Flight Jackets for dummies...please skool me...

[addison]

...I AM THE DUMMY!

I looked for a thread about this and didn't find one, so here goes...

I want a leather flight jacket. I want to be like other cool kids on this site. Not so much vintage but just for everyday wear.

I have read that the old ones fight tight. Well, I'm a fat bald old guy who wants one that will comfortably fit my overweight self (5' 9", 250 lbs).

My questions are:

1. I've been looking at A-2's...is this what I want? Other options, if any?
2. Do I want cow hide, goat skin or other? What are the pro's and con's of the different leather options?
3. Do contemporary flight jackets fit tight or loose? Do I order my true size or should I order one large/small?
4. I am on a budget. I can't afford a $400 jacket, and I'm hoping to stay at $250 or so. What is the minimum cost of entry for a nice flight jacket for everyday use?
5. I see Coopers on eBay in the price range I'm looking at, but I don't see anything under about $400 for sale on this site. Is Cooper junk or something? What brands are best in my price range and is Cooper A-2 a quality jacket?

Thanks for looking and for any help you can provide.

Have a blessed day!

 

[Edgar Laurel]

I'll try to "lighten up the path" for you a little.

1 - Remember that A2 jackets have waist knits.
Specialized repro manufacturers (Eastman, Goodwear, BK, Aero etc.) make a considerable number of models, based on different contracts of different manufacturers, some do fit mor tightly and are generaly more flatterint to athletic builds or slim builds, others do fit more relaxed so you would have a lot of options (including ordering a jacket made to your own specs)with one of the aces in the game but they sit quite distant from your budget.
Of the rack options are more limited fit wise so, you would have to be lucky enough to come across a jacket that could fit a non standar body type like yours so the question is not "Is the A-2 right for me?"
The right question would be "What kind of A-2 would be the better for me".
My answer is: Any kind as long as you can have it made to your specs.

2 - The leather...Goat is a very good option, highly durable, soft from the start and the grainy looks of it make it a gorgeous hide.
Usually the other option given to potential A-2 buyers is horse hide. Originaly A-2's were made with it so most of the specialists do offer this option above all. Horse will endure everything, almost a bullet proof hide. It is also a very stiff hide from the start and it takes a few wear to star to break and soften. Once broken it's one of the nicest richest hides available.
Given the fact that your're on a budget horse hide seems very unlikely to be your aim.

3- Go back to 1

4 - My area of interest has kept me in price ranges galaxies away the one you're aiming but thanks to a small memory flash I could remember that Wested had an A-2 with a relatively low price, around 250 us dollars with the option to choose the hide and being customized to your own measurements.

5 - Don't have a clue about the quality of those jackets but lets say i'm skeptical about it.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

Have a look a this mate http://www.uswings.com/product-category/jackets-coats/leather-jackets/a-2-jackets/.

They have many A2's and other jackets that might be in your range.

On style (and being a fairly big lad myself) my personal opinion is that the A2 isn't such a good style for us as the pockets draw attention to our mid drift plus they are pretty short jackets. Just my opinion tho and I have an A2 which I wear regardless.

Regards

Garry

 

[handymike]

You can pick up older LL Bean A2s on ebay for very good prices. The ones with numbered sizes are better than the S, M, L ones in my understanding. They are a good place to start if you're not sure that the style is right for you. Also, you can find a whole lot of 1950s flight/ bomber styles on eBay too. Sears/ Hercules are great horsehide/steerhide ones if in good shape. At 5'9" a vintage jacket will probably be long enough. Another thought- you could go for a G1. a different jacket, but it fits a bit roomier. They look cool too, and can be gotten for cheaper on the re-sale market. Here's a size 46 tall @ $40.00:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEARS-BROWN...361611?hash=item4b0ccdcecb:g:VrwAAOSw44BYNPxY

 

[Edgar Laurel]

You can pick up older LL Bean A2s on ebay for very good prices. The ones with numbered sizes are better than the S, M, L ones in my understanding. They are a good place to start if you're not sure that the style is right for you. Also, you can find a whole lot of 1950s flight/ bomber styles on eBay too. Sears/ Hercules are great horsehide/steerhide ones if in good shape. At 5'9" a vintage jacket will probably be long enough.

At 5'9 I can guarantee you he will get jackets of pretty nice fitting length since that is my exact height. I just have less 95 pounds.
I'm right there with you about the numbered sizes vs S,M,L.

 

[bn1966]

I've seen standard Wested A-2s in the flesh, good value for money but not my cup of tea, hide & cut miles away from my Eastman RW A-2. I do rate Wested, having had them make me a very nice custom goatskin G-1 / M-422A (thread / pics posted elsewhere in this forum) at a nice price.

 

[Edgar Laurel]

I've seen standard Wested A-2s in the flesh, good value for money but not my cup of tea, hide & cut miles away from my Eastman RW A-2. I do rate Wested, having had them make me a very nice custom goatskin G-1 / M-422A (thread / pics posted elsewhere in this forum) at a nice price.

Addison is on a budget so I think that a Wested would be a good deal for the money he was going to invest.

 

[ChiTownScion]

If I can offer one bit of advice: research before you buy. This forum, as well as Vintage Leather Jackets Forum, are good links to keep. Eventually, keep the links of the various manufacturers and their retailers. Try to determine what you like, what you don't like, ask questions, and learn from the mistakes of others.

Oh, and keep watching the classifieds here as well. You'll be surprised at some of the bargains on quality used jackets that will pop up- and that may be an affordable way to obtain a higher quality jacket. Best of luck!

 

[rocketeer]

Hi, as an old time A2 wearer from the days of the early 1980s when in the UK repro's were almost unknown, I would like to add jus a little of my experiences.
Looking for a cheap, fairly accurate A2? Try seeking out an Eastman from the 1980s. He started production in the mid to late 1980s and used both horse and steer hides, the ring snaps which I think are better and still historically correct.
The fit tended to be a little boxy but looked fine with all the correct details and even the labels were fairly accurate but named to 'Eastman' rather than any original maker. The jackets did happen to be rather generous in the shoulders, I still have mine, though bought secondhand about 25-28 years ago and have though I have got quite a bit fatter myself, still fits(a 44) but droops at the shoulders about an inch. Personally I think it looks OK and have just had it re-cuffed. A semi authentic looking Talon zip (non WWII replica) is still in perfect working order and it makes a great everyday working jacket with plenty of room for layering or an armoured vest should I decide to ride a motorbike in it.
To sum up.
Try to find an old Eastman form the 1980s-early 1990s, in steer rather than horse, as many buyers are a bit pedantic about the horse hide thing so steer examples sell considerably cheaper, especially on eBay. Look for Andrew Swatland's post on the Horse V steer hide thing(quite interesting if historical accuracy is your thing).
Avirex made some A2 styles in the 1980s as well. All painted backs and kill marks vaguely based on original jackets, these tend to be quite roomy with hand warmer pockets, usually made from cheap napper lamb. If the historically accurate thing is your thing, don't bother with these, though they did make some reasonably accurate repro's before the Top Gun, Raiders of Lost Cause and Empire of the Sun movies sent old style leather jacket production into orbit.
Hope that helps, J.Tee

 

[aswatland]

I would recommend a used Eastman jacket. They regularly come up for sale on Ebay in the $400-$600 price range. They are probably the most accurate A2s you can buy in your price range. Like originals they made them from horse, cow and goatskin. Good luck.

 

[Deacon211]

Hey, welcome to the forum!

I think price is going to be your limiting factor, but you still have choices.

1. For what you are looking for and your body type, I'd suggest looking at Gibson and Barnes. It's a little more expensive (I'm guessing 400-600) but they have been cut increasingly broad across the middle in recent years since not everyone is a 150lb lieutenant anymore. I think most people would agree that they are well made and made of nice leather, if not extraordinarily accurate to the original sizing (on purpose as I said).

2. US Wings has a wide range of quality, with jackets occasionally on sale for $199. I wouldn't have normally thought much of a $199 jacket. But I got one for my wife (who I wasn't certain would like flight jackets) three years ago now and it has not only held up surprisingly well, but has broken very nicely. Certainly worth a look.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Doctor Strange]

You can definitely wear an A-2: I'm a widebody and have had several!

If you're going for a modestly priced A-2, you want goatskin. Nothing wrong with cowhide or lambskin... but they weren't ever standard hides for mil-spec A-2s. And goatskin is quite supple yet almost indestructible. Forget horsehide for now - good horsehide is expensive, and it takes a lot more of a commitment to break in and wear comfortably than lighter hides.

Your best buy in a decent (WWII style) A-2 replica may be from a re-enactor outfit like:

http://onlinemilitaria.com/products/5467-US-A-2-Leather-Flight-Jacket/

I've got a couple of their items (Ike jacket, British belted bush jacket) and they are very well made. I would consider them before mainstream companies like US Wings/Cockpit/Legendary. That said, some of the USW $199 specials are definitely okay for the price, even if they're far off the original WWII specs (e.g., synthetic lining and knits instead of cotton and wool).

Much has been written here about US Authentic. Their A-2s are nice - I had one - but their trim-but-long sizing is all wrong for us wide-middle types.

I always sing the praises of Wested (I've had one of their Raiders jackets for a dozen years; and I just got my son a nice lambskin blouson from them)... Their stuff is very good for the price, and they will do custom sizing (or different hides, linings, etc.) for very reasonable cost. That said, their A-2 - while no doubt a very serviceable jacket - is "wrong" in all kinds of ways (e.g., snaps on the windflap). But if you don't really care about accuracy, they'd likely be a fine choice.

Gibson & Barnes jackets are excellent (I've got two)... but they seem to be kind of out of the leather jacket biz these days, with custom-only pricing(?!?). Still, their jackets are well made, generously sized, and worth keeping an eye out for.

If you really don't care about accuracy at all, consider used LL Bean "Flying Tiger" A-2s on eBay. Bean has sold these for many years, and while there have been a lot of variations, they are all okay garments... if pretty awful repros (e.g., three-piece backs, very oversized cut, synthetic fabrics). Do NOT buy one new!

I have no comment on buying used A-2s from these makers, former companies like Cooper, or the premium makers (Eastman, Aero, Good Wear, Lost Worlds, McCoy's, Kelso, etc.) I've never bought a used leather jacket - I haven't bought/sold anything on eBay in 15 years. Partly this is due to my preferring new to used in general. In any case, buying used requires a different set of expertise I don't have... but many others here do.

 

[Edgar Laurel]

It's so good to see how eager to help everyone is.

 

[Peacoat]

HandyMike mentioned a LL Bean A-2. You might also look into the LL Bean G-1. You can find them on eBay for well under your budget.

 

[El Marro]

It's so good to see how eager to help everyone is.

That is something that I really like about this forum. It's nice to see the wide range of knowledge regarding the the jackets out there, from high end to low end.
My advice would be to save a little more money until you are able to buy something in the $400.00-$500.00 range. On eBay and the classifieds here I see beautiful A-2 jackets from Eastman and Aero that are sold almost new in this price range. I think you will be much happier with one of these jackets, especially since you have been reading this forum and learning about quality A-2 jackets. Good luck and happy hunting!

 

[aswatland]

You can definitely wear an A-2: I'm a widebody and have had several!

If you're going for a modestly priced A-2, you want goatskin. Nothing wrong with cowhide or lambskin... but they weren't ever standard hides for mil-spec A-2s.

Whilst lambskin was not used to make Wartime issued A2s cow hide was used extensively to make them. The Materiel Division issued a spec for cow hide, 12028 from June 1940. DNA testing from surviving A2s commissioned by Gary Eastman demonstrates that cowhide was used to make a range of Wartime A2s, including Aeros, Roughwears, notably from the 23380 contract, Star Sportswear, Bronco and Werber Sportswear.

 

[Doctor Strange]

I respectfully disagree, El Marro. He's looking for his first leather flight jacket. Not everyone is up for the challenge of buying used. There are plenty of good starter A-2 and G-1 type jackets out there he can buy new.

Pushing someone to go for a used Eastman/Aero/GW/etc. before they're ready - before they've even handled a single decent repro - is likely to overwhelm them. Pushing someone into the hazards of dealing with measuring and evaluating used leather jackets with eBay sellers before they're ready (or before they even understand what wearing the heavier hides is like), could definitely go wrong. Pushing them to spend more than they want to on their first jacket, just because we know that they're likely to want a better jacket eventually (even though it doesn't actually happen that way with everyone... just most!), isn't necessarily the right move.

Let him start - like most of us did - with a standard A-2 from a low- or medium-range maker and work his way up if he decides he wants to. You know, I still wear my old G&B Civil A-2 (which cost a mere $288 back in 2001) just as much as my Good Wear Dubow that cost about four times that. Those extra pockets come in handy at times, even if the fit and details are nowhere near as "authentic". It's quite possible to enjoy wearing these jackets without being fixated on high quality and super accuracy... even though it's the hardcore obsessives who are that make the most noise in this forum.

 

[nick123]

Let's get the first thing in order: you're not a dummy.

 

[RJR]

You didn't say a chest size,Addison,that would be helpful.

 

[Doctor Strange]

Andrew, I always defer to your expertise, and I am of course aware that we're now saying there were indeed cowhide originals (which wasn't the case for the first dozen years I was interested in A-2s!)... but you are providing a perfect example of the kind of obsessive attention to detail that scares the heck out of flight jacket newbies.

There's nothing wrong with him getting cowhide or lambskin for his first A-2 jacket, if that's what come his way at the right price and sizing. Not everyone wants or needs an outstanding repro of a particular WWII A-2 maker/contract - especially when they're just starting out and on a budget. Not all of us can manage it: it took me a decade and several less expensive jackets before I made the decision and pulled together the funds to get a Good Wear. Let's not make addison feel like he's "wrong" to want to start with a basic, inexpensive model.