Flame resistance of leather?

[Doctor Damage]

If you go with leather make sure it's got a 100% cotton lining. I guess wool knits would be best, although perhaps nomex knits would be good if you're getting a custom jacket (nomex is available in green, blue, and black I believe). I remember seeing a company that was making leather A2 jackets with nomex linings and knits, but I can't remember the link.

 

[01flhr]

Wesco fire boots are leather with a nomex lining. at work we all have to wear flame retardant rated clothing in case of a flash fire. i wear leather boots all the time as does everyone else because it wont burn up in a flash fire. the last thing i worry about burning up are my boots. even the guys who put out well fires wear leather boots.

 

[Deacon211]

Interesting posts. During our safety stand downs, we were always reminded that Nomex doesn't protect you from a fire...it just doesn't add insult to injury. Nomex will char and be reduced to ashes...it won't really keep the flames away.

If you are in an aircraft fire for any length of time, you are going to burn. It has happened to more than one pilot, primarily when he couldn't extricate himself from the aircraft. But, if you can get out in a reasonable amount of time, you won't be flaming like a marshmallow in burning synthetic fabrics (and that's going to pay big dividends)!

If you can keep your linings and cuffs natural fibers, I honestly think it's probably a bit of a toss up between Nomex and leather as an outer layer. I think the impermeability of leather may deflect some amount of initial flame and flash burns. Extra layers of Nomex might or might not be as initially resistant.

It probably goes without saying that you should probably avoid most if not all leather treatments, unless you are certain that they won't act as fuel for whatever flame you are exposed to.

Looking forward to the pics!


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[Doctor Damage]

Looking forward to the pics!

Pics of what?? Burned up flight clothing? ha ha

It probably goes without saying that you should probably avoid most if not all leather treatments, unless you are certain that they won't act as fuel for whatever flame you are exposed to.

Firefighters are instructed to wash their clothing constantly, because all the "crap" that gets on and soaked into their clothing during an event can catch fire itself, even if the clothing is flame proof.

Anyways, there's lots of videos and articles out there, but let's quote from Dupont's website:

In a flash fire situation, a matter of seconds can mean the difference between minor burns and life-threatening injuries. By far the greatest factor affecting survivability is the percentage of the body that receives second and third-degree burns. The lower the level of total body burn, the greater the chance of survival.Flame-resistant garments made of DuPont™ Nomex® help protect the wearer from the heat and flame of a flash fire, providing valuable seconds of protection for escape and helping to minimise the potential for burn injury. Nomex® fibre thickens instantly, creating an expanded barrier while reducing heat transfer. This increases the protective barrier between the heat source and the skin, helping ensure less heat is transferred to the wearer. This tough barrier stays supple and flexible until it cools, providing extra seconds of protection without impairing mobility. DuPont™ Nomex® has an optimal blend of meta and para-aramid fibres that offers ideal comfort, breathability and protection, in a lightweight fabric that has proven itself over many decades of protecting firefighters across Europe. It helps offer excellent thermal performance and inherent flame resistance. And because it doesn’t melt or drip, it stays supple and flexible until it cools down, helping to protect you while you get clear of danger.

And here's a comparison pic of 4 seconds, nomex vs cotton, from Dupont. Count four "steamships" and you'll see how long four seconds is.

 

[TXFlyGuy]

Wow...4 seconds! If the worst happens, and I make a hole in a field, I better get outta that thing, el quicko!
While several of the replica Mustangs have made off airport arrivals, there has never been a post crash fire.
It would be interesting to see a leather jacket exposed to the 4 second fire and heat treatment.

 

[TXFlyGuy]

Just saw an interesting video on YouTube. Testing various fabrics with a flame, and seeing which material would burn. Pure cotton did burn, and rather quickly. Poly / cotton blends did burn, but not as fast as I would have thought. A fire retardant treated poly material did not burn much at all.
And, ready for this? A swatch of leather, exposed to direct flame, did not catch on fire. It did scorch, but did not go ablaze like the other materials.

 

[Edward]

Now 50s nylon flight suits, what were they thinking?

$$$, probably! It's not a cheap business, outfitting an entire military. That and a nylon B15 / MA1 would definitely have outperformed an A2 in non-fire issues, such as warmth.

 

[TXFlyGuy]

Here are two short videos from an airshow, with two of the factory aircraft, a B and D model:

 

[Deacon211]

Pics of what?? Burned up flight clothing? ha ha

Pics of the airplane, silly person!

Awesome video Tex! Love the Mustang. I was thinking of building a replica, but my budget is more modest.

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[TXFlyGuy]

That is way cool, and I bet a blast to fly! I have been looking into flight helmets, for protection as well as better hearing with the built in ANR headset. The T-51 recently suffered it's first fatality, in New Zealand. No post impact fire, but the pilot died from head trauma...perhaps his shoulder harness was not being used, or was a bit loose? He hit his forehead on the instrument panel, is what they speculate. A flight helmet would have saved his rear end.

 

[Doctor Damage]

Here's a good video which compares nomex, cotton, and cotton/poly flight suits. The key is the full immersion in flame, not just a lighter or blowtorch at one spot. Note how the nomex self-extinguishes when the flames go away, which is one of the primary benefits of the stuff.

 

[TXFlyGuy]

Wow! Getting ready to call G&B now, and order their nomex flight suit.
Thanks for posting this video! Here is another video that is good:

 

[TXFlyGuy]

While we are on it, what about Carbon-X? Some claim it's better than Nomex.

 

[Deacon211]

Great picture Tex...that plane came out beautifully.

Just a little mom and apple pie from my squadron safety stand down days. If you don't have the sleeves rolled down or the collar up, you aren't doing yourself any favors. I knew a guy who lost most of his appendages when he was caught in an aircraft fire. He had his gear on properly, but was in the flames for too long.


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[Sloan1874]

OK, that is funny! Is Schitzo still around? Been awhile since I saw him.

He was travelling under the nom-de-plank 'Cold Cuts', and was barred a few weeks back for his usual charming behaviour.
As far as leather's fire retardant qualities, I've seen one A-2 that obviously had taken a bit of a torching at some point, with the affected area 'shrinking'.

 

[TXFlyGuy]

Great picture Tex...that plane came out beautifully.

Just a little mom and apple pie from my squadron safety stand down days. If you don't have the sleeves rolled down or the collar up, you aren't doing yourself any favors. I knew a guy who lost most of his appendages when he was caught in an aircraft fire. He had his gear on properly, but was in the flames for too long.

That is a nice photo, and that Mustang is in the U.K. Mine is still at the factory in Ohio.
I was advised to wear gloves, leather or nomex. And boots.
That person who lost appendages...he most likely would have lost a lot more had he not been dressed properly.

 

[Deacon211]

Very true!


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[Doctor Damage]

I'd be wearing one of those nomex firefirghter hoods, too.

 

[TXFlyGuy]

Here is another, very interesting video from DuPont:

 

[sweetfights]

Here is another, very interesting video from DuPont:

This is why in my fire dept. we all wear nomex station wear. When we enter a structure on fire we add the complete bunker gear and nomex hood with leather gloves and boots. And of course SCBA