Flying boots

[Windsock]

Love the Escapers Paddy, many times i've almost bought a pair of escape boots, or a pair of 41 pattern but haven't snagged either yet. All I wanted was a decent pair of '36's that would fit, but the first ones I got were famous and small, the second were large so they fit but were delicate, the third were solid but small and the fourth were rare and too small. I have decided to stop now.

Boots are a frustration because you really can't wear these old things unlike an original jacket and they don't display like headgear- a bit like feet- they get left out of things a bit. However as Tim says the '36 pattern is the epitomy of cool, worn with either with long or short pants.

This is a pair which intrigues me because they are exactly the same pattern as the AM types except for the direction of the straps (these point up) and the lack of labeling. Not 100% certain that they are war era but they are old and the details match.

This pair is in the best nic of the lot and have seen service over the last two years masquerading as Santas boots. They were found beside the Christmas tree with "Snow" (bicarb) on them Christmas before last. The story went that the big guy must have removed them when he came through the door (we don't have a chimney) and left in such a hurry that he left them here. this Christmas we left them out for him (cleaned) for him to collect and he left a note beside them saying that he had loads of them and that we could keep them. What a guy- at least i'm now permitted to leave them out on display.

This pair has stitching around the edge of the buckle straps and the leather has an almost goatskin pebble in some places.

 

[Smithy]

I love that first photo, the famous press shot of 1 Squadron taken at Neuville and originally published in an article by Noel Monks. Also you'll be interested to know (if you don't already) Andrew that the 2nd chap from the left is the Aussie, Leslie Clisby and he is wearing his original (and very battered) darker RAAF SD.

 

[Windsock]

Tim I didn't know that, thanks for pointing him out and of course you would know. I took the photo from the original "Fighter Pilot"- I've had this shot of leslie scanned in my pc for a while- should really be in the Irvin thread it is so descriptive.

I forgot to post these in with the last post. Inside Santas pair.

 

[Windsock]

Btw Spitfire, fftopic: you missed out big time yesterday evening. The lecture by Derek Carter on the Shell House raid in Copenhagen 21 March 1945 was extremely good.

Is this a common thing by Derek? What kind of event was it?

 

[Smithy]

Leslie's a bit of an interest of mine as I think you know. Not shouting anything out but I am working on an article (might turn out longer especially with moving to Oz) on him.

By all accounts Leslie was rather attached to his Aussie SD, Noel Monks in his book about 1 and 73 Sqns in France "Fighter Squadrons", makes mention of this, even trying to repair and clean it up a bit whilst Les was having a bath at Monks's hotel (Monks had an open policy for 1 and 73 pilots being able to use his bathroom anytime of day or night).

Clisby is a fascinating character, very similar to Cobber Kain, who obviously is far better known.

 

[Windsock]

This pair fit me as they are a size 12- quite big. They are labelled with the KC so are definitely the real deal plus they are named to a "Baxter" of the RAF. Anyone able to shed any light on him? They are suffering a little loss of wool but are otherwise good. If only those soles could talk- did they kick any rudder pedals and if so what kind?

The difference I have noticed in doing this comparison is that the Australian made types are much more narrow in the leg- possibly as they not intended to be worn with long trousers? The RAF types have a definite wider flare toward the top.

 

[Smithy]

"Baxter" of the RAF.

There seems to be a service number, I'll have a look in my things...


EDIT: Just had a look in my line of things, and he's not from Fighter Command during the Battles of France or Britain.

 

[fishmeok]

I wish Aero would have them made with a long vamp like the originals...

This would make all the difference as an accurate reproduction and I would at least expect this for 190GBP.

Alan

Pardon my French, but what's a "long vamp"?
Cheers
Mark

 

[Windsock]

Was the brown color a spec or just something that certain manufacturers made?

Sorry mark, I don't know. I trawled this up from "WWIIReenacting.co.uk Forums". it's litterally lifted from the site and not substantiated so .........

"The brown 1936-pattern boots were contract made for USAAF aircrew in the Pacific theatre. USAAF crews were also issued Irvin jackets and RAF-pattern helmets until such time as stocks of US pattern kit could be built up."

and

"I've never seen a pair of RAF issued brown 1936 pattern flying boots. Since most period photos are B&W, it's difficult to determine whether any brown boots are mixed in with the black. I suspect not.

My friend has 6 or 7 pairs of the brown Bedggood boots. All were from aircrew serving in the Pacific theater.

I would venture that there are probably some UK-made brown boots floating around that were also produced for USAAF use. To date, I've not seen any but would feel confident that there are probably some out there.

I have seen brown versions of the 1943 pattern boot. These are very bizarre looking and I've often wondered if these were being evaluated for issue to USAAF crews?

IMO, it's probably extremely unlikely that Commonwealth aircrew wore brown 1936 pattern boots. At least not in Europe. This is just my opinion."

This sounds like a comment made by the Owner of the RAF and Comm re-enacting site ages ago although it could well be someone else. This particular fellow knows his stuff (although I sincerely doubt and have never seen any evidence of any Irvin issued to any aircrew in the SWPA).

I got this pair from the States.

 

[Windsock]

Pardon my French, but what's a "long vamp"?
Cheers
Mark

Must admit I did ask myself the same question

http://www.affordablewesternwear.com/newsdesk_info.php/newsPath/24/newsdesk_id/44

 

[Windsock]

There seems to be a service number, I'll have a look in my things...


EDIT: Just had a look in my line of things, and he's not from Fighter Command during the Battles of France or Britain.

Thanks Tim, I think i'd also checked that at some time in the past-wouldn't that be a find- bugger!!

Look forward to seeing the results of your research sometime.

 

[Spitfire]

Not that I am an expert on "long vamps" but if you look at the Aero boots I posted (and looks like the ones that Paddy posted too) and compare the "tounge" that goes up in front of the boots - from the foot - with the original ones.
The aero "tounge" or "vamp" is shorter and slightly more round.

Am I right????[huh]

 

[Spitfire]

Quite forgot in my last post - got carried away with the "long vamps":
What a amazing collection, Windsock. Thanks for taking the trouble to photo and post them!:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[Alan Eardley]

Not that I am an expert on "long vamps" but if you look at the Aero boots I posted (and looks like the ones that Paddy posted too) and compare the "tounge" that goes up in front of the boots - from the foot - with the original ones.
The aero "tounge" or "vamp" is shorter and slightly more round.

Am I right????[huh]

That's the vamp - the part of the upper that covers the instep. Originals had a long vamp with corners. Aero's maker uses a short, rounded vamp.

Alan

 

[Spitfire]

Somebody should to tell Aero.
Doesn't sound more complicated - or expensive - to produce, than the rounded one.
As far as I know, they are - for the time being - the only ones producing 1936 pattern boots. So why not do them 100% right?

 

[Alan Eardley]

Somebody should to tell Aero.
Doesn't sound more complicated - or expensive - to produce, than the rounded one.
As far as I know, they are - for the time being - the only ones producing 1936 pattern boots. So why not do them 100% right?

My sentiments entirely. I've just done a paper 'development' (made a flat pattern from the front of my shoe) and it appears to show that the 'long' version would need a little more leather. The clicking would be no more difficult, I'm sure. I think it's just a matter of attention to detail.

Alan

 

[Spitfire]

Well, I have just send them an e-mail asking the question.
I will keep you posted when the answere comes.

 

[Speedster]

Is this a common thing by Derek? What kind of event was it?

It was an arrangement arranged by Dansk Veteranbil Klub (Danish Vintage Car Club) of which i'm a member.

I do not know if Derek Carter is known in flying circles outside Denmark but he is an Englishman (b. 1951) living in Denmark since 1974 (met a danish girl etc...).

One of his uncles worked on building the Mosquitos and another of his uncles flew them, so he was bitten by the bug already as a child. After moving to Denmark he saw a BBC documentary on the Shell House Raid and since then he has been researching this. So he knows quite a lot on the Mosquitos and the attack on the Gestapo HQ in Copenhagen.

A little on the attack here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1367454/posts

http://www.milhist.dk/besattelsen/shell/shell.html

http://www.mossie.org/forum/read.php?1,2174,2174#msg-2174

 

[Windsock]

Thanks for that, I know of Derek.

Interesting stuff.

 

[Smithy]

Andrew those boots of yours that belonged to a Kiwi Mossie pilot, was he 487 by any chance?