Footwear to go with our jackets

[Imuricecreamman]

so the color get diluted again and absorbed deeper into the leather? or run off with the rain?
dye means the new color is absorbed? right?

A lot of the color seems to get absorbed into the leather giving it a much darker color which blends nicely with the original color. The rain and moisture seems to have taken the residual black color on the top.

 

[Marc mndt]

purely from your photo comparison, seems like with handwelting it can get closer partially more hidden under the upper perhaps? in some countries where wage is cheaper than investing in machinery, hand welting is just that.

I agree that from the previous photo comparison that seems to be the case. However, here's another closeup of a crockett and Jones machine welted shoe, pretty close to the upper.

Now these are all examples of dress shoes. Since dress shoes should be elegant one could argue that a higher stitch count or stitching closer to the upper would be preferable because it looks more elegant. Personally, on rugged boots which are essentially work wear, I don't see the need for these qualities. The machine welted construction is more than fine.

 

[Robbie79]

What is the difference between hand welted shoes and machine welted shoes? Is there a structural difference, or is it purely cosmetic? If I'm correct, hand welting allows for a higher stitch count. This is a closeup of an Edward Green boot which is handwelted using a pigs bristle: View attachment 249356

This is a crockett and Jones derby which is welted using a machine:
View attachment 249357
I can't see u huge difference to be honest.

Handwelted edward greens:
View attachment 249359

Machine welted church's View attachment 249360
In this case, the church have a lower stitch count than the EG'S.

Or am I totally wrong and has handwelting nothing to do with stitchcount per inch?

Not sure about the stitch count but manufacturing a hand welted shoe for sure takes much longer than making a machine welted shoe and quality and longevity of a shoe depends on quality of materials used and skills of the artisan.

 

[Harris HTM]

What is the difference between hand welted shoes and machine welted shoes? Is there a structural difference, or is it purely cosmetic? If I'm correct, hand welting allows for a higher stitch count. This is a closeup of an Edward Green boot which is handwelted using a pigs bristle: View attachment 249356

This is a crockett and Jones derby which is welted using a machine:
View attachment 249357
I can't see u huge difference to be honest.

Handwelted edward greens:
View attachment 249359

Machine welted church's View attachment 249360
In this case, the church have a lower stitch count than the EG'S.

Or am I totally wrong and has handwelting nothing to do with stitchcount per inch?

https://www.misiuacademy.com/methods-of-shoe-construction/

 

[Marc mndt]

https://www.misiuacademy.com/methods-of-shoe-construction/

Thnx, now we know So a handwelted shoe is basically identical in construction to a machine made Goodyear welted shoe. Only difference is that its done by hand which allows for more precision.

 

[Bfd70]

^thanks. Informative.
Sounds like the mystery is solved.

 

[red devil]

https://www.misiuacademy.com/methods-of-shoe-construction/

It seems pretty accurate, I remember showing pictures to a professional and he could immediately tell if it was hand welted or not. It seems indeed to be an aesthetic consideration that is clearly visible if you know what you are looking for.

Good ressource to read through, thanks!

 

[Harris HTM]

It seems pretty accurate, I remember showing pictures to a professional and he could immediately tell if it was hand welted or not. It seems indeed to be an aesthetic consideration that is clearly visible if you know what you are looking for.

Good ressource to read through, thanks!

Yep, this blog is really interesting for shoe enthusiasts.

 

[Marc mndt]

Not sure about the stitch count but manufacturing a hand welted shoe for sure takes much longer than making a machine welted shoe and quality and longevity of a shoe depends on quality of materials used and skills of the artisan.

I agree that for high end shoes/boots, quality of materials used and skill of the artisan is probably higher. However, i don't think it makes any difference in terms of longevity. Even though handmade, I do 't think a Rolls-Royce is more durable than a Mercedes Benz. Now back.to shoes Beyond a certain level, You're also paying for materials which are waisted: if you only use parts of a hide which are 100% flawless, you can only manage to cut the leather needed to make one pair of shoes from 1 hide, instead of two pairs if your would accept minor flaws.

 

[red devil]

I agree that for high end shoes/boots, quality of materials used and skill of the artisan is probably higher. However, i don't think it makes any difference in terms of longevity. Even though handmade, I do 't think a Rolls-Royce is more durable than a Mercedes Benz. Now back.to shoes Beyond a certain level, You're also paying for materials which are waisted: if you only use parts of a hide which are 100% flawless, you can only manage to cut the leather needed to make one pair of shoes from 1 hide, instead of two pairs if your would accept minor flaws.

That I think is a difference between mid tier and high tier shoes?

 

[Mich486]

I’m no expert but I see zero advantage from a longevity point of view in handwelting vs machine welting. I also can’t see any visual difference if I have to be honest. It’s just one of those things I don’t care enough to pay more for (clearly a manual process is more labour intensive).

 

[Harris HTM]

What is the difference between hand welted shoes and machine welted shoes? Is there a structural difference, or is it purely cosmetic? If I'm correct, hand welting allows for a higher stitch count. This is a closeup of an Edward Green boot which is handwelted using a pigs bristle: View attachment 249356

This is a crockett and Jones derby which is welted using a machine:
View attachment 249357
I can't see u huge difference to be honest.

Handwelted edward greens:
View attachment 249359

Machine welted church's View attachment 249360
In this case, the church have a lower stitch count than the EG'S.

Or am I totally wrong and has handwelting nothing to do with stitchcount per inch?

Marc are you sure that Edward Greens are hadn welted (ignore their price)? I've read in many sources they are goodyear welted and the only video I found seems to prove it (around 2.12)

Maybe some more expensive lines? Though if their goodyear welted ones cost that much I dare not think the price of hand welted.

 

[Marc mndt]

I’m no expert but I see zero advantage from a longevity point of view in handwelting vs machine welting. I also can’t see any visual difference if I have to be honest. It’s just one of those things I don’t care enough to pay more for (clearly a manual process is more labour intensive).

At the time I bought these shoes, I just liked the idea of having something handmade. I just had to try it, thinking they would have some magic qualities to them. Now I know. Yes they are great shoes and I've found out that the 82 last fits perfectly, almost like it's bespoke. But does it justify two times the price? I would say no.

 

[Marc mndt]

Marc are you sure that Edward Greens are hadn welted (ignore their price)? I've read in many sources they are goodyear welted and the only video I found seems to prove it (around 2.12)

Maybe some more expensive lines? Though if their goodyear welted ones cost that much I dare not think the price of hand welted.

You could be right. At 2:16 you can see they handclose the upper, using a pigs bristle. At 4:19 you can see they machine stitch the welt.

 

[Harris HTM]

You could be right. At 2:16 you can see they handclose the upper, using a pigs bristle. At 4:19 you can see they machine stitch the welt.

Yes, I meant 4.12, excuses!
Obviously they are good year welted, otherwise they'd advertise the hand welt in theri website.

 

[Marc mndt]

Yes, I meant 4.12, excuses!
Obviously they are good year welted, otherwise they'd advertise the hand welt in theri website.

According the guide you shared, handwelt is the same as Goodyear welt, only done by hand:
"There is not much to say about Hand Welting, because it is essentially the same technique like Goodyear. As the name implies, the main difference is that after lasting the shoe, the welting is done by hand instead of machine."

So Goodyear welting can be done by machine or hand.

 

[Marc mndt]

@Harris HTM i think in this discussion we've lost every jacket aficionado by now hehe.

 

[Harris HTM]

@Harris HTM i think in this discussion we've lost every jacket aficionado by now hehe.

yep, I stop!

 

[Downunder G Man]

Thank goodness, And it's "wasted" not "waisted". My turn to be the forum police

 

[red devil]

yep, I stop!

Please don't lol

I started this thread for info on footwear to go with the jackets sure, but still info on footwear. It is really interesting