier, highest quality jacket” vs “I buy cheap jeans etc and $2 watch caps because they are just as good or because buying expensive clothes are crazy”.
My brain cannot compute this thinking! Speaking personally, I obsess over everything and regard all my clothing as important as my jacket. Perhaps this is because I am not a “jacket enthusiast” specifically...?

I totally understand where you're coming from there. It always seems odd to me that you can get some guys who will spend big on a jacket and then won't put the money into boots. I guess, in part, it's becasue if you're into vintage style in a jacket alone, there just aren't cheap alternatives.... If I wanted to, I could find a serviceable Brando-style leather jacket at under £100, but if I want a prewar, halfbelt-style I don't have much choice but to go to a high end maker. So maybe in part people who only buy one expensive part of the outfit and go cheap elsewhere are buying into the style and can't findacheap alternative theyr'e hapyp with the way they feel they can jeans, or whatever.

Part of t may also be a durability thing. There are folks who take Monitor's position: "whatever jeans I wear will wear out at the crotch in a year, so I don't want to spend big on jeans, whereas I can buy a leather jacke that will last a lifetime, so I'll put the money on that." Sometimes this is a 'real' thing, sometimes it's just perception, but that's the thought-pattern. Maybe too somebody's introduction to leather jackets was to premium, expensive product, whereas with hats it was cheap stuff that they felt did the job just fine, so their expectations are different. I've also noted differing views on price over the years depending on when someone got into the vintage thing: a guy who was buying forties stuff in the late eighties when it was culty and the mainstream wasn't interested might baulk at spending £600 on a repro 30s suit, whereas a guy who buys bespoke normally from a contemporary tailor might see it as a bargain.

Also, there's the simple reality that, for all we're chasing an aesthetic from seventy years ago, different vintaged styles go in and out of fashion in the "vintage community". Fedoras might reign supreme for years, then everyone is into caps. When I irst hung out on TFL, this area was all about heavy leather and one-piece backs; these days I hear the name 'Vicenza' more than I do Horween, medium weight hides are king, and the craftsmanship in multi-panel backs is all the rage. I think a lot of people still think of some things, like ac jacket, as an investment piece, whereas jeans might be - as Monitor puts it - disposable to them.

 

[Edward]

I'm with you. I make sure all of my clothing is quite high quality. I like jackets and boots, but if I have top tier versions of those, why would I buy cheap everything else?
I also did not spend the equivalent of $200 on a watch cap, but like you I did spend about $90 on a really good Buzz Rickson one because of how warm and comfortable it was. I had never found a wool cap that wasn't scratchy until I tried that one on.

Certainly I think with most stuff most people will have a point where too much is too much. Others will be prepared to pay for quality, but so many other things than just quality of product can affect retail price. An established, popular maker might be able to sell something that is, for all intents and purposes the same product and quality as a new brand, or abrand which has had an image crisis for whatever reason. (Let's not get into putting examples to that for the ake of civil discourse!)

@ton312 i can certainly tell the difference between a $3 beanie and a virgin wool ww2 repro usn watch cap.

I think there are two key questions one always has to ask onesself when choosing between two items of a particular type:

1] Is the one that is £X more expensive better?

2] Is it £X better?

One of the reasons I play an Epiphone Les Paul and not a Gibson version is that while I regard the Gibson as twice as good, I don't think it's worth five times the price of the Epi. Others will disagree; after a point, it's all down to subjective value judgements rather than objectively right or wrong, better or worse.

I also don’t just seek out expensive items but am particular about the details. I travel to Japan fairly regularly so buying there is not necessarily as costly as buying imported gear - fullcount jeans for example are about £160 in Japan compared with the £220-250 or whatever son of a stag charge. I think that is reasonable to pay for high quality selvage jeans.

See, we're on the same page there. You like the quality of the Japanese stuff, can appreciate the difference, but obviously there's an upper limit as to what that is worth to you.

I’ve worn a B-3 and a floral shirt together, in my head I’m like Dennis Hopper in ‘Apocalypse Now’, but everyone else just sees a bald chap wearing a sheepskin jacket and a shirt. Philistines.

Heh. I know a guy who used to wear a Superman t-shirt - the traditional blue with the 's' logo on it - because he as a fan of Nietsche....

And what Ton said, I just physically can't stand looking as if I'm trying to hard which consequently leads to not even trying.

I remember reading about a psychological experiment that was done at a university some years ago - maybe 25 years back. They held an art exhibition with the public invited. The individuals recruited to the study were each given a Barry Manilow t-shirt to wear, and, one at a time, sent out to wander around the exhibition, in front of everyone, wearing that. Manilow was chosen as being an artist who had no credibility among these students, and it was considered to be embarassing by them to be seen in it. Afterwards, they interviewed both groups. The students in the shirts professed to being mortified, to feeling everyone was looking and laughing at them.... and the vast majority of people didn't even notice. Which is the truth: most people simply won't care or even notice much in the detail about how you dress, so I wouldn't worry about it....

Also, I don't think hipsters exist anymore - at least not in the most common form we've learn to identify them by. All that stuff we'd usually associate with hipsters in the past has long since entered mainstream fashion. Skinny jeans with pre-rolled cuffs, suspenders, shirts with ironic or kitschy imagery, etc. is pretty much all you can find at the clothes stores nowadays.

I'm not sure how I would differentiate a hipster from a fashionably dressed dude today. . . Not even the mustache helps.

Well, typically they'll be the ones who think it's all such a laugh, and carry themselvesl ike they're in a costume.... Plenty of 'em still round my way!

I do wonder who can tell if we'e trying or not. I will admit that all of my clothing is quite expensive and I do love the details of everything that I own, but I don't know how many normal people can really tell. I honestly don't care if they think I'm trying hard or not because I absolutely love the way I dress.

Most people won't even notice. Particularly if you blend in in the basics: jacket, t-shirt, jeans. The average bod on the street won't notice the difference between the top of the line BuzzB15C and yer standard, army surplus £25 bouncer-uniform MA1alike. My other half - who has a great eye for detail and knows a hell of a lot about vintage womenswear - recently confused a CWU45alike in a charity shop for an MA1 ("skinhead jacket" she said).

@ton312 the thing about the watch cap is that I'm not sure anyone can tell if a watch cap is expensive. I bought mine because it was olive green, a rare color that I love, and it was actually extremely soft for wool so I would be able to wear it comfortably, and most importantly, it actually fit fairly well over my massive head. At that point, I didn't care about the price much because I had finally found a watch cap that I liked. I agree that when people prioritize buying the most expensive thing, it does show.[/quote]

Well, for those who know how to spot it, I think quality shows, but that's not necessarily the most expensive option every time.