(For CXL Freaks Only) What's with Japan and Thick Leather?

[Vespizzare]

It seems like the second half of the phrase that starts 4.5 oz. leather usually consists of the words, for the Japanese market. So what's the connection? Why does the "japanese market" particularly crave leather jackets that weigh a ton and are like cardboard out of the box? Inquiring minds want to know. I suppose I could just ask Allen, but I thought I'd run it up the flagpole here and see who salutes.

 

[schitzo]

Short man syndrome?

 

[HDRnR]

Goes along with their denim.

 

[devilish]

They do like the whole heavy weight thing. Some of the leather soles they put on their already heavy work boots are simply ridiculous. I personally think they equate it to quality and it's partly to do with a perception that thicker materials require more skill to work with.

 

[IXL]

I believe that for many, it harkens back to the samurai, and to the heavy leather armor they wore.

 

[felix03]

I'm not Japanese, but my wife is and I've spent a lot of time there. So here's my opinion.

When it comes to clothes most people are into shape, pattern, and colour. More than anyone I've seen, the Japanese are into texture. I agree with devilish -- texture and weight are equated to quality.

I think another reason has to do with the slender Japanese build that lends itself well to layering and thicker weight clothing.

 

[technovox]

It seems like the second half of the phrase that starts 4.5 oz. leather usually consists of the words, for the Japanese market. So what's the connection? Why does the "japanese market" particularly crave leather jackets that weigh a ton and are like cardboard out of the box? Inquiring minds want to know. I suppose I could just ask Allen, but I thought I'd run it up the flagpole here and see who salutes.

I was over at Johnson Leathers yesterday, working out the final details on my new jacket, and basically I got into a discussion with Alan about the same thing. And it seems the Japanese, according to Alan, will typically request the CXL with more brown undertones. The more brown underneath the better. And then they go through excessive efforts to break the jackets in so they have just the right wear at the creases and pressure points.
Apparently, it's not just the Japanese, but there are more than a few Westerners who have also requested the heavier CXL from him. Even up to 5 oz plus.
I'm not sure there is any standard answer anyone could give. Maybe it's just preference for the way heavier leather drapes (or doesn't), breaks, and feels. It should be mentioned, and has been in other posts, that the CXL can be trimmed down to 3 oz or even 2.5 oz weight, if desired.

Personally, I found that although my 4 oz CXL was a beautiful jacket, for me it was far too heavy and stiff for normal everyday wear. It was a beast. And after six months of abusing it every way I could, the jacket still looked barely affected. (Perhaps if I was logging in Alberta during winter, or Spring touring the Swiss alps on a Ducati, it would be a different story.) And now that I feel I've experienced the heavier horsehides, and CXL, I find myself starting to lean towards the mid-weight horsehides, and softer more forgiving leathers.

 

[nick123]

Someone here has mentioned the term "teaism" or "teacore" in a past thread and some of the Real McCoy civilian jackets I've seen on Rakuten use those terms to describe the patina process in their description.
Along those lines (look at the definition of "Sabi" in particular):
http://mercury.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/nontech/wabisabi.html

 

[theundeadkennedy]

I was about to bring up Wabi Sabi myself. The concept was brought to my attention in the Crockett and Jones thread over at styleforum. Looking for books on the subject also led me to the book " In Praise of Shadows" which I think may apply to this subject as well.

 

[Edward]

I wonder how many people asking for the really heavy stuff are looking for a riding jacket? Heavier leathrr for better protection for those who don't want to wear modern Power Ranger stuff?

 

[Tadite]

In my experience they don't. Looking at Buzz Rickson, The Real McCoy's, or The Few, they do get a bit heavy on the wool jackets. 36-37 oz peacoats as an example but none of the leather jackets are at the extremes of weight. Now admittedly none are light they all seem to start at the mid's with 2.5 to 3.5 would be my guess depending on style. The only 4 oz+ I've seen on common leather jackets are either competition leather from Vanson or a whole bunch of items from Lost Worlds. Neither are Japanese (with the guy who owns Lost Worlds having a heartache at the idea).

That's not to say that a niche company isn't make something a bit extreme because of a fashion decision but I think as a normal customer base interested in heritage fashions the Japanese aren't bigger fans of a extreme heavy leather then anyone else.

 

[Bunyip]

I'm quite rookie, but I will say this..when I first set out looking for quality, non mall, not made in China stuff, my initial thoughts were that heavy and thick equals good quality...I know a bit more now, but I think that way thinking might be reasonably common. You can see on the boot threads that the Japanese guys put double and triple soles on and huge cuban heels etc. everything they do clothing wise is quite exaggerated and out of the box...not sure if this answers the question, but that's my initial opinion...I think status is a big thing there, and what they pay for Langlitz etc in their market, probably means that you might as well get bigger,thicker= better?

 

[Blackadder]

Someone here has mentioned the term "teaism" or "teacore" in a past thread and some of the Real McCoy civilian jackets I've seen on Rakuten use those terms to describe the patina process in their description.
Along those lines (look at the definition of "Sabi" in particular):
http://mercury.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/nontech/wabisabi.html

Yes, the Japanese are crazy about the teacore. If you look at their McCoy's Buco J-100, you can see that the teacore J-100 are often sold out but there are plenty of black core around. Also, the Japanese are trading heavily in second handed Red Wing PT91 with brown undertone as Red Wing do not make them anymore.

In my experience they don't. Looking at Buzz Rickson, The Real McCoy's, or The Few, they do get a bit heavy on the wool jackets. 36-37 oz peacoats as an example but none of the leather jackets are at the extremes of weight. Now admittedly none are light they all seem to start at the mid's with 2.5 to 3.5 would be my guess depending on style. The only 4 oz+ I've seen on common leather jackets are either competition leather from Vanson or a whole bunch of items from Lost Worlds. Neither are Japanese (with the guy who owns Lost Worlds having a heartache at the idea).

That's not to say that a niche company isn't make something a bit extreme because of a fashion decision but I think as a normal customer base interested in heritage fashions the Japanese aren't bigger fans of a extreme heavy leather then anyone else.

I agree that the Japanese are not particularly into heavy materials. Their Buco J-24 is much lighter than the Lost World J-23 and their McCoy's and Buzz A-2s are not that heavy. I also agree with you about the niche companies e.g. Rainbow Country do make their A-2s with FQHH. They are however particular about using the original materials for their repro clothings.
As for the boots, the McCoy's and Lone Wolf boots are nowhere near the weight of the White's and Wesco. In fact Lone Wolf boots are often made with soft and light leather which make them very easy to break-in (actually IMO, no break-in required).