Flip flops in the white house.

[Michael D]

Who knows, maybe 60 years from now someone will be paying $500 for my "flip-flops" like I would a pair of 40's slingbacks- nothing wrong with that

I don't think so.

Guess what`? Sixty years ago they wore 'flip flops' too but they were called "thongs" and I bet you've never seen 60 year-old flip flops for sale on ebay, have you.

Mike

 

[Feraud]

I think sometimes you see a "comfort backlast" that happens when people in a particular culture/society wear "fashionable" things that are downright uncomfortable.

Good points made.

The thing that is great about today's society are our choices. Men do not have to wear a fedora about town and ladies are not looked upon as "undressed" if their heads or hands are not covered. I think this is wonderful because it tells you exactly who is taking the time and energy to present themself in a particular way. I really respect the Fedora Loungers because the choice to be well dressed(and well behaved) is a choice and not because one faces legal chastisement or social banishment. This is indicative of how the citizens of society feel about themselves and their environment. Ours is unlike a country where a woman can be physically assaulted if her face and hair are uncovered in public.

I believe people need to be taught what is and is not appropriate in dress, behavior, language, etc. No one is born knowing how to behave. Our parents, extended families, and society teach(or should teach) us.

There are things said to me that these girls were meeting the President of the U.S. and they did not dress in a respectful way. I am also dismayed that the White House let them appear before the President with flip-flops.

Heck, I know restaurants that require a tie for men to enter and eat at their establishment. Why would the White House lower their standards and set an unseemly precedent?...

Medical necessity aside, there is nothing wrong with following common sense and good manners.

o.k., o.k., I am steppin' off the soapbox already! :clap :clap

 

[FlapperRen]

I think you people are very closed minded and do not want to accept that really there was NOTHING wrong with these girls wearing flip flops to the white house. I am appalled at your haughty behavior as if you have never done, said, or god forbid worn anything questionable. In Japan it has always been high fashion to wear Zori, a flip flop of some sorts of which our's are based upon. Would you put them down for wearing Zori to meet the president? I should hope not! In my mind you are hypocritical and very trivial. I'm ashamed of your lack of knowledge. This is not 1942 as much as you wish it would be. For you all to incenuate that a person who wears these sandals anywhere away from the beach or a car wash is in so many words ignorant is only showing ignorance yourselves. I don't expect this message to get through to you, but perhaps you all have judged harshly. I think I'll just slip in to my hepburnesque slacks and have a cigar now....how uncivilized!

 

[Johnnysan]

My wife always comments on the number of people that come into the store wearing fuzzy house slippers and pajamas. I just don't understand how people can think that's acceptable.

Right on, Brad! I'm seeing more and more of this around me and I feel like I'm living in the middle of a very large trailer park! As for flip-flops, they drive me nuts too - especially when worn to the office. Back when I was a kid, we called them "shower shoes." Just another example of the dumbing down of WalMart Nation.

 

[Feraud]

I think you people are very closed minded and do not want to accept that really there was NOTHING wrong with these girls wearing flip flops to the white house. I am appalled at your haughty behavior as if you have never done, said, or god forbid worn anything questionable. In Japan it has always been high fashion to wear Zori, a flip flop of some sorts of which our's are based upon. Would you put them down for wearing Zori to meet the president? I should hope not! In my mind you are hypocritical and very trivial. I'm ashamed of your lack of knowledge. This is not 1942 as much as you wish it would be. For you all to incenuate that a person who wears these sandals anywhere away from the beach or a car wash is in so many words ignorant is only showing ignorance yourselves. I don't expect this message to get through to you, but perhaps you all have judged harshly. I think I'll just slip in to my hepburnesque slacks and have a cigar now....how uncivilized!

FlapperRen, all cultural differences aside, I think these girls are not being judged harshly. Consider this, how would you feel if you went to meet the President of the U.S. and he met you in a bathrobe and slippers? That is not too far fetched is it? Or if Mrs. Bush bent over and we could all see she was wearing a thong? Is that inappropriate behavior? How would you judge them? Btw, this whole idea that "judging" someone as a terrible thing fascinates me. We all do it in our own way, but pretend not to. How do we improve if not by judgement? Fascinating...

Come on now, let us skip this pretense that anyone who deems this behavior as inappropriate is 'closed minded' or 'haughty'! As was pointed out more than once in this thread, the common consensus around here is there is a time and place for flip-flops, thongs, low cut pants, etc. Any adult should tell you that that time is never when anyone is meeting a head of country! The Japan can wear flip-flops, the Native American can wear feathered headdresses. That is their culture. Were any of those girls Japanese? Do they have existing foot conditions that require orthopedic flip-flops? Do not make excuses for their bad breeding!

So far, I have read absolutely no valid arguement put forth by anyone as to why it could be acceptable to meet a President wearing flip-flops! I am not the most ardent supporter of Mr. Bush but I would have the common decency to appear before him dressed appropriately.

I apologize if I sound harsh. I am neither haughty, harsh, nor better than anyone else.

However, if one is going to dress the fool they can expect to be treated like one.

 

[BD Jones]

I think the point is that the “flip-flop defenders� are missing, is that there is a time and a place to where certain attire. Meeting the President when he is honoring you in a formal setting for your accomplishments is not the time or place to wear flip-flops. Running to the convenience store to buy a bag of chips maybe, but not when you are meeting the leader of the country. It comes down to degrees of formality and respect for those around you.

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

I don't think there is anything inherently offensive about the flip-flop (on women) but it is indeed a matter of proper attire. For example, most conservative womens business shoes today would be considered completely inappropriate by the standards of the Victorian era.

Perhaps in the future flip-flops will be seen as a normal conservative shoe but today is not that day. Thus wearing them in a very formal situation is simply inappropriate.

 

[K.D. Lightner]

If young gals are wearing flip-flops to weddings, then it seems to me it has become a somewhat "formal" style. I could see the young gals believing that, if it is something you wear to a wedding or a prom, it is also appropriate in visiting the white house.

It is a style that may be crossing over, much as we may think of them as beach attire and, I have to agree with FlapperRen, if the young women thought of the shoes as acceptable to wear, then, they did. And so what?

I wish you folks would not put images in my head -- I am now trying to shake the image the first lady in a thong.

There are plenty of teens out there who would see us as old fogies....

karol

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

Weddings today are often a haven for the most outragious, horrifying styles known to man so I wouldn't be to sure that they should set the standard for what constitutes "proper" attire.

I would say what would come closest is the clothing and level of dress required for high-level job interview at a conservative firm. I would say such a standard would be the same for interacting with the President.

 

[Biltmore Bob]

I am close minded and judgmental, thank you very much...

I intend to remain close minded and jugmental. I'm sure a Japanese delegation would have been "groomed" by diplomats before they were allowed to meet a foriegn dignitary like the Pre. of the US. Their flips are considered appropriate footwear with a certain traditional form of dress, I'm sure. And, they wear a kind of sock with a big toe, so really their feet are covered.

Flapper, darling, you are really comparing the proverbial apples to oranges. You see, my dear, people do different things in other contries. I would never dress like a Japanese when and if I ever meet the leader of the free world. Nor would I dress like a Rap Gangster if I ever have the chance to meet the Prime Minister (or whatever) of Japan.

 

[Matt Deckard]

 

[FlapperRen]

I guess I am just speaking from my age group's view point. I am but 21 years old- I suppose that makes me young in age, yes, perhaps a bit naive, I agree; but I am also up on fashion. I love fashion of all kinds and that is only why I defend these young women. It is common place nowadays- there are lots of things (or items of clothing) that I don't deem respectful, but I also don't put the president in a bath robe in the same category as these fully dressed beautiful ladies. My point- if flip flops are all we have to worry about on young women? let it be. hehe, ok, I'll take a breath now lol

 

[Biltmore Bob]

At least the skirts are long enough.

 

[K.D. Lightner]

If people could only visit the white house dressed in the clothing fashion expected for a high-level job at a conservative firm, very few people I know would ever be able to do so. Those clothes cost big bucks!

My friend who works on Wall Street dresses to the nines: his Brooks Brothers suits cost $1500, his briefcase , $700, his coat jacket at least that much, his Gucci's cost several hundred, and on and on.

Back in the early 90's, my friend was turned down for several jobs in Wall Street firms (he had a good reputation having predicted the 1987 crash, saving his clients zillions of dollars). He was perplexed and asked a friend he had on the inside of one of the brokerage houses as to how he could have been rejected from the job: he found out they rejected him because he was not wearing button-down shirts.

I don't think we are talking about young women dressing as gangsters or hippies or anything inappropriate to the occasion. Look at their clothing and faces. I believe they did not think there was anything wrong with their footwear. And maybe in their age group, there isn't.

What does Bush have in his hands -- looks like he is walking on double canes or something...?!

karol

 

[BD Jones]

If young gals are wearing flip-flops to weddings, then it seems to me it has become a somewhat "formal" style. I could see the young gals believing that, if it is something you wear to a wedding or a prom, it is also appropriate in visiting the white house.

Just because you wear something to a formal event, does not make it a formal style or even acceptable.

Here is the definition of "Flip-flop". Notice what it says after the first definition.
Here is the definition of formal.

How would you classify the White House event these girls participated in? (This question is not directed just at K.D., but for everyone).

BTW, Bush has two Lacrosse sticks (called a crosse) in his hands. Gifts from the girls.

 

[Feraud]

How would you classify the White House event these girls participated in? (This question is not directed just at K.D., but for everyone).

I would classify this as a 'White House' event.

Looking at the picture I think the ladies all look very nice. Until you look down! I see four young ladies in the front that look like they did not finish getting dressed. They look like they stepped out of the bathroom. What might be normal at a keg party at someone's dorm is certainly not acceptable for meeting the President. There is a difference.

Something to keep in mind with regards to Fashion is "common" or "in" does not necessarily make appropriate.

 

[Biltmore Bob]

And...they make a funny sound when you walk...

 

[Brad Bowers]

Oh, Lord! That's one of the most horrible sounds in the world. Ranks right up there with people chomping their bubble gum.

Brad

 

[LaMedicine]

. In Japan it has always been high fashion to wear Zori, a flip flop of some sorts of which our's are based upon. Would you put them down for wearing Zori to meet the president?

No offense but I'll have to disagree with you on that. Sure, the Japanese wear "zori", but it is part of the traditional costume, and no one, not even the younger generation (and you'll see lots of them in Tokyo in fashionable flip -flops), dare to pair "zori" worn on bare feet with western wear -- by western, I mean US/European, not Western as in cowboys-- and go traipsing even for an informal occasion, much less any scene of business or formal events. (And, I'd say that an invitation to the White House to honor your accomplishment should be termed "business", wouldn't you, at least for the president, because it is part of his job to meet his fellow countrymen/women who did a great job. One of the dress codes that I have had drilled into me was never to overdress or to underdress your host -- well, OK, so I grew up in a diplomatic community where social protocol is very strict.)
Besides, the dress code with kimonos are much more stricter than western wear, with about 8 grades, from kimonos on par with the robe decorte of European royalty, down to suitable only for daily household wear, still very much in effect to this day, and if you wore zori on bare feet, horror of all horrors, it will be a very serious offense of protocol. Both men and women MUST wear "tabi", the two-toed socks, made of cotton, or linen for summer when wearing zori. Bare feet are paired only with "geta", the wooden clogs that are sandals for daily wear. Admittedly, men sometimes can wear zori on bare feet, but only when they are in yukata, the most informal of kimonos (technically they are lounge wear barely one grade up from sleep wear and on par with jeans and T shirts), but that's just about it.

I did go to the White House once (was invited by the First Lady of the time) in a pair of zori--complete in a kimono third on the kimono scale, and tabi, of course. This is on par with afternoon dress and heels (which was what the First Lady and the daughter of the VP were wearing) for western wear.

NEVER EVER take traditional cultural articles out of context, you'll never know when you're making a serious breach of manners and protocol, especially in these time and days where you never know who's who.

BTW I have two daughters in their twenties, one doesn't even own a pair of flip-flops, and the other who owns one pair, heatedly replied to my question on what she intended to wear to an interview for a summer job, that she would not even consider wearing flip flops, they are only for fun and play!

 

[FlapperRen]

Well apparently I am outnumbered here. What a bunch of Snobs-