Flipping jackets and the spirit of the lounge

[ton312]

Just a question (and I hope the answer(s are) is yes), did the person so accused have a chance to quietly / privately defend themselves before being run naked through the town?

Yes, absolutely.

 

[ton312]

In

Since I've nothing to add that I haven't already said, here's an interesting thing that I have learned throughout my dealings on TFL.

90% of all of my transactions were with people with few to zero posts. All very nice people, great to deal with, perfect transactions, etc. but vast majority were a non-contributing members of the forum - Something I have absolutely no issues with but what I'm genuinely curious to hear is how does everyone feel about this?
Does being a registered member of TFL automatically grants one immunity from mark-ups?

Of course I'm going to be perfectly honest re. all of my sales with any of the guys that I know & talk to, there's no debate there and I believe every one of us should be up-front about it. Literally all of you who know me can testify I've always told you what I've paid for whatever item you've shown interest in & warned you whenever I had listed it to make a profit.

But ten of us debating stuff here... We just don't buy anything. So what we're left with is randos, same as on eBay, Grailed, etc. So where does that leave us?

Good point. I wouldn't say my ratio is nearly that high....maybe 20-30% non-contributing. I do buy here, have many times over and will continue to do so. I guess when I price my stuff, I don't have the intent to make any money, regardless of who buys it. I just don't want to lose any. Unlike a new jacket that loses about half as soon as it leaves the rack, used stuff tightens that margin up and one could reasonably expect to re-coop all, or nearly all, their investment.

That said if I buy an item off here or off ebay and the listing is old, many views, reposted and a million bumps....you will lose money if you attempt to flip or just pass along. If you immediately list an item you won on ebay, you will lose money. That is why the LW wasn't immediately posted back to ebay...it would've been unlikely to pull the second highest bid. Very unlikely.

The good deal, barn find etc, is extremely, extremely rare. It happens, but not often. So if you think you can pull huge gains like what we saw attempted in the classifieds, likely not going to happen. I suspect that jacket would have sold in an day or less if priced around $700-$800 and the OP would've made out just fine.

 

[Boyo]

The for sale thread is locked, but I think Tony wrapped it up perfectly ( certainly for me) in his last post there.

a few weeks ago this jacket sold on ebay for just under $600 ( i think i may have even bid on it ) setting what i would consider to be the market price for it. If the OP relisted it on ebay would he get near his current asking price? history says no.
why list it here for $900 more?
I first saw the relisted jacket for sale on the Iron Heart forum.. I didn't recognize it then, but I saw the price and thought no way.
In the end my final thought is that the OP didnt really do anything wrong, he took a shot, was called out on it and now there isnt a chance he sells it on TFL.

 

[tek8080]

Wow, this has been a very interesting thread to read. I love seeing all the different takes on this.

I see that particular thread we're discussing was locked. The Freewheelers jacket that I used to link the FL account to the eBay account was just one example of many many of the same jackets he had posted here that also had corresponding seller or buyer feedback on the eBay account. Also, that eBay account has since changed its display name from what it was last night. And I know he saw my post in his thread last night because it showed his account was viewing that thread. It then showed him managing account details and it looks like he's turned off showing current activity, last seen, and other privacy data. It will be interesting if he just lurks now, or if he begins posting again as if nothing happened. It doesn't matter to me, as this was never anything personal against the guy. When I saw that ridiculous diatribe he posted trying to guilt everyone here I just felt compelled to provide more proof. The gall it takes to post something like that when he knew he was the buyer all along... Truly astounding.

Anyway, that thread is locked and I don't want to get this one locked as well because this is a great conversation so far.

 

[Marc mndt]

Does being a registered member of TFL automatically grants one immunity from mark-ups?

No. There's nothing wrong with making a small profit by flipping jackets here I'd say. Especially considering the time and effort (and risk) it takes to find and buy a nice reasonably priced used jacket.

Before listing a jacket here I clean it, fix broken seams, condition the leather, replace snaps, etc. I also put in time and effort to take high quality pics and measurements, making sure the listing accurately reflects the condition of the jacket. The results being that whoever buys a jacket here from me knows exactly what he's getting.

I usually make between €50 and €100 profit on jackets I flip here. Which by no means covers the time and effort I put into it. Why bother then? Because I enjoy the process.

Some examples :

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...5-amazing-patina-size-46.109059/#post-2952855

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/fs-vanson-maverick-size-46-like-new.107816/

Good point. I wouldn't say my ratio is nearly that high....maybe 20-30% non-contributing

Whenever Tony uploads a classifieds I'm on the Edge of my seat, ready to grab my wallet lol.

 

[Tom71]

A very interesting read!

I have never given this a single thought, and now I am asking myself wether or not I have actually been a bit naive.
The limited occasions I have bought from fellow members, I have paid without negotiating as I thought the price was ok. Had it been different, I would not have offered at all.
On the other hand, I have never sold at a profit, nor have I tried to.

I am here for the jackets. Not for a “good deal” as a buyer or seller.

 

[Marc mndt]

I have never given this a single thought, and now I am asking myself wether or not I have actually been a bit naive.
The limited occasions I have bought from fellow members, I have paid without negotiating as I thought the price was ok.

Just to set the record straight, I sold that Thedi to you for exactly what I paid for it

 

[JMax]

Just to set the record straight, I sold that Thedi to you for exactly what I paid for it

Haha. Now we all have to be mindful, what with Tek the Cyber Ninja unleashed.

 

[jacketjunkie]

There‘s nothing wrong with flipping in general. You want to run a side hustle making some money on the side buying and selling and committing some tax fraud along the way? Be my guest.

This forum, however, is not ebay. It is a small community, small market place, no fees, payment by family and friends etc and it is not in the spirit of this community to pray on the less experienced and try to dump stuff on them at 2-3x their market value and setting up said buyers for a potential loss of high three or even four digits. You try and do that, you get called out for it. It’s a small place, people are watching. Don‘t like that? Sell on ebay, with all their fees, bullshit returns and what not. Cherrypicking the advantages of this place but dismissing the other side of the coin, I don‘t think so.

Again, because I think this gets mixed up in the debate: It is just fine to make some money out of a deal, just be reasonable about it just as you better be reasonable in your overall behaviour in this Lounge. And said seller who kicked off this debate was neither reasonable in his pricing nor in the way he reacted when confronted about it. He was dishonest and praying on the gullible and people took offence. Noone likes being treated like a dimwit.

 

[AeroFan_07]

Interesting discussion indeed here.

I have a personal example of being a bit "burned" and it came - suprise suprise, from a newcomer who joined this forum only for the intention of selling a jacket. My jacket to be specific. He only posted 2 times - and those would be in this thread:
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...rown-size-40-fits-like-44.99715/#post-2653667

It was more than an interesting "sale". The person actually had it listed for sale here before he even recieved the jacket or un-boxed it. So, this kind of thing isn't cool with me.

I have bought & sold plenty of jackets over the years, I would even say too many. However yes, I agree with what has been said here, that this forum is a smaller network where most of us know each other (if we post in the Outerwear forum) so I do not try to "make" money here. I have sold a couple jackets through ebay at a profit, but generally speaking it's a break-even of small loss overall if done through FL. I am also a poor salesman in general and have rarely sold much at a profit in life.

Which is one reason why when people ask how much I will take off a jacket I list here, my response is generally - I am already at the "best price".

 

[tek8080]

Haha. Now we all have to be mindful, what with Tek the Cyber Ninja unleashed.

Haha, hey that second post was not something I actually wanted to do. I swear to it. His message that I responded to was just so ridiculous that I felt like I had to clear my name by removing any doubt that he way the buyer.

If anything for the rest of us, this should act as a reminder to be safe and cautious online. I actually purposely did not include screenshots of any data because his eBay display name was his actual name/real life identity before he changed it after seeing my post. And a quick search of the name revealed lots of personal information, including employment and work contact information. Using your real name on eBay is just astronomically stupid in my book. That eradicates one of the main advantages of using a broker platform like eBay... You both get to remain anonymous. Now I would NEVER ever reveal who this guy is, or EVER attempt to make contact with him outside of this forum. As far as I am concerned, I have already forgotten the information. I hope we never interact again. And my point was already made. If he comes back tomorrow and posts things in the classifieds, I am certainly not going to start all this again.

And seriously guys, please be careful who you transact with on here. That could be a thread topic all its own, but I'd be too afraid that nobody would use the classifieds anymore. I have bought several jackets from lounge members so my own identity is known by a handful of you... Or did I use a proxy delivery service? I'm never telling!

 

[Marc mndt]

Here's another one that has gone up in value, I see a pattern

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...seph-buegeleisen-co-jacket-in-size-44.109841/

Maybe I should store some of my jackets with him, pick them up half a year later they'll have risen in value.

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

Struggling with this one. I think I may change my answer alot depending on the circumstances. For instance. If someone is purely buying the jacket to flip it and they're doing it over and over again, essentially taking jackets off the market to create some sort of monopoly, then I'd be against this. If someone is buying a jacket, tries it on, doesn't like it, maybe does some clean up, fixes, etc. and adds some extra to it to cover shipping/time/whatever, I got no problem with that.

Being this is an "informed" crowd, I doubt someone is getting some sort of sleeper jacket that no one knew the true value. What I think happens more times than not is just a matter of timing. Certain brands, styles, etc. get hot around here and those tend to move quicker as a sort of frenzy develops. There could also be a dry spell of certain things or just an over supply. And those sit around and the price drops. All this is economics 101.

My straight zip Cal I bought on here, the TFLer picked it up for peanuts at a thrift shop. Didn't even realize what he had until people here confirmed it. I paid probably 7 or 8x what he bought it for. TBH, I have no issues with it. I didn't expect him to sell it for the thrift store price. I guess you could make an argument that the "community" made him realize what he had and therefore he should have been less aggressive with the price. IDK, I could flip a coin on this one and be wrong or right in either case LOL.

Bottom line, other than maybe at best covering my shipping costs over the price from the first transaction, I'm pretty sure I typically lose $50-200 bucks on anything I've bought and resold. I'd say that's happened at least 10-15 times. I think the people who are trying to do this as a side hustle are going to get burned more than they make a few bucks here and there. Again, unless they are very quick fingered and buying everything up or at least the jackets that have some potential for upside when the timing is good, most jackets seem to be fairly priced give or take 10%.

The other scenario I'd comment on is people buying jackets here and then flipping them on Ebay. Now obviously this is a more dangerous game because of the fees and need more higher pricing. Fundamentally I'd be against this as I like to see the jackets stay in the TFL community. But if said person honestly tried to sell the jacket here and there's no takers and he gets a higher price somewhere else, it's a little hard to cast judgement on that. Again the circumstances, frequency and just overall intent would get a different answer from me.

Bottom line, I think it's one of those you know it when you see it kind of things. I'd say generally speaking the more extreme cases are breaking the spirit. Someone adding like $50-100 to what they paid to hopefully cover shipping and leave room for negotiating, I have no problem with that, even if they doing it 1000 times.

 

[El Marro]

Certain brands, styles, etc. get hot around here and those tend to move quicker as a sort of frenzy develops. There could also be a dry spell of certain things or just an over supply. And those sit around and the price drops. All this is economics 101.

This is very true. I remember when I first saw the Left Field x Vanson Commando I just didn’t like it. For months and months I had a chance to buy that jacket any time I wanted on their website and I passed.
It wasn’t until a year or so later then I woke up one day with the knowledge that I needed that jacket, like right now! Of course by then they were sold out and Left Field did not have any plans for another run. I put a WTB up here in the classifieds and I would have paid well over the original retail price if anyone had one to offer.

 

[Kunja]

Coming in late on this but have glanced through most of it. Apologies to those who have been offended by my pricing, the classifieds are a marketplace and often I am selling one thing to buy another. Most of the time I do pass on the deal, sometimes I do mark up some. And sometimes I have given away. I often price with shipping and some haggling room in mind, but I am always open to bargaining. In this case, I've lowered the price on the RL coat to match what I paid, I agree that is fair and I didn't really realize the difference was as large as it was. I do not wish to gouge the community here, I value this marketplace and have had exchanges with most all of you by now.

The Buco referenced above is another story though. Yes its more than I paid, its priced very near where I personally value it. I'm happy to keep it, but it will really just be on the rack like a trophy and that is a waste. Like the RL Barnstormer its ultimately not a style that really suits me. But I am not in a hurry to liquidate it, its like owning a rare old pickup truck, or a piece of artwork, a one of a kind.

 

[58panheadfan]

... The Buco referenced above is another story though. Yes its more than I paid, its priced very near where I personally value it. I'm happy to keep it, but it will really just be on the rack like a trophy and that is a waste. Like the RL Barnstormer its ultimately not a style that really suits me. But I am not in a hurry to liquidate it, its like owning a rare old pickup truck, or a piece of artwork, a one of a kind.

You are absolutely right with your price estimate. I passed the jacket on at the price I paid, but without considering the time-consuming lining made with fine materials. If I had done that, I would have been priced at what you are asking for the jacket today. As I said before, everyone is free to ask how much, it's a free market and if a potential buyer wants the jacket, then the asking price just has to be right for him, regardless of how much the jacket previously changed hands.

 

[Kunja]

Reflecting on what I wrote above, Ive decided that my price for the Buco should reflect closer to what I paid, as without this forum and market I would not have had the chance to own it in the first place. What is a waste is me hoarding it away becuae of some $$$. Time to pass on the trophy to someone else. Newly priced accordingly.

 

[ton312]

Reflecting on what I wrote above, Ive decided that my price for the Buco should reflect closer to what I paid, as without this forum and market I would not have had the chance to own it in the first place. What is a waste is me hoarding it away becuae of some $$$. Time to pass on the trophy to someone else. Newly priced accordingly.

Good man

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

Reflecting on what I wrote above, Ive decided that my price for the Buco should reflect closer to what I paid, as without this forum and market I would not have had the chance to own it in the first place. What is a waste is me hoarding it away becuae of some $$$. Time to pass on the trophy to someone else. Newly priced accordingly.

Much respect @Kunja.
Not many, i feel, would have responded with such respect and grace as you have.
I find this very refreshing and admire your humbleness.
B

 

[AeroFan_07]

I have bought & sold with Kunja.
He is a stand-up guy, always was honest & straightforward with me.