Want to buy or sell something? Check the classifieds
  • The Fedora Lounge is supported in part by commission earning affiliate links sitewide. Please support us by using them. You may learn more here.

Fitzgerald vs. Hemingway

Marc Chevalier

Gone Home
Messages
18,192
Location
Los Feliz, Los Angeles, California
.

Arnold Gingrich, the legendary editor who created Apparel Arts and Esquire, was a personal friend of F. Scott Fitzgerald and Ernest Hemingway. Here's what Mr. Gingrich wrote about the way the two dressed:


"Scott [Fitzgerald] in my eyes always had an elegance surpassing even that of the Arrow Collar Man, who had been the model we all grew up admiring. I can see him now in my mind's eye as he looked that day in Baltimore, in the early spring of 1935, just before we were sitting down to lunch. ... I can't remember a damn thing that the other three of us wore, but I can see every detail of what Scott was wearing. He turned away to put on an old heather tweed jacket, and his clothes are as plain to me now as if I were looking at them in a shop window: white shoes with a dark brown saddle, pipe-clayed like a British soldier's belt, grey flannel slacks -- supremely well cut, venerable, but gracefully aged -- and a black pullover that, aside from being vastly becoming, contrived to make him look as if he could never seem to be more than six or seven years out of Princeton -- and he was then almost thirty-eight."


"(In contrast, a mental snapshot of Ernest [Hemingway] at about the same time ... shows a hulking creature bulging out of a blue tweed suit -- cut by O'Rossen in the Place Vendome -- with the sleeves and the pant legs both too short, an oatmeal flannel shirt whose collar is unevenly turned down, a russet wool tie askew, and pebbly grained thick-soled shoes of a wrong shade of liverish brown. The general effect is that of items left over from a rummage sale.)"


If you have any literary references to writers and their clothes, please share them here. :) Thanks!

.
 
Marc Chevalier said:
.

Arnold Gingrich, the legendary editor who created Apparel Arts and Esquire, was a personal friend of F. Scott Fitzgerald and Ernest Hemingway. Here's what Mr. Gingrich wrote about the way the two dressed:


"Scott [Fitzgerald] in my eyes always had an elegance surpassing even that of the Arrow Collar Man, who had been the model we all grew up admiring. I can see him now in my mind's eye as he looked that day in Baltimore, in the early spring of 1935, just before we were sitting down to lunch. ... I can't remember a damn thing that the other three of us wore, but I can see every detail of what Scott was wearing. He turned away to put on an old heather tweed jacket, and his clothes are as plain to me now as if I were looking at them in a shop window: white shoes with a dark brown saddle, pipe-clayed like a British soldier's belt, grey flannel slacks -- supremely well cut, venerable, but gracefully aged -- and a black pullover that, aside from being vastly becoming, contrived to make him look as if he could never seem to be more than six or seven years out of Princeton -- and he was then almost thirty-eight."


"(In contrast, a mental snapshot of Ernest [Hemingway] at about the same time ... shows a hulking creature bulging out of a blue tweed suit -- cut by O'Rossen in the Place Vendome -- with the sleeves and the pant legs both too short, an oatmeal flannel shirt whose collar is unevenly turned down, a russet wool tie askew, and pebbly grained thick-soled shoes of a wrong shade of liverish brown. The general effect is that of items left over from a rummage sale.)"


If you have any literary references to writers and their clothes, please share them here. :) Thanks!

.

His observation about the two authors is the same as mine now. :D
 

Hemingway Jones

I'll Lock Up
Bartender
Messages
6,099
Location
Acton, Massachusetts
Excellent post, Marc, truly excellent.

Now, to be totally fair here, Fitzgerald was a firmly established writer already by this time and Ernest was living with Hadley and Bumby in Montmarte without their own toilet.

Though, after offering this defense, those early days in Paris may have perhaps been Ernest's most stylish. Early photos of him in tweed and the occasional beret, were the only ones to rival his young dashing cape-thrown-over-the-shoulders look that he brought back to Oak Park from WWI.

Ernest always felt a little guilty about being a writer, thinking it as a soft existence. He identified more with working men, which is why he created characters like "Harry Morgan" and stayed away from the Jamesian stereotypes that even writers like Maughm were sucked into a generation later. Hemingway parodies dandies and sophisticates in his first truly great novel The Sun Also Rises. It would follow suit that his wardrobe would reflect his hard and rough-scrabble ideals of himself. Remember, this is a man, in later life, clad in a Guayabera, who, while being interviewed about winning the Noble Prize for Literature, referred to himself as a Cubano Sato and who his third wife, Martha Gelhorn, referred to as "the dirtiest man I knew."

Now, Fitzgerald was a Yale Man and a dandy, from a well-to-do family, and he looked every inch the Jazz Age icon that he was. Sartorially the edge and the prize would have to go to Fitzgerald, though Ernest should not be dismissed outright for his appearance at the time that Mr. Gingrinch knew him considering his circumstances. By the mid-thirties, he should have known better. ;)
 

Marc Chevalier

Gone Home
Messages
18,192
Location
Los Feliz, Los Angeles, California
Hemingway Jones said:
Now, to be totally fair here, Fitzgerald was a firmly established writer already by this time and Ernest was living with Hadley and Bumby in Montmarte without their own toilet.

Actually, in 1935 (the year that Gingrich is referring to, for both Fitzgerald and Hemingway) the opposite was true. Fitzgerald's tailspinning career was hanging by a thread, thanks mostly to the loyal Gingrich (who continued to publish his short stories when other magazines wouldn't). Meanwhile, Hemingway was already receiving thousands of dollars from the magazines for each of his short stories.


Fitzgerald was a Princeton man. He'd have scolded you for calling him a Yalie. ;)


.
 
Marc Chevalier said:
Actually, in 1935 (the year that Gingrich is referring to, for both Fitzgerald and Hemingway) the opposite was true. Fitzgerald's tailspinning career was hanging by a thread, thanks mostly to the loyal Gingrich (who continued to publish his short stories when other magazines wouldn't). Meanwhile, Hemingway was already receiving thousands of dollars from the magazines for each of his short stories.


Fitzgerald was a Princeton man. He'd have scolded you for calling him a Yalie. ;)


.

Goes to show you---once a slob always a slob. :p
 

Hemingway Jones

I'll Lock Up
Bartender
Messages
6,099
Location
Acton, Massachusetts
Marc Chevalier said:
Actually, in 1935 the opposite was true. Fitzgerald's tailspinning career was hanging by a thread, thanks mostly to the loyal Gingrich (who continued to publish his short stories when other magazines wouldn't). Meanwhile, Hemingway was already receiving thousands of dollars from the magazines for each of his short stories.


.
I missed that date in your original post. That's what I get for doing two things at once. I was thinking that it was in the early twenties. Also, by then, 1935, their friendship was all but over. Hemingway was living in Key West with Pauline. Mr. Gingrich is lucky that Ernest even showed up in a suit at all! It was probably one left over from earlier days. ;)

My fact checker is on vacation and I prefer to write extemporaneously rather than look up every little detail on the internet, but then I forget how absolute you fellows are.
 

jake_fink

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,279
Location
Taranna
Marc Chevalier said:
Actually, in 1935 (the year that Gingrich is referring to, for both Fitzgerald and Hemingway) the opposite was true. Fitzgerald's tailspinning career was hanging by a thread, thanks mostly to the loyal Gingrich (who continued to publish his short stories when other magazines wouldn't). Meanwhile, Hemingway was already receiving thousands of dollars from the magazines for each of his short stories.


Fitzgerald was a Princeton man. He'd have scolded you for calling him a Yalie. ;)


.

As well, Hemingway had married Pauline Pfeiffer, a former Vogue writer and editor and a very very wealthy woman. Hemingway had all of the advantages here to outshine Fitzgerald sartorially; He was also going through a period in which he was mostly drunk, apparently raving mad, more interested in killing things in Africa than anything else and writing (infrequently) the weakest work of his career. The impression was that Hemingway was, no less than Fitzgerald, washed up - at least as a leading liteary figure - and a wash up is what Gingrich seems to be describing. By the mid 30s Hemingaway's suit, from a place on the Place Vendome, must have been close to ten years old - cut of a younger, fitter man. Anyway, however poorly he may have been dressed, he is a fascinating figure.

Edited to say: gosh I type slow, you beat me.
 

Marc Chevalier

Gone Home
Messages
18,192
Location
Los Feliz, Los Angeles, California
jake_fink said:
As well, Hemingway [was] ... writing (infrequently) the weakest work of his career.

With one big exception: "The Snows of Kilimanjaro," written for Esquire in 1936.



jake_fink said:
The impression was that Hemingway was, no less than Fitzgerald, washed up - at least as a leading liteary figure ...

In 1935, Hemingway was not perceived as washed up -- his "letters from Bimini" and short stories were in great demand (and generally well reviewed), and the big magazines were paying huge sums for them.


.
 

Martinis at 8

Practically Family
Messages
710
Location
Houston
No disrespect to anyone, but Hemingway has always been one of my least favorite authors as well as one of my least favorite historical personages. He would never make it on my Top Ten thread that I posted a while back. However, I do find it interesting that he enjoyed tauromaquia, as do I.

In my travels I have labelled a group of people I encounter as 'Hemingway People'. These are a certain type of US expatriate living abroad that share some very common charactersitics. Perhaps I will elaborate on this further in the Steamer Trunk section someday.

Fitzgerald I like a bit more, but not much more.

Cheers,

M8
 
Martinis at 8 said:
No disrespect to anyone, but Hemingway has always been one of my least favorite authors as well as one of my least favorite historical personages. He would never make it on my Top Ten thread that I posted a while back. However, I do find it interesting that he enjoyed tauromaquia, as do I.

In my travels I have labelled a group of people I encounter as 'Hemingway People'. These are a certain type of US expatriate living abroad that share some very common charactersitics. Perhaps I will elaborate on this further in the Steamer Trunk section someday.

Fitzgerald I like a bit more, but not much more.

Cheers,

M8

Thank goodness you posted that. :eusa_clap I am not the only one who thinks he was a bum. It was getting lonely out here. :D

Regards,

J
 

HadleyH

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,811
Location
Top of the Hill
:eek:fftopic: I don't know about Hemingway's clothes but I do know that some of his work is - "richly rewarding (think "The Sun Also Rises") and also while his faults were terrible (hunting and killing) he was also a more truly heroic figure than any of his legend would grant him". -

The man and his work meant something for the world, that's what I want to say.
Even his end, - "in a blood-drenched century, his death in all his bloody ghastliness remains unforgettable". -

Love him or hate him Papa was Papa.
 

Martinis at 8

Practically Family
Messages
710
Location
Houston
jamespowers said:
Thank goodness you posted that. :eusa_clap I am not the only one who thinks he was a bum. It was getting lonely out here. :D

Regards,

J

Well he did have some creative genius. Disturbing is the legacy of these 'Hemingway People' that I find in different locations around the globe.


HadleyH said:
:eek:fftopic: I don't know about Hemingway's clothes but I do know that some of his work is - "richly rewarding (think "The Sun Also Rises") and also while his faults were terrible (hunting and killing) he was also a more truly heroic figure than any of his legend would grant him". -

The man and his work meant something for the world, that's what I want to say.
Even his end, - "in a blood-drenched century, his death in all his bloody ghastiness remains unforgettable". -

Love him or hate him Papa was Papa.

Well he's not my Papa! I don't really hate him anyways.

So, not into hunting, eh? I haven't hunted since I was a teen, but I think it's okay as a pastime for those who indulge. So what do you think of Hemingway's love of tauromaquia (bullfighting). At least with this sport the bull has a chance, and when a bullfighter gets into the ring he knows there are only one of two possible outcomes. Viva Manolete!

As for the comments of Hemingway's attire, I don't think he really had any style at all. He probably would just roll out of bed in the morning after a night of inebriation and then put on the same cigar smelling shirt. Today he would eat cold pizza for breakfast from last night's delivery.

Cheers,

M8
 

HadleyH

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,811
Location
Top of the Hill
Martinis at 8 said:
Well he's not my Papa! I don't really hate him anyways.

So what do you think of Hemingway's love of tauromaquia (bullfighting).



M8


I didn't say he was YOUR Papa Martini, so cool it ! ;)

What I think of bullfighting is this : @*&########>><<@@^^^

Cheers to you.
 

Martinis at 8

Practically Family
Messages
710
Location
Houston
HadleyH said:
I didn't say he was YOUR Papa Martini, so cool it ! ;)

What I think of bullfighting is this : @*&########>><<@@^^^

Cheers to you.

I didn't say you said he was MY Papa, so cool it back to ya! ;) I said he's not my Papa. And what I am wondering is how he picked up that tag. Like some literary types think he's some metaphorical father to us all in the world? Who thinks up these things?

I do find his love of tauromaquia to be one of his better qualities and I think he wrote well about it, though perhaps it was a parody of Dominguin's love affair with Ava Gardner. What to do you think?

Cheers,

M8
 

HadleyH

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,811
Location
Top of the Hill
Martinis at 8 said:
I do find his love of tauromaquia to be one of his better qualities and I think he wrote well about it, though perhaps it was a parody of Dominguin's love affair with Ava Gardner. What to do you think?

Cheers,

M8

Well, Dominguin's affair with Ava Gardner ,my eye... :)
Bullfighting is simply repulsive to me.
Sorry, that's the way I feel about it.
 

jake_fink

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,279
Location
Taranna
Marc Chevalier said:
With one big exception: "The Snows of Kilimanjaro," written for Esquire in 1936.
.

True.

Marc Chevalier said:
In 1935, Hemingway was not perceived as washed up -- his "letters from Bimini" and short stories were in great demand (and generally well reviewed), and the big magazines were paying huge sums for them.
.

His critical reputation was at its lowest in his lifetime, even lower than it was in the fifties. He was still a commercial success, in fact people bought lots and lots fo copies of Green Hills.. and his Harry Morgan stories were lapped up. (I think they are some of his worst.) A lot of the people who had been Hemingway supporters in the twenties had turned away from him while Fitzgerald had become a figure of great pathos.

Hemingway Jones said:
In 1937, Hemingway begins For Whom The Bell Tolls, certainly my favorite book and perhaps (arguably) his best.

It's a good one, but my favourite is still the In Our Time followed closely by Men Without Women, two pitch perfect collections of stories that all work well on their own but work best as collections.

jamespowers said:
Thank goodness you posted that. :eusa_clap I am not the only one who thinks he was a bum. It was getting lonely out here. :D

His work may not be your cup of tea, but I don't think it's fair to call him a bum. He worked very hard at his craft and took literature very, very seriously. He was a rigorous intellect but also managed to live a full material life - in fact the two were not easily separated for him.

Now, if you'd called him a misogynist, or a homophobe, or a racist... then I'd have had trouble jumping to his defense.
 

AlanC

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,175
Location
Heart of America
Mark me down as 'none of the above'--I'm a Faulkner man.

faulkner20portraitgs3.gif


faulknerfedorabj2.jpg


And my favorite:

faulknercj8.jpg
 

Forum statistics

Threads
109,022
Messages
3,072,920
Members
54,037
Latest member
GloriaJama
Top