fitted G-1 / M422a options

[Marv]

Hi Deacon,

Long time no...er...'see'. How are you doing?

You know, I'd love to get my hands on one of those Eastman's in my size just to see what they're like. They look nice.

The Aero gets criticized sometimes for not being an 'authentic' replica, but Ken used a Gordon & Fergusson pattern for the first one he sent me (how can you get more authentic than that?), but there was a strange proportion, well, distortion isn't the right word, but the original G&F patterns for a size 50 (I'm a 48, but these WW2 era M442a/G-1s are proper trim) didn't suit my body shape.

I'm not Adonis by any measure, but you'd have to have the physique of Arnold Schwazenegger to have fit that; trim waist and big muscular shoulders and forearms.
Ken said that it was popular in Germany, and I can see some guys wearing one after their everyday iron pumping session.

So, after seeing pics of me wearing it, Ken consulted with John Chapman, who recommended that the Willis & Giger pattern would offer me a better fit. It is perfect.

Looking at your pic of you wearing your Eastman here, I would say that my Aero size 50 fits about the same around the shoulders and chest as your 48 Eastman does on you (and the same as all my issue E-series G-1s in a size 48), but from the chest down is a much trimmer fit.

The collar seems fine to me. I'm guessing that collar widths are the same for all sizes, so on a large size like mine, doesn't seem wide at all. In fact, it's not as wide as the collar on my Lost Worlds G-1 (which is the trimmest G-1 I own, very trim all through the body, and the sleeves, high arm openings- looks great though).
The belt on the back doesn't seem wide to me either, but maybe on a smaller sized jacket it might seem different?

The quality of the goat and the workmanship are great. Ken offered me a choice of seal browns, and I chose the darkest, it's nice, and Ken pays attention to things like making sure it's the correct weight.

I'd like to get two more in the future, that's how good it is.

I think the best thing would be if I ask my wife to take some photos at the weekend of me wearing the Aero, the LW, and the E-series, and then you'll be able to see how they compare.

My Eastman 55J14 G1......

 

[Big J]

My Eastman 55J14 G1......

Marv, that does look really nice. I really like the way it's developed character.

 

[Edward]

If I was in peak physical fitness, with weeks of war-time physical training under my belt like a recruit straight out of high school, yeah, maybe it would be fine. But I'm 43, and fighting everyday not to get fatter. I got a 49 inch chest, and a 40 inch waist. My doctor tells me that waist measurement should be 10 inches less than chest as a general rule for men, so I think my size 50 Aero fits just fine.

Ha, well... you're doing better than me. My waist and chest evened out not so long ago. I'll be happy if I can get back down to a 6" difference between the two and keep there.

The 42 would be a bit tight on my shoulders but wearable if I was in my twenties and had my 32" waist back, but I can't see that happening any time soon. The last time I managed to get down to that size, I looked fresh out of Belsen.

FWIW.... I handled some of the ELC jackets recently - a couple of M422as and G1s. Lovely stuff, really nice goathide (felt very similar to the stuff Aero uses). I certainly wouldn't turn one of these down for the right deal, though equally I'm not convinced they're worth the GBP100 or so more than Aero charges. I'd put them on a par with each other, myself. The ELCs, of course, have the avantage of being available OTR, so forf somebody who absolutely must have one now, the price differnece might matter less.

 

[HPA Rep]

My Eastman 55J14 G1......

Nice, Marv! You have what I have in my personal Eastman G-1 jacket, which is the older Eastman 55-J-14 G-1 style with the scalloped pocket flaps, heavy grain, and the rustier-colored collar fur. I don't know why they changed the shape of the pockets other than to be new for newness sake; I really prefer the shape you have and that Eastman made since the early 1990s.

The new collar fur is definitely darker and less rusty, and it's ask more silky than nubbly or curly. All-in-all, vive la difference! But it's nice to see another old-timer jacket ...

 

[HPA Rep]

This one?

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/show...liate-Thread&p=1751446&viewfull=1#post1751446

That is the one, Big J! That was the from the first batch of the revamped M-422As.

 

[HPA Rep]

I will say, I've never seen it in person but I've always liked that what appears to be a more medium brown shade of goatskin on the Eastman M-422a jacket.

I'm a WWII guy at heart, so the M-422A is more my thing and color is part of the reason. The Eastman M-422A I have was made from a goatskin batch that was something quite special I never saw before or after mine arrived, which was 1999. Just an odd batch that was quite special and I got lucky, I suppose. I'd never part with it because, well, I have no reason to, plus it's irreplaceable and special to me; lots of memories in it and it was part of six jackets Gary made me as payment for helping him with the old "Golden Book" catalog that premiered in 1998. Boy, those were fun days ...

 

[HPA Rep]

Hey J, how do you find the accuracy of the Aero? Looking on the website, I have always thought that the Aero G-1 didn't look quite right. Big collar, wide back belt, that sort of thing.

I have really come to like my Eastman G-1. My only complaints being the initial stiffness and the wear on the zipper area coming therefrom. But the fit, while trim, has got to be the best fitting G-1 I have ever owned.

Actually, although I find the leather to be a bit floppy, the Cockpit I tried in Pensacola also had a pretty nice military cut.


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Sure looks great on you, Deacon!

 

[Deacon211]

Sure looks great on you, Deacon!

Thanks Charles! I've only worn it two seasons now, but it's broken in nicely. I too prefer the more scalloped pockets to the angular ones and, though my collar is more brown than rust, I really dig that reddish collar that you guys have!

@Big J.

I'd love to see some pics of your Aero. Personally, from the reports of you and others, I think the jacket is underrepresented by the pictures of it hanging on the rack. I'd love to see it "in the wild" or at least fleshed out on a form to better appreciate it.


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[devilish]

Here are a couple of my Good Wear L.W. Foster 55-J-14. This is an early one and John has since revised the pattern a little but it is indeed a very 'inverted pyramid' type shape. I've lost about 30lbs since this photo so it fits much better now. Especially around the torso. Apologies if you've seen these photos before.

 

[HPA Rep]

Here are a couple of my Good Wear L.W. Foster 55-J-14. This is an early one and John has since revised the pattern a little but it is indeed a very 'inverted pyramid' type shape. I've lost about 30lbs since this photo so it fits much better now. Especially around the torso. Apologies if you've seen these photos before.

Absolutely beautiful! And you appear to be into raptors, which are also beautiful!!!

 

[Marv]

Thanks Charles, not sure what year my G1 was manufactured but I picked it up second hand in 2006, new condition for the grand some of £55.00 so this has always been my best ever deal when picking up used jackets.

 

[thor]

Hi Deacon,

Long time no...er...'see'. How are you doing?

You know, I'd love to get my hands on one of those Eastman's in my size just to see what they're like. They look nice.

The Aero gets criticized sometimes for not being an 'authentic' replica, but Ken used a Gordon & Fergusson pattern for the first one he sent me (how can you get more authentic than that?), but there was a strange proportion, well, distortion isn't the right word, but the original G&F patterns for a size 50 (I'm a 48, but these WW2 era M442a/G-1s are proper trim) didn't suit my body shape.

I'm not Adonis by any measure, but you'd have to have the physique of Arnold Schwazenegger to have fit that; trim waist and big muscular shoulders and forearms.
Ken said that it was popular in Germany, and I can see some guys wearing one after their everyday iron pumping session.

So, after seeing pics of me wearing it, Ken consulted with John Chapman, who recommended that the Willis & Giger pattern would offer me a better fit. It is perfect.

Looking at your pic of you wearing your Eastman here, I would say that my Aero size 50 fits about the same around the shoulders and chest as your 48 Eastman does on you (and the same as all my issue E-series G-1s in a size 48), but from the chest down is a much trimmer fit.

The collar seems fine to me. I'm guessing that collar widths are the same for all sizes, so on a large size like mine, doesn't seem wide at all. In fact, it's not as wide as the collar on my Lost Worlds G-1 (which is the trimmest G-1 I own, very trim all through the body, and the sleeves, high arm openings- looks great though).
The belt on the back doesn't seem wide to me either, but maybe on a smaller sized jacket it might seem different?

The quality of the goat and the workmanship are great. Ken offered me a choice of seal browns, and I chose the darkest, it's nice, and Ken pays attention to things like making sure it's the correct weight.

I'd like to get two more in the future, that's how good it is.

I think the best thing would be if I ask my wife to take some photos at the weekend of me wearing the Aero, the LW, and the E-series, and then you'll be able to see how they compare.

So, Aero has different patterns for their M-422a jackets? This seems a bit confusing since they don't specify this in their description; they go through the effort to make a jacket for a customer, presumably using their standard (?) G&F pattern, ship it out, see that it doesn't fit quite right and then build a second jacket using a different (W&G) pattern? Is the G&F pattern more boxy/square and the W&G more tapered or slender? If two different fit patterns are available, shouldn't they specify this in the description and perhaps offer two distinctly different M-422a jackets?

 

[Big J]

So, Aero has different patterns for their M-422a jackets? This seems a bit confusing since they don't specify this in their description; they go through the effort to make a jacket for a customer, presumably using their standard (?) G&F pattern, ship it out, see that it doesn't fit quite right and then build a second jacket using a different (W&G) pattern? Is the G&F pattern more boxy/square and the W&G more tapered or slender? If two different fit patterns are available, shouldn't they specify this in the description and perhaps offer two distinctly different M-422a jackets?

Hi Thor,

Wife and kids out of the house, so I can reply to you in peace now.

I want to start by saying that in the case of WW2 A-2's, there are plenty of guys on the Lounge who understand the differences in the pattern and the fit of different manufacturers contracts (both real and repro). Whenever I look at different contract/maker A-2s, all I notice are pocket flap shapes, and whether or not there is a collar stand, but there are significant differences in the various patterns. Some of these differences are very subtle (size and placing of armholes, and how that accommodates expansion across the back in reaching forward), and some are more noticeable if a jacket of the same size is worn by the same guy (for example, early contract Aero jackets are really trim in the body, later contracts are looser).

On smaller size jackets, all of these pattern differences are hard to detect for the untrained eye- we are talking differences of only a few cm's here and there. But when you get to the top of the size range, a 2cm difference between two manufacturers patterns at size 42 becomes much more noticeable as (say) 5cm's on a size 50.

I think that this is one topic that really shows how relatively few M442 jackets were produced V's A-2s. Maybe there are some collectors out there with a great range of original wartime M442s in their own size, that could step in and explain all the fit differences between manufacturers? But to my knowledge, only John Chapman has that degree of insight on the matter. As a result, this is an area that is often overlooked for discussion here on the Lounge. John, I know that you occasionally post here, so I'd be delighted to hear your opinion on the matter, but I guess you are very busy working on your great jackets!

So, to get back to my experience with Aero on the matter, with a measured chest of 48/49 inches (depends on the season, I can't eat in Japan in the summer), following consultation with Aero, I ordered their M442a in a size 50, with an extra inch to body and sleeve length (just like I did for all my Aero A-2s and B-3).

The jacket arrived, but the fit wasn't good for me. It was a very good, trim fit around the waist (which I think is period accurate- we know that later G-1s -like the re-introduced A-2 -became baggy over the years) but from the chest up seemed oversized to me. It would have been impossible for me to fill out the shoulders, chest, and upper arms. I took some fit pics and ranted at Aero that the fit wasn't good.

Now, credit where credit is due, Aero very patiently listened to my complaint, and very kindly offered to remake my jacket for a better fit.
They could have just replied that they gave me the jacket I ordered, end of story, but they didn't.

Ken personally mailed me many times (at a time that I now know was extremely busy and stressful for him) and personally did everything possible to make this right for me. The are not words to describe how generous his level of customer care was in this matter.

From discussions with Ken, I learned that whilst Aero was not offering their M442a as a Gordon & Fergusson reproduction, that was the pattern that they were using, and that the patterns at a size 50 have pronounced differences to the patterns at a smaller size. This is to say, that when the original G&F patterns were made, then didn't just add an extra (say) 2% to the size of every panel in every direction to make a larger jacket size, but that the patterns show increases in different panels (different parts of panels) as you increase the size. It's not simply a case of 'enlarging' a smaller pattern uniformly.

Now, with A-2s, there are so few panels in the jacket, that I'd guessing proportional and dimensional differences between small and larger jackets are pretty unnoticeable, but on a complicated jacket like the M442a, there are many panels, all of which can be made larger or re-shaped to create a larger size without having to enlarge the whole jacket uniformly.

As a result, this multitude of panels on M442s, combined with different original manufacturers practices regarding making larger size patterns seems to be the cause of fit differences between manufacturers at a larger size.

Now Ken said that Aero had shipped many of these large size M442as to Germany, and that they'd been very popular, and that I'd been the first to complain about their fit (hence my comment before about German body-builders).

I want to stress, that although this jacket didn't look good on me, it was a 100% honest reproduction of a wartime pattern, and in that aspect was 100% authentic, and again, Aero could have told me to get lost.

However, Ken consulted with John Chapman. John had Willis & Giger patterns for M442a, and suggested to Ken that at the larger end of the sizing spectrum, the cut of the W&G would offer a better fit around my upper body.

So, what Ken actually did was make me a new jacket that was a combination of both patterns- G&F around the torso, W&G around the upper body.

It is an amazing jacket, I love it, and it is frequently admired by others (some guy in a Real McCoys G-1 followed me into a coffee shop to ask me about it a couple of months back).

I would order two more as soon as I am able.

N.B. If Ken or Denny want to chip in on this, that would be fine, I don't have expert knowledge as to how these patterns work, I'm just putting together what I've heard/seen.

Now this was all a year ago. It is not my understanding that Aero is offering two different M442a repros (a G&F and a W&G), and it's my understanding that these proportion issues with the G&F pattern only become apparent at the largest sizes, so maybe Aero continue to use the G&F for orders as a matter of course (and why not, they were great jackets) unless the customer orders a 48 or a 50 (or something), and maybe then they'd want to check measurements more carefully, maybe see a customer photo, I don't know honestly, but Ken's a really smart guy, I'm sure he's got it all worked out.

* Again, to Ken and Denny, if I'm getting any of this wrong, please correct me.

 

[Fanch]

Big J that was an interesting post. No matter how accurate a repro is, if the jacket doesn't fit ... [huh]

Also kudos to Ken who helped you and helped me immensely when I was in the process of ordering my Teamster. His sense of proportion is incredible, and he seemed to have limitless patience with me as I went back and forth with sizing, buttons, linings, etc.

 

[Big J]

Big J that was an interesting post. No matter how accurate a repro is, if the jacket doesn't fit ... [huh]

Also kudos to Ken who helped you and helped me immensely when I was in the process of ordering my Teamster. His sense of proportion is incredible, and he seemed to have limitless patience with me as I went back and forth with sizing, buttons, linings, etc.

Couldn't agree more.
On a professional level, Ken really knows his trade inside and out. That kind of skill only comes from years of practice (I remember reading an interview with John Chapman where he explained that in the beginning he had to teach himself everything).
Based on my experiences as a customer, Ken has clearly perfected his art- one look at a photo of me, and he knows what to change.

You can have all the money in the world, and all the patterns and machinists, but Kens got a skill for getting fit right that only comes from years of actually doing it.

 

[thor]

Wow! That's a great tale Big J, and one I'm glad to see had a satisfactory conclusion! Aero/Ken certainly went the extra mile to get it right. Kudo's to all involved! That is some first class customer service!!!
Thanks for filling us in on the details; fascinating story.
The M-422a is my all-time favorite jacket and any thread that mentions this iconic jacket is of keen interest to me. Appreciate the detailed reply.
Wear your jacket in good health!

 

[Big J]

Wow! That's a great tale Big J, and one I'm glad to see had a satisfactory conclusion! Aero/Ken certainly went the extra mile to get it right. Kudo's to all involved! That is some first class customer service!!!
Thanks for filling us in on the details; fascinating story.
The M-422a is my all-time favorite jacket and any thread that mentions this iconic jacket is of keen interest to me. Appreciate the detailed reply.
Wear your jacket in good health!

The M442/G-1 jackets are style classics.
In an age of oversized mall clothes (which even the A-2 has influenced), they are undervalued and unappreciated IMHO.

 

[Big J]

Big J that was an interesting post. No matter how accurate a repro is, if the jacket doesn't fit ... [huh]

Also kudos to Ken who helped you and helped me immensely when I was in the process of ordering my Teamster. His sense of proportion is incredible, and he seemed to have limitless patience with me as I went back and forth with sizing, buttons, linings, etc.

For real, Ken was really good about the whole thing, and he is really good at what he does. That's not the kind of skill you can just study, that's an art; you gotta have a feel for it.
My wife was an award winning fashion designer in a previous life, and way back, before we got married, I remember how many weeks she would spend working on one dress, to fit one model, to wear once. It's nowhere near as easy as it looks.

 

[Big J]

You know Thor, I'd love to see Aero make repros of the USN Transport Coat and the USN shearling jackets.

The WW2 USN had the most astute designers behind their uniforms of any armed service ever.

 

[Edward]

I'd love to have one of those USN transport coats. Dinerman's was the first I saw, but since discovered that Eddie Cochran wore one (which naturally has hugely upped the desirability factor for me. Hugely.).