Flame resistance of leather?

[TXFlyGuy]

How flame resistant is a typical leather flight jacket? My replica P-51 Mustang will be flying soon, and I will want to wear a nomex flightsuit, with under garments, gloves and boots.
A nomex jacket can be purchased, but if the leather will do almost as well, I'll stick with that.

What say you?

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Leather is skin and even though tanned will burn as any skin ( if not more so ). A treated synthetic such as Nomex claims flame retardant capabilities. So the choice is evident I would think.
HD

 

[navetsea]

will burn to dust, all the treatment oil/ fat/ mineral spirit will make it worse, but it won't melt and make a mess like pleather

 

[Peacoat]

As a former military pilot who flew many combat missions, the least of my worries was whether to wear leather or nomex. Leather wasn't available at the time, and Nomex had not yet been widely issued. But none of it made much difference when we got into the anti-aircraft fire. If we got hit with the 37 mm we were going down, irrespective of what flight jacket we were wearing. Duty, Honor, Country. Peacoat.

 

[AdeeC]

I believe the resistance of leather will be pretty good in case of fire. Will take a while to burn through due to its thickness and toughness. One would be likely already dead from heat and smoke under conditions where a leather jacket will catch alight and burn through to the next layer. Welders, blacksmiths and foundry workers use leather aprons and gloves which resist localised intense heat from sparks and sprays of molten metal.

 

[Stearmen]

Before WWII the U.S. Army and Navy chose leather and wool jackets because they are fire resistant. They will only burn if there is a direct flame and are both self extinguishing when the flame is taken away! I believe the book Hell Bent For Leather talks about it. Now 50s nylon flight suits, what were they thinking?

 

[Lean'n'mean]

Leather is pretty flame resistant in that if you are surrounded by flames,( & not actually in them) leather will probably be the last thing you're wearing to catch fire....you'd most likely be dead by then anyway by smoke inhalation or the effects of intense heat. As for jackets, fur collars & synthetic linings are their weak points when it comes to fire. Firemen/firefighters often wear leather boots & they know a thing or two about fire.

If I was flying, I'd be more concerned about hitting the ground than catching fire though but if you are sitting in a burning aircraft & you can't get out quick,(injury, trapped etc.) you're gonna fry what ever you're wearing. .....one could always wear an asbestos suit I guess.


EDIT: bear in mind we are not experts, & quick call or visit to your local fire station may provide you with more reliable info.

 

[Superfluous]

I don't know, but Schitzo survived some brutal flaming, so his leather was surprisingly flame resistant.

 

[rocketeer]

Why do you think it may catch fire? If I thought that may be a possibility I don't think I would want to fly it.
Then again if it did and you survived, hang it on the wall of the office and claim some bragging rights

 

[Peacoat]

I don't know, but Schitzo survived some brutal flaming, so his leather was surprisingly flame resistant.

OK, that is funny! Is Schitzo still around? Been awhile since I saw him.

 

[TXFlyGuy]

No, I do not plan on the aircraft burning up. Just being prudent. I will wear a flight helmet also.

A good friend who owns and flies a P-51 always wears nomex, and a helmet.

 

[nick123]

I've lit a swatch of goat and horse on fire with a lighter once-not sure why. Totally melted and the house smelled less than pleasant.

 

[Skyhawk]

Nomex would be best. But leather, like nomex, will char and ash rather than flaming up and melting like nylon. Leather will work but consider the lining too. A cotton liner is much more flame resistant than a nylon liner, which could melt and flame up regardless of the leather on the outside.
An authentic A-2 with a cotton liner and cotton thread would be about as good and really cool to wear! I would use both depending on the conditions. Heck get all three. A-2, CWU 36P Summer, & CWU 45P Winter.

 

[Mark Ricketts]

I use leather gloves, leather apron and a leather jerkin daily for my work, specifically for their heat resistant properties and ability to withstand flash flames. Excess heat puts a distinct shine on the leather and will damage it, but in all reality, in prolonged heat, your body will cook long before the leather burns.

 

[ButteMT61]

Well, if shop class, we did casting, forging, etc. and used leather gloves and smocks.
Of course the dangers of a P-51 differ greatly, but I would defer to @Peacoat on his answer.
If it were mine, I think I'd go "Look the part". And, BTW, please post some pics of that thing!!!!

 

[TXFlyGuy]

And, BTW, please post some pics of that thing!!!!

I will soon.

 

[sweetfights]

How flame resistant is a typical leather flight jacket? My replica P-51 Mustang will be flying soon, and I will want to wear a nomex flightsuit, with under garments, gloves and boots.
A nomex jacket can be purchased, but if the leather will do almost as well, I'll stick with that.

What say you?

Leather is more heat resistant than flame resistant. Hot enough fire- everything burns . Aviation fuel makes for hot fire. My firefighting boots are leather but only provide limited protection from heat and flame. It really comes down to temperature/ time exposure . At the end of the day tanning chemicals, oils etc. would also affect heat and flame resistance.
I also wear nomex at work. Protective clothing only buys you some time.
I would go with whatever looks and feels the nicest to you. My firefighter gloves are also leather. The thicker the better the protection but you then lose functionality.

 

[TXFlyGuy]

Yes. Given enough time, anything will burn. Ideally, in a post crash event, the quick-release canopy could be jettisoned in a timely manner. Then I could extricate myself, assuming I was still alive/conscious. Only would need the fire/flame protection for that period of time.

 

[Doctor Damage]

A treated synthetic such as Nomex claims flame retardant capabilities.

Nomex and aramid are not treated, the heat and flame resistance is a basic characteristic of the cloth itself.

Leather is more heat resistant than flame resistant. Hot enough fire- everything burns . Aviation fuel makes for hot fire. My firefighting boots are leather but only provide limited protection from heat and flame. It really comes down to temperature/ time exposure . At the end of the day tanning chemicals, oils etc. would also affect heat and flame resistance. I also wear nomex at work. Protective clothing only buys you some time. I would go with whatever looks and feels the nicest to you. My firefighter gloves are also leather. The thicker the better the protection but you then lose functionality.

I'm pleased to see a firefighter post re this topic. Everything you've said matches what I've read from other firefighters and in reports on materials, etc. Everything burns, and quickly. The whole idea of nomex is to buy you a few more seconds. It will burn like everything else, but unlike those old USAF nylon jackets, it won't melt onto your skin in 1 second.

Here's something everyone should do: When I was a kid my mom sat my sister and I down in front of the fireplace and one by one tossed swatches of different cloth onto a log in the fire. Cotton took the longest to ignite, and didn't melt onto the log. Nylon and polyester almost instantly melted onto the log. Hence you should always wear cotton pyjamas in case of a fire while you are sleeping. If you do get burned badly, then it's easier for the hospital to treat skin which doesn't have nylon melted into it. Needless to say my mother didn't have any nomex or leather swatches, but it would be interesting to try those too.

As for leather, it's worth pointing out that French sapeurs pompiers wore leather coats for about 25 years, although they too have switched to fire resistant cloth. Granted, as I understand it, their approach to firefighting generally was more a stand-off and spray technique, not a get-in-there technique like North American firefighters, so they didn't need really hard-core heat and flame protection. Please correct me if you know better. They've switched to cloth now, with more sealed up breathing systems etc, although I'm sure they have the same probs North American firefighters do, namely that the cloth clothing soaks up water and all sorts of chemicals and substances, and has to be washed constantly.

Yes. Given enough time, anything will burn. Ideally, in a post crash event, the quick-release canopy could be jettisoned in a timely manner. Then I could extricate myself, assuming I was still alive/conscious. Only would need the fire/flame protection for that period of time.

Exactly, just a few seconds. In fact, I bet the USAF switched to nomex as protection for non-ejection seat pilots and back-of-the-plane crews who had to mess around a bit longer to get out of a burning plane than ejection seat pilots. But I'm speculating, I don't know.

 

[sweetfights]

Nomex and aramid are not treated, the heat and flame resistance is a basic characteristic of the cloth itself.

I'm pleased to see a firefighter post re this topic. Everything you've said matches what I've read from other firefighters and in reports on materials, etc. Everything burns, and quickly. The whole idea of nomex is to buy you a few more seconds. It will burn like everything else, but unlike those old USAF nylon jackets, it won't melt onto your skin in 1 second.

Here's something everyone should do: When I was a kid my mom sat my sister and I down in front of the fireplace and one by one tossed swatches of different cloth onto a log in the fire. Cotton took the longest to ignite, and didn't melt onto the log. Nylon and polyester almost instantly melted onto the log. Hence you should always wear cotton pyjamas in case of a fire while you are sleeping. If you do get burned badly, then it's easier for the hospital to treat skin which doesn't have nylon melted into it. Needless to say my mother didn't have any nomex or leather swatches, but it would be interesting to try those too.

As for leather, it's worth pointing out that French sapeurs pompiers wore leather coats for about 25 years, although they too have switched to fire resistant cloth. Granted, as I understand it, their approach to firefighting generally was more a stand-off and spray technique, not a get-in-there technique like North American firefighters, so they didn't need really hard-core heat and flame protection. Please correct me if you know better. They've switched to cloth now, with more sealed up breathing systems etc, although I'm sure they have the same probs North American firefighters do, namely that the cloth clothing soaks up water and all sorts of chemicals and substances, and has to be washed constantly.

Exactly, just a few seconds. In fact, I bet the USAF switched to nomex as protection for non-ejection seat pilots and back-of-the-plane crews who had to mess around a bit longer to get out of a burning plane than ejection seat pilots. But I'm speculating, I don't know.

well said !