Former Navy planes from the 1930s used in fire

[Miss Neecerie]

From the LA times...thought it would be of interest.


Former Navy planes from the 1930s used in fire

Lake Elsinore:

One of the last remaining models of the largest flying boat ever mass produced was expected to take off from Lake Elsinore today to fight California's raging wildfires.

Brought from Canada to help in the firefighting effort, the Martin Mars JRM III was expected to take off from Seaport Boat Launch at Lake Elsinore before noon today, headed first for the Harris fire in San Diego County, said Wayne Coulson, whose company, Coulson Flying Tankers, owns two Martin Mars JRM III planes.

The aircraft carries 7,200 gallons of water, enough to cover an area of four acres. The aircraft was loaded with a mix of water and Thermo-Gel, a material that helps expedite firefighting.

A smaller aircraft owned by the California Fire Department was expected to fly ahead to tell the pilot of the Martin Mars JRM III where to drop a combination of water and Thermo-Gel.

"It's like a four-acre blanket laid ... when the fire burns up to the Thermo-Gel, it puts it out," said Wayne Coulson.

Coulson Flying Tankers owns the last two remaining Martin Mars JRM III, which were used by the U.S. Navy in the late 1930s for ocean patrol, Coulson said.

Coulson Flying Tankers renovated the planes. The company, based on Vancouver Island, British Columbia, contracts with fire departments to combat fires.

Coulson bought the two aircraft six months ago and began discussions with fire authorities in California in the weeks before the fires.

Coulson would not say how much he paid for the planes, other than to say they were a "significant investment." Nor would he say how much he is receiving from California the service.

Perry Esquer, aircraft manager from the San Diego Fire Department, said the exact fee had not been determined yet.

"We heard the governor say that we need to do what it takes to put these fires out. With that being said, there has not been a lot said about numbers. The idea is to get water on this fire first," Esquer said.

 

[Fletch]

A bit off - the Mars project began in 1938, but the prototype didn't fly till 1942 and the Navy didn't take delivery till '45 - and by then they wanted no part of 4-engine patrol bombers, which in modern warfare weren't much better than great big flying targets. The 7 Marses ordered were configured as transports and never flew patrols.

More on the Mars, the world's largest production flying boat

In Navy transport service, 1950s

WW2 era ad promising future commercial service by Mars. In reality, with a peacetime world full of leftover airstrips and DC-3s, the flying hotel would not have a chance against the flying cattle car.

 

[Twitch]

Yeah historically a lot of WW II-era aircraft have been used over the years as firefighting aircraft. By now every other one has been retired due to age and uniqueness for which they've been acquired by those wishing to restore them to military status.

Part of the problem has been that most are stripped of most original and non-essential to firefighting equipment when converted. So when they are saved for restoration everything from WW II isn't there and must be sought from around the world.

 

[carter]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071026...ed_aircraft;_ylt=AhGqCSa3pzwvq3Sdq3v4095vzwcF

Interesting article today on possibility that aerial fire-fighting helicopters and planes were snarled in beaurocracy and red tape when they were most needed and potentially most effective in battling the wildfires in CA.

Not to make this political, but does anyone remember Katrina?

This has less to do with politics than it does with governmental inefficiency, special interests, and 'pork barrel' agendas no matter what your political affiliation.

 

[Midnight Palace]

Thanks for the interesting article!

 

[Miss Neecerie]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071026...ed_aircraft;_ylt=AhGqCSa3pzwvq3Sdq3v4095vzwcF

Interesting article today on possibility that aerial fire-fighting helicopters and planes were snarled in beaurocracy and red tape when they were most needed and potentially most effective in battling the wildfires in CA.

Not to make this political, but does anyone remember Katrina?

This has less to do with politics than it does with governmental inefficiency, special interests, and 'pork barrel' agendas no matter what your political affiliation.

which is thus -political-....

why does everything....a story about some cool planes...have to turn into the governmental debate...


geez.....

 

[carter]

which is thus -political-....
why does everything....a story about some cool planes...have to turn into the governmental debate...
geez.....

OK, I really don't intend this to be snarky but, why don't we ask the folks who lost their homes and those who lost loved ones.

At the end of the day, there are real victims, perhaps many more than there might have been. That's it for me.

 

[Miss Neecerie]

OK, I really don't intend this to be snarky but, why don't we ask the folks who lost their homes and those who lost loved ones.

At the end of the day, there are real victims, perhaps many more than there might have been. That's it for me.

AGAIN....this was a story about the PLANES....not the fires, or any other -planes- that were or were not used.

Story was about the Martin Mars JRM III. A Golden Era plane being used to help. Nothing more, nothing less.

Not sure why that is so hard to understand.

 

[carter]

AGAIN....this was a story about the PLANES....not the fires, or any other -planes- that were or were not used.
Story was about the Martin Mars JRM III. A Golden Era plane being used to help. Nothing more, nothing less.
Not sure why that is so hard to understand.

Miss Neecerie,

Since I am neither obtuse nor devoid of understanding and have been soundly chastized again, thanks for the clarification.

In the interest of civility, can we drop this now?

I apologize for sparking your ire.

Carter

 

[Forgotten Man]

We understand that keeping on topic is important however, Miss Neecerie, I’d like to quote something you said to me in a previous thread:

And pretty much every thread here at the Lounge does a weaving pattern in terms of staying on topic.

If you think about it, one can not talk about “Fire Bombers” with out the problem at hand in which they are being used for… FIRE!

I find it festinating that they are using some older aircraft to fight these wild fires. For days I have seen fire fighters from Northern CA drive to the San Diego area on the free way. It is amazing how every county and City has come together to battle this blaze.

The “Fire Bomber”:

We can thank many fire departments for using these aircraft from their decommission after WWII to the 1970’s for keeping them in the air… and making them available to people or groups rather who wish to restore these old bombers to war time condition. If there were no fire bombers, it’s very possible that we’d have no B-17’s or other large bombers today.

My Aunt and Uncle were certain that their cabin up in Arrowhead was toasted… theirs was one of the lucky survivors in that area. My heart goes out to those families who have lost everything including loved ones.

Thank you.

 

[Absinthe_1900]

It's fortunate the Martin Mars survived the postwar scrap heap, and is still able to earn their keep, long after the other large flying boats were cut up for scrap.

You are seeing the very last of a type of aircraft, that for the most part has all but vanished.

A tip of the hat to pilots, and planes, that are flying pretty dangerous mission. (Flying a heavily loaded plane, though a large fire isn't as easy as it looks from a distant camera's viewpoint.)

 

[Forgotten Man]

How right you are! When ever I hear the deep drone of old radial motors in the sky, I get the most insane chills down my back... and when I see the cause of it, it's a treasured spectacle that will leave a lasting impression upon my mind for the rest of my life.

The men who fly fire bombing missions do make it look easy but, it isn't... up drafts and rising heat make it a tricky and dangerous job. Just watch the movie "Always" and you'll get an idea of what fire bombing is like in vintage aircraft... well, Hollywood's take on it anyway.

 

[Twitch]

As a side line- the Mars was the plane the Navy sent up to search for Flight 19 over the Bermuda Triangle when they were assumed down. It was a notorious gas leaker and the one up looking exploded killing the whole crew lending more to the mystery.

 

[Fletch]

Not the Mars, but its little sister the PBM Mariner, a twin-engine patrol boat.

PBM-5 with antisub radome

The Mars was just being delivered in '45 and in any case, the Navy never used it in a patrol role.

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

Did the Mars really show up at San Diego? Flying one of those long distances over land would worry me, if they had to make an emergency landing along the way, they'd be in big trouble. I guess they could chart a route that passes over some large lakes and such.

I have a dim memory of seeing a B-17 fire bomber at Rohnerville, near Eureka in northern California, back in the early 1970s. I also saw some of the Grumman S-2 Trackers that they still use.

I'd love to see the Mars, the last big flying boat that still flies and the last link to the era of the Clippers.

 

[Twitch]

Oh yeah, I'm thinking of another Triangle happening later where a Mars was used in search and rescue once. Book's out in the garage and I can't get out there now....