Forget Indiana Jones, the greatest hat movie ever must be The Sting,question follows

[Pat_H]

I like both films, of course.

Anyhow I was watching The Sting yesterday, and was struck by all the caps and fedoras. Even a couple of Homburgs shows up. And boaters And there's quite a variety of fedoras at that.

Which brings up this question. This movie is set in 1936 in Chicago, and the clothing is supposed to represent that of the period, and that location. By and large, based on period photos, the portrayal would have been relatively accurate.

So here's the question. Why was the general clothing standard of that era so high? It seems to have been higher than the era that proceeded it, if we go back some 20 or more years, and it was certainly far higher than today. What was going on that that would account for that?

 

[Rick Blaine]

I like both films, of course.

Anyhow I was watching The Sting yesterday, and was struck by all the caps and fedoras. Even a couple of Homburgs shows up. And boaters And there's quite a variety of fedoras at that.

Which brings up this question. This movie is set in 1936 in Chicago, and the clothing is supposed to represent that of the period, and that location. By and large, based on period photos, the portrayal would have been relatively accurate.

So here's the question. Why was the general clothing standard of that era so high? It seems to have been higher than the era that proceeded it, if we go back some 20 or more years, and it was certainly far higher than today. What was going on that that would account for that?

... are we talking about the standard to which people dressed? ( i.e.- no gravy stained sweat suits that are two sizes too small with yr. gut & butt hanging out & flip flops on your feet?) or the quality of cut & materials, or both?

I must say, I was in Montreal last week & it is doubtlessly the best dressed city I have ever seen. Almost everyone I saw was well dressed, the women? Elegant!

I just think our standards have eroded. My Granddad wore a tie when gardening, fer cryin' out loud.

BTW- I love The Sting too, great art direction, fantastic turns by Newman, Redford & Shaw and that fantastic Joplin score

 

[leo]

... I was in Montreal last week & it is doubtlessly the best dressed city I have ever seen...

Last night we were watching the opening ceremonies of the NHL game in Toronto. The cameras swept the crowd quite a bit and my wife, unsolicited, commented on how much better dressed the attendees were compared to those that usually surround us at U.S. games.

Bill

 

[jake_fink]

Last night we were watching the opening ceremonies of the NHL game in Toronto. The cameras swept the crowd quite a bit and my wife, unsolicited, commented on how much better dressed the attendees were compared to those that usually surround us at U.S. games.

Bill

That might also have something to do with the price of tickets in a hockey-mad city. A hockey game has become an event as expensive and exclusive as a night at the opera used to be. People in Toronto are generally not very well-dressed (myself notwithstanding )

 

[Art Fawcett]

Pat, the first thing to remember is that this is a film, not real life, so it will be magnified for screen.
That said and aware that you are taking this into account, it was more about social standards then vs now. This was a time when ettiquite mean't more socially than it seems to today. Society tended to reject those that didnt conform much more quickly than today's PC climate. Thus, even those with less tended to take more pride in appearance than today. It didn't hurt that the styles were so much more flattering either.

 

[Lensmaster]

I once watched a Walter Huston movie, Dodsworth, that was made in 1936. In the movie there was a march of unemployed men heading to Washington to protest. It was a several day journey to draw attention to their plight. So they were walking and camping. In the crowd scenes of this virtually every man was wearing a suit and tie and hat. That was just the standard of the time. That may be a little extreme for today but I wish society was a little more elegant.

 

[Pat_H]

Pat, the first thing to remember is that this is a film, not real life, so it will be magnified for screen.
That said and aware that you are taking this into account, it was more about social standards then vs now. This was a time when ettiquite mean't more socially than it seems to today. Society tended to reject those that didnt conform much more quickly than today's PC climate. Thus, even those with less tended to take more pride in appearance than today. It didn't hurt that the styles were so much more flattering either.

Excellent point regarding it being a film, as indeed, everything is exaggerated for films, at least to some extent.

Still, the oddity (as all these posts point out), is that on average, people were obviously more concerned with their appearance. Yet, at the same time, a higher percentage of Americans worked in manual labor then, by far, than now.

And, even during the Great Depression, we find people being suprisingly well dressed, if they could afford to be.

I wonder if there's an explanation beyond the standard merely having been different. It was different, but why? To a degree, I wonder if the fact that so many people had manual jobs, or came from families that had only recently been on the land, or had been less well off, caused people to aspire to appear to be comfortably off. Today, on the other hand, with things being somewhat easier, on average, for people, perhaps that emphasis is not there, or is even exaggerated in the opposite direction (hence the ripped up clothes you can buy ripped up right from the store.).

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

I think the average guy in 1936 didn't consider a suit and tie as being "dressed up," it was just his normal outfit.

My favorite hat movies are the ones that were shot back then, they depict what was current, not some art director's vision of what it was like.

Watch the final scene in "Gold Diggers of 1933" with the parade of the "Forgotten Men." Those guys were so authentic looking I wonder if they didn't get the real guys from the bread lines to play themselves.

 

[Mid-fogey]

I agree...

I think the average guy in 1936 didn't consider a suit and tie as being "dressed up," it was just his normal outfit.

...with Tony.

Take away automatic washing machines and driers, easy care fabrics, so many cars, super cheap clothes, climate control, etc. and what do you end up with? People dressing the way they used to pre-WWII. Cotton and knits lose their appeal when they are harder to clean, wear out fast, and cost nearly as much as clothes that actually will last.

 

[pistolpete]

Come on now.....

....the whole point of this site and the "Mag' is to celebrate style. People, even the everyday schmoe dressed to the best of his wallet. You didn't go out in public unless you looked your best. Seabiscuit is the best hat movie. Bang! Bang!

 

[J.T.Marcus]

Here's a great info site for hats used in SEABISCUIT.

http://www.baronhats.com/seabiscuitbth.htm

 

[RBH]

Heres the great site for THE MAN who has THE HAT used in Seabisquit.

http://www.vintagesilhouettes.com/

 

[KObalto]

I must say, I was in Montreal last week & it is doubtlessly the best dressed city I have ever seen. Almost everyone I saw was well dressed, the women? Elegant!

I totally agree about Montreal and the women. Fantastic!fftopic:

 

[Art Fawcett]

thanks for reposting that link JT, I'd forgotten how cleverly worded it was. Please note that it does not say that it made the hats for Howard or Smith. That's because I provided both. The Entepreneur is NOT an exact replica of the original hat as the specs are wrong. They DID provide the flocked background hats for the costumer so the second part is absolutely true.

 

[J.T.Marcus]

Art, Thanks for your response. Wow! Talk about somebody not giving credit where credit belongs. I'd like to remedy that. You did a great job! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[Pat_H]

Art, Thanks for your response. Wow! Talk about somebody not giving credit where credit belongs. I'd like to remedy that. You did a great job! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

Those are some seriously nice hats.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Thanks JT & Pat,
Here is where some clarity is needed lest anyone gets the wrong impression. The hats used in the film for the leads were vintage, I did not make them, just rented them to the film. Judianna was/is one of my favorite costumers and when doing the film, used my hats on the leads. the Howard hat is a Penny's Marathon from the 40's, and frankly, I don't remember what Smith's was. When getting the hats back and without knowing the story, word got out quickly that I had them and sold them, with the exception of the Howard hat ( I still have it). Only afer it came out did I realize what a hit it was and regretted selling off the other character hats. Such is life. I did make the Panama worn by the Howard character but it didn't come back in good shape so I scrapped it. uggg

 

[Pat_H]

...with Tony.

Take away automatic washing machines and driers, easy care fabrics, so many cars, super cheap clothes, climate control, etc. and what do you end up with? People dressing the way they used to pre-WWII. Cotton and knits lose their appeal when they are harder to clean, wear out fast, and cost nearly as much as clothes that actually will last.

Excellent points.

To add a bit to that, but from a different angle, contrary to the movies, the working clothes of 19th Century and early 20th Century cowhands were normally wool, rather than cotton. Today the opposite is true (raising cattle is one of my occupations, although I don't comment on the cowboy hat threads, that's actually my most often worn brimmed hat). I've often thought that the switch to Levis, and then Wranglers, came about due to the washing machine. They're great trousers if you can wash them frequently, but they wouldn't be if you couldn't.

 

[Pat_H]

I asked my parents this question when I was young. They were both depression-era children. In a time where you re-used, wore out, and repaired everything, people tended to care for their clothing. At that time, not only was conformity important, but your style of dress tended to say something about your station in life. People dressed to impress.

My dad made a very strong point that during the Depression, you had to be aggressive to get work. You "presented" yourself to a prospective employer. You dressed up to show that you would look and act sharp. Slovenly dress was indicative of a person who didn't care.

I heard from my tailor that the three-piece suit went out of vogue because manufacturers were trying to hold down prices. Casual Friday had a terrible economic impact on suit makers.

I was chastised once for being too casual for a presentation I had made. I was better dressed than the people in my seminar. I took notice of the comment though, and always show up in a suit and tie, even if the group is in sweats and flip-flops.

Also excellent points.

Perhaps it's a combination of things.

I have some photos take in about 1942-43 or so of my grandfather and his siblings. They varied enormously in age. My Grandfather would have been about 44 years old, or so, when they were taken, his youngest brother was about 24 and in the Army. His oldest brother must have been at least 55, or older.

Anyhow, this came on the occasion of some sort of family reunion. None of the men had been to college at any point, although several were businessmen. I suppose they all were in the middle class, and they were all from a rural background. They're all very well turned out, and wearing suits and hats. The oldest brother probably had the most flashy of the suits, with my Grandfather wearing a very conservative one. The degree of dress in it is almost shockingly high.

It makes me wonder, to an extent, if that era of men, who recently often had rural roots, and who had struggled against pretty stout economic odds, dressed up to a higher standard to separate themselves from their past, and to show they'd done all right. In contrast, while I also have a professional in town job, when I dress my best I still wouldn't be dressed up to the standard their exhibiting.

 

[Mid-fogey]

All good...

...points from Ecuador Jim and Pat H. I'll add another point. In a world before credit cards and picture IDs, people used appearance to decide if they'd rent you a hotel room, etc.

Now you can look like the biggest bum in the world and your picture ID and credit card will carry you through.