Frank Lloyd Wright Hotel Restoration & Whats wrong with current building practice?

[Twitch]

After WW II there was mass movement to modernize everything. With Europe in ruins danged near everything had to be new. In the US after the Dust Bowl, Depression and years of frugality during the war people were ready for new looks. It's hard to castigate our ancestors back over a span of well over half a century that they should have preserved this or that.

People simply weren't in the conservation mood. The technology, industry and the economy were rushing headlong to the future. And the future didn't have creaky-looking old buildings from 1901 in it. They bought new cars that looked far from anything made in the 1930s. They divested themselves of those old cars because they reminded them of the hard times and sacrifices of the 30s and war years. Sure we look at them differently in 2007 but back then they were just old cars and old buildings.

In 1947 there was no real movement or interest in notable architecture appreciation of previous eras. There was no conservation of much of anything. Certainly there was no money to preserve a notable old building at a certain corner if urban expansion dictated another use format requiring a new layout. Yeah it's cool to have the old Firehouse just as it was in 1890 but when a national company offers lucrative expansion plans that will provide construction jobs now and other jobs later the reality was to take the offer before another town did.

We now have the luxury and money to pick and choose what businesses we will allow or what buildings ought to be considered as historical. As the nation was expanding back then all we cared about was building a future that would never again hurt us like the Depression did. If that meant replacing ye olde Firehouse with a shoe manufacturing plant the choice for payback was clear.

Anyhow I'm not sour on preservation as such but simply showing the mindset of people that did things before us. From our position relative to today it may seem obvious but it wasn't always so.

 

[Starius]

You make some very interesting observations there, Twitch. Some things I wouldn't have considered, particularly the depression being both a motivation for progress and representing a past that many would rather forget.

Certainly in the 50s and 60s there was a great movement for futurism and forward thinking again, with the space race being a big component in that motivation. I imagine that old architecture would also be "out of cultural style" during this period of time.

If what you propose is true, then it might also explain latter generations "lack of interest" in architecture, at least a lack of enthusiasm that was previously seen in the boom of architecture between the late 1890s to the 1930s. These people, raised by those who were not appreciating what was build in the past, had little appreciation for the old buildings and thus, no issue with seeing them torn down in recent decades.

It seems to me that most architectural preservation you would have seen through the 80s to now would be if some particular "event" or "person" was associated with the building, and not just for the building's own merit. And even then, it would still be a struggle to save it.

 

[RondoHatton]

Oh, nothing's wrong, see, it's for your own good!

...With four shopping centers on every corner of every section of my town...

I remember reading a quote from a City Council member, about approving minimall after minimall, that "...well, they can't all be Frank lloyd Wright beauties...", and me instantly spluttering through bloody froth:
There Isn't A Damn One! Show me ONE fercackta FLLW stripmall, fer cripes sake! About the ONE nice "shopping center" I'm aware of, I am afraid to mention the Coldwater Curve shopping area south of the Boulevard in Studio City (Neutra? Schindler?) for sake it will be "improved" into Tuscan Condos! FOR SHAME!
And I have read about Wright's (ahem) proclivities too. Phew!

 

[Tomasso]

Demolish good buildings that would cost a small amount to rehabilitate, spend a fortune on new construction

Actually, renovation costs can come close to or, in the case of historic properties, even exceed the cost of new construction. The thing that drives the renovation of many old buildings today are the tax incentives offerd by municipalities. You're also seeing the use of these older buildings being converted from commercial to residential as in most cases they do not function properly for their intended use.

As for Wright, everyone who has ever lived in one of his homes has the same complaint; they leak. [huh]

 

[Ande1964]

There's a great example of beautiful style that doesn't quite transfer to great practicality in Falling Water. In the main room there's a huge fireplace, accented by a large metal globe, which was meant to be filled with cider or water, and then swung over the fire to be heated.

It's beautiful, but on the tour they told us that the original owners tried it once, discovered that it took forever to get the contents even lukewarm, and never used it for its intended purpose again.

Looks great though!

Anj

 

[cookie]

After WW II there was mass movement to modernize everything. With Europe in ruins danged near everything had to be new. In the US after the Dust Bowl, Depression and years of frugality during the war people were ready for new looks. It's hard to castigate our ancestors back over a span of well over half a century that they should have preserved this or that.

People simply weren't in the conservation mood. The technology, industry and the economy were rushing headlong to the future. And the future didn't have creaky-looking old buildings from 1901 in it. They bought new cars that looked far from anything made in the 1930s. They divested themselves of those old cars because they reminded them of the hard times and sacrifices of the 30s and war years. Sure we look at them differently in 2007 but back then they were just old cars and old buildings.

In 1947 there was no real movement or interest in notable architecture appreciation of previous eras. There was no conservation of much of anything. Certainly there was no money to preserve a notable old building at a certain corner if urban expansion dictated another use format requiring a new layout. Yeah it's cool to have the old Firehouse just as it was in 1890 but when a national company offers lucrative expansion plans that will provide construction jobs now and other jobs later the reality was to take the offer before another town did.

We now have the luxury and money to pick and choose what businesses we will allow or what buildings ought to be considered as historical. As the nation was expanding back then all we cared about was building a future that would never again hurt us like the Depression did. If that meant replacing ye olde Firehouse with a shoe manufacturing plant the choice for payback was clear.

Anyhow I'm not sour on preservation as such but simply showing the mindset of people that did things before us. From our position relative to today it may seem obvious but it wasn't always so.

That about sums up the post WWII world and this is what people like the Pof W talk about ...so-called progress...but then hindsight gives you 20/20 vision. The problem with progress is the lack of planning and good architecture... FLW did not fight progress but tried to embrace it and technology with organic architecture mixing the old the new and the quirky.

 

[Starius]

That about sums up the post WWII world and this is what people like the Pof W talk about ...so-called progress...but then hindsight gives you 20/20 vision. The problem with progress is the lack of planning and good architecture... FLW did not fight progress but tried to embrace it and technology with organic architecture mixing the old the new and the quirky.

I think you are very close to being spot on there... however, I don't think that is "progress" per say but that is precisely the problem. That is what progress often gets mistaken for these days... but its not progress, its "cheap commercialization of structures." At least thats what I believe has replaced "progress."

True progress, in my mere humble farmboy opinion, would indeed incorporate function AND style into modern architecture. What kind of style is irrelevant, as long as it does draw upon something.

Take the days of industrialization, for example. Nouveau sprung out of the early days of industrialization, it was a style that sought to harmonize the duality of nature and the new world of industrialization. Then, a short time later, Deco style arose from the views of a utopian future that industrialization was leading us towards. Say what you will about either style, they were born as a commentary of the age.

So what does the architecture of today say of the times? That library I mentioned earlier, that looked like a tool shed? To me, that simply says "Books don't mean a lot to us so here is where we keep em out of the rain."
Somehow buildings are now just more a matter of utility than a experience. And sure, that IS their basic function after all... but in cities in particular, they are ALSO the main environment. How could you not want to invoke a rich texture of emotions and experiences through architecture?

I know expense really is a big factor here as well. But big bucks and style are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Tomasso]

Sometimes they get it right!

at least replace the thing with as much as or more architectural character than what was before it!

A while back, the Chicago Public Library, having outgrown its century old digs............

......built what I consider to be an admirable replacement. The old library is now the Chicago Cultural Center.

 

[Starius]

Woah, nice example Tomasso!

They kept the same kind of classical greek / roman architecture feel going on.

And the original building is still around too. That is a nice win win situation right there.

 

[cookie]

Wow! - Giant Acrotiria

A while back, the Chicago Public Library, having outgrown its century old digs............

......built what I consider to be an admirable replacement. The old library is now the Chicago Cultural Center.

You see those things on the ends of Greek temples but not that size..:eusa_clap

 

[Twitch]

As you mention Tomasso, saving some old building can exceed the cost per sq. ft. of building new. We need to rebuild, restore, retro-fit, strengthen and maintain old buildings. It simply comes down to cost as does everything.

We must decide if we want to produce a usefull space or one that a minority will like to look at. In California we have earthquake codes in building that are retro-active in old buildings being rennovated. If a historical building can't be be made safe or can't be made safe under the budget then it must be left alone for visual use only since it would be illegal to use it without complete strengthening to code.

Sometimes I wonder when I hear of how some building that will require extensive rebuilding to the tune of $10 million wouldn't be better used to fund youth programs.

 

[Starius]

Well, I must have put my name and address down somewhere (but not very well, because my last name was horrendously misspelled) because I received a Wright on the Park newsletter.

So I thought I would share it with you all here, because thats the kind of guy I am.

x x x x x

 

[Miss_Bella_Hell]

FLW was a genius, and he certainly had vision, but those visions were frequently leaky and chilly. I'd still kill any one of you to be able to live in one of his private homes, however. As a student of architectural history, I also love the works of modern architects such as Richard Meier. http://www.richardmeier.com/

 

[Eliza]

Wright in New York

http://www.peterbeers.net/interests/flw_rt/New_York/new_york.htm

I have seen his work in Buffalo but I have not yet seen his work in Derby or Rochester...

 

[BegintheBeguine]

Eliza, if you ever visit Rochester please let me know, we will do the town. My parents have friends who lived on the short boulevard that included the Wright house here.

 

[Eliza]

My word! You are next door in Rochester! I have a friend in Webster that I visit and I go to Buffalo as often as I can. I am south of Oswego and north of Syracuse.

 

[Laura Chase]

I was just deeply awe-struck by Frank Lloyd Wright's Fallingwater house and wanted to share. I love that it isn't the white, eye-blinding modernism that is still so dominating today, but the in stead a cave-like effect with sculpted soft light coming from the windows, not directly and thus blinding, but reflected from various nature-surfaces... The light in the rooms is just amazing, not too bright.

Also, the nature-culture combo and again, the cave-feeling.

 

[docneg]

My day spent at Falling Water was one of the most memorable of my life.Anj

Tell me about it. I went there with my girlfriend and her friend many years ago. The girlfriend threw me over, and I ended up marrying the friend (but now divorced)! Top that one for a Wright story!

 

[Nick D]

If you ask me... it wasn't worth taking down. I think the original had far more character than the current one. But in small towns, you see this all the time!
Old buildings with such character don't get taken care of and get torn down and replaced with... well, they get replaced with "blah buildings" at best. Small towns have it rough these days, why do we hurt ourselves even further by subtracting our character and heritage? If a building has to go down, at least replace the thing with as much as or more architectural character than what was before it! There is a town near here that has a public library that looks like a tin sided tool shed. Hardly the kind of building to invoke inspiration or stir the imagination.
...
Any of you live in smaller towns that are holding on to classic architecture?

Back home there were several old buildings that were slated for demolition in the '90s, but by public outcry were saved and rennovated.

Unfotunately the same hasn't been true on campus. NMU was founded in 1899, but now all the buildings are 60s and 70s public architecture. The last of the old buildings was pulled down about 10 years ago.

 

[texasgirl]

A couple of days ago we watched the Ken Burns documentary on Frank Lloyd Wright. It was quite interesting, as I really didn't know much about him.

They are having the festival again this year on September 19. I'll try to get over and take some more pictures of the Park Inn. I believe it will be finished in 2011. There is also the only prairie school house in Iowa there, The Stockman House.