first quality-repro leather jacket

[thedebonair]

Hello all, I've been going through different posts for a while now, and finally decided to make my own account. That being said, I'd like to purchase my first leather repro jacket. As someone who is deeply interested in WW2 I appreciate the history these jackets come with, even if they're brand new and they look stunning. I've already done a lot of research on different contracts and types of jackets, but I cannot seem to decide whether to first buy an A-2 or an M422(a). The bill kelso Willis and Geiger looks absolutely spectacular, but the eastman A-2's look the part as well. I look forward to reading your different opinions and thoughts on the matter!

 

[Edward]

I'd decide which you want to go for first, then decide which manufacturer you prefer, as different folks tend to have different opinions as to who does the best A2 or M442a - any one person might recommend a different manufacturer for each. Or even for different A2 contracts. That said, while there are at least half a dozen companies will make you a cracking jacket based on either model, it's also worth paying attention, imo, to what folks have to say about customer service. There's some companies I'd probably only buy jackets from used as they have an earned reputation for being difficult, others I might not want at all. Your opinions may vary, as do everybody's, of course. Read as many as you can and then make your own decision.

Also - do you want a specific contract jacket, or does it just need to be generally period-correct? Sometimes going with a house-jacket can be a substantial saving on the contracts, and if it doesn't really matter to you, outside of Farbe reenactor types, nobosy else will notice, and anyone who would make a thing of that doesn't have an opinion of any value. Which is not to say that contract repros are a bad thing - I love that they are available - just that this is your jacket and should be about what *you* want, not what other people think.

Eastman do nice jackets, though the price is much higher than it was a few years ago. Goodwear are something else, though you have to be prepared for the long wait. Aero's A2s were considered to be lacking in accuracy at one point by some, but since 2012 Ken has made significant revisions to the patterns, especially those that were original Aero Beaconsfield contracts, and they are very sharp now. (My own next milspecjacket will be an Aero M422a.)

Worth deciding what hide you want too - horse or goat (personally I prefer goat for these military jackets, as it breaks in without showing the sort of wear that just looks wrong on a military jacket to my eye). I have both an Aero goat A2 and an ELC in horse; the ELC is eventually going to be sold because I only ever really wore the Aero.

Think about whether you want any insignia on it (easier done when the jacket is being made - just less hassle, really). Most folks tend to prefer a plain jacket for their first, as it's more generally 'wearable'. Do you care hat comments others might make if it's decorated? Not everyone enjoys having morons shout 'Top Gun' at them in the street, for example. If you don't care and you want a patched and painted jacket, though, then go for it.


Lastly - and this relates to my 'house jacket' point too - I would think very seriously about how much 'accuracy' matters to you. Me, I'd never settle for having a less than preferred knit colour, for instance, just because 'correct', but then I'm not a reenactor. Other folks it would bother terribly to have a contract number with a kit colour they knew was never issued. So yet again it ll comes down to what *you* want.


PS.... always worth trawling ebay for a used example - my Aero and Eastman together cost much less than a new jacket now, and it mean I could try both options which I couldn't have afforded to do buying new.

 

[thedebonair]

I'd decide which you want to go for first, then decide which manufacturer you prefer, as different folks tend to have different opinions as to who does the best A2 or M442a - any one person might recommend a different manufacturer for each. Or even for different A2 contracts. That said, while there are at least half a dozen companies will make you a cracking jacket based on either model, it's also worth paying attention, imo, to what folks have to say about customer service. There's some companies I'd probably only buy jackets from used as they have an earned reputation for being difficult, others I might not want at all. Your opinions may vary, as do everybody's, of course. Read as many as you can and then make your own decision.

Also - do you want a specific contract jacket, or does it just need to be generally period-correct? Sometimes going with a house-jacket can be a substantial saving on the contracts, and if it doesn't really matter to you, outside of Farbe reenactor types, nobosy else will notice, and anyone who would make a thing of that doesn't have an opinion of any value. Which is not to say that contract repros are a bad thing - I love that they are available - just that this is your jacket and should be about what *you* want, not what other people think.

Eastman do nice jackets, though the price is much higher than it was a few years ago. Goodwear are something else, though you have to be prepared for the long wait. Aero's A2s were considered to be lacking in accuracy at one point by some, but since 2012 Ken has made significant revisions to the patterns, especially those that were original Aero Beaconsfield contracts, and they are very sharp now. (My own next milspecjacket will be an Aero M422a.)

Worth deciding what hide you want too - horse or goat (personally I prefer goat for these military jackets, as it breaks in without showing the sort of wear that just looks wrong on a military jacket to my eye). I have both an Aero goat A2 and an ELC in horse; the ELC is eventually going to be sold because I only ever really wore the Aero.

Think about whether you want any insignia on it (easier done when the jacket is being made - just less hassle, really). Most folks tend to prefer a plain jacket for their first, as it's more generally 'wearable'. Do you care hat comments others might make if it's decorated? Not everyone enjoys having morons shout 'Top Gun' at them in the street, for example. If you don't care and you want a patched and painted jacket, though, then go for it.


Lastly - and this relates to my 'house jacket' point too - I would think very seriously about how much 'accuracy' matters to you. Me, I'd never settle for having a less than preferred knit colour, for instance, just because 'correct', but then I'm not a reenactor. Other folks it would bother terribly to have a contract number with a kit colour they knew was never issued. So yet again it ll comes down to what *you* want.


PS.... always worth trawling ebay for a used example - my Aero and Eastman together cost much less than a new jacket now, and it mean I could try both options which I couldn't have afforded to do buying new.

Wow... a lot of knowledge in 1 post. Thank you edward! As an answer to your questions: I am looking for something I can wear most of the time, the kind of jacket that you just put on because it just feels good to do so time and time again. That's also why I'm still struggling to decide on the jacket itself, although i have narrowed it down to these two styles. I do want a historically 'accurate' jacket, but an imperfect contract label or such is not a dealbreaker to me. The only reason I'd actually look for a specific contract is for the fit, as I like my jacket to be quite a trimmed fit. My personal preference and style will be my first priority, specific contracts and details second. Most of all, I want the leather and fit to be sublime. Eastman has also caught my attention but I'm kind of put off by the fact that they only do regular sizes, without the possibility to have your jacket custom tailored to your size. I do not know whether this is a big deal of course, as I have no previous experience in this field, and leather molds itself to your body. I would certainly like a jacket with insignia for later on, as that one will have more of a 'meaning' aspect and less of a 'style' aspect. But I couldn't wear that everyday, so a plain jacket would be my first choice. Another important factor for me is the fact that i have to be able to wear the jacket with dressed up attire too, not only with jeans. Are there any jackets you would recommend to start with? The brand doesn't matter. Thank you again for your wonderfully elaborate response.

 

[Seb Lucas]

The main thing is that the jacket fits well. Doesn't matter how well it is made if it fits poorly. What I have learned here is that you can get a generic Cockpit USA G1, just as a for instance, and if it fits trim, it looks almost as good as a top tier repro.

 

[nick123]

Perhaps you’d consider the pros and cons of the 22a’s mouton collar and rayon lining. What kind of a climate do you live in? I find the Navy jackets with fur collars to be a little warmer than the A-2, and the rayon will trap heat a little better (in my opinion). If you live where it’s a little warmer go for the A-2.

Also, you’re about as young as I was when I started this hobby (maybe I was 23), and my jacket collection has changed hands many times over, so keep in mind this probably won’t be your last/only jacket as tastes and body dimensions do change.

I like them both and have owned both by each maker. My vote goes to an A-2 but not trimmed to allow for future growth.

 

[Grayland]

The main thing is that the jacket fits well. Doesn't matter how well it is made if it fits poorly. What I have learned here is that you can get a generic Cockpit USA G1, just as a for instance, and if it fits trim, it looks almost as good as a top tier repro.

Agreed. If it fits nice, you will like and you will wear it.

 

[thedebonair]

Perhaps you’d consider the pros and cons of the 22a’s mouton collar and rayon lining. What kind of a climate do you live in? I find the Navy jackets with fur collars to be a little warmer than the A-2, and the rayon will trap heat a little better (in my opinion). If you live where it’s a little warmer go for the A-2.

Also, you’re about as young as I was when I started this hobby (maybe I was 23), and my jacket collection has changed hands many times over, so keep in mind this probably won’t be your last/only jacket as tastes and body dimensions do change.

I like them both and have owned both by each maker. My vote goes to an A-2 but not trimmed to allow for future growth.

I live in Belgium, it can get quite cold up here during winter but early fall/late spring tends to be rather mild up here. The A-2 would give me more occasions to wear it, whereas the M422a is confined to fall/winter season. The reason I'm also interested in an M422a is the trimmed comfortable fit, with half-belt and bi-swing back.

 

[thedebonair]

another question that is on my mind: are the eastman jackets worth the extra cost when compared to aero's and BK?

 

[Mich486]

I live in Belgium, it can get quite cold up here during winter but early fall/late spring tends to be rather mild up here. The A-2 would give me more occasions to wear it, whereas the M422a is confined to fall/winter season. The reason I'm also interested in an M422a is the trimmed comfortable fit, with half-belt and bi-swing back.

The m422a is not a winter jacket. More precisely, I don’t think it’s comfortable wearing it under 8/9 C. The trim fit also doesnt allow a lot of layering. Don’t let the fur collar fool you.


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[Seb Lucas]

Yes - leather jackets are not colder weather wear full stop unless they have a great insulating lining.

 

[thedebonair]

The m422a is not a winter jacket. More precisely, I don’t think it’s comfortable wearing it under 8/9 C. The trim fit also doesnt allow a lot of layering. Don’t let the fur collar fool you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I see your point, but isn't the fur collar too warm in fall/spring? or does one not notice that it's there if the collar doesn't stand up?

 

[jacketjunkie]

I see your point, but isn't the fur collar too warm in fall/spring? or does one not notice that it's there if the collar doesn't stand up?

You barely notice it except for how comfortable it feels on your neck. Warmth-wise the collar doesn't make a noticeable difference from what I have experienced. The warmth of the jacket for the largest part depends on the lining. Imagine a normal jacket with a bit of fleece in the neck area to feel nicer on the skin.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Leather is basically an expensive or stylish windbreaker - you either layer underneath (so it needs to be less trim fitting) or you get a warm lining.

 

[Monitor]

You barely notice it except for how comfortable it feels on your neck. Warmth-wise the collar doesn't make a noticeable difference from what I have experienced. The warmth of the jacket for the largest part depends on the lining. Imagine a normal jacket with a bit of fleece in the neck area to feel nicer on the skin.

That.

I'll just note that as much as I love fur collars, they become really annoying when it's raining and snowing. Especially if it's snowing as all the snowflakes get caught in the fur and you have to dust it off all the time.
Otherwise, the fur collar won't make much difference either way but it does feel nice on the neck and it looks cool.

 

[thedebonair]

You barely notice it except for how comfortable it feels on your neck. Warmth-wise the collar doesn't make a noticeable difference from what I have experienced. The warmth of the jacket for the largest part depends on the lining. Imagine a normal jacket with a bit of fleece in the neck area to feel nicer on the skin.

Sounds good, I also think the collar itself looks really good in its own right, besides the extra comfort

 

[GregGale]

Some points I'd like to share from my own experience:

1) Eastman A-2 are the bee's knees. If you buy one, go for the original contracts. The Star Sportswear is quite a trim fitting one, that's what I have too.

2) If you don't want to go for an original contract, I wouldn't buy from such expensive makers.

3) If you want a jacket that is affordable but fits well, I can recommend AVI's Bronco - as reviewed here:
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/avi-lthr-bronco-a-2-jacket-review-pics.92117/

4) I have an ELC A-2 and an AVI G-1. The G-1 is heavier, sturdier and warmer. Not only because of the fur collar. It looks bad@ss, a real flying jacket. Indestructible goatskin, super comfortable thanks to the bi-swing back, even though it's a trim fit. It's much more functional than the A-2. The A-2 on the other hand looks more elegant with its shirt collar. I guess it's more versatile for different occasions too, however, it's not a comfy design. It will be a tad restrictive when moving the arms, and the sleeves may ride up when driving, unless of course you go up a size, but that ruins the looks IMO. I can wear my A-2 on colder summer evenings, but also in November with a thin sweater underneath. I can't imagine wearing my G-1 in the summer, unless I'm by the sea where it's windy.

I hope this helped.

 

[thedebonair]

Some points I'd like to share from my own experience:

1) Eastman A-2 are the bee's knees. If you buy one, go for the original contracts. The Star Sportswear is quite a trim fitting one, that's what I have too.

2) If you don't want to go for an original contract, I wouldn't buy from such expensive makers.

3) If you want a jacket that is affordable but fits well, I can recommend AVI's Bronco - as reviewed here:
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/avi-lthr-bronco-a-2-jacket-review-pics.92117/

4) I have an ELC A-2 and an AVI G-1. The G-1 is heavier, sturdier and warmer. Not only because of the fur collar. It looks bad@ss, a real flying jacket. Indestructible goatskin, super comfortable thanks to the bi-swing back, even though it's a trim fit. It's much more functional than the A-2. The A-2 on the other hand looks more elegant with its shirt collar. I guess it's more versatile for different occasions too, however, it's not a comfy design. It will be a tad restrictive when moving the arms, and the sleeves may ride up when driving, unless of course you go up a size, but that ruins the looks IMO. I can wear my A-2 on colder summer evenings, but also in November with a thin sweater underneath. I can't imagine wearing my G-1 in the summer, unless I'm by the sea where it's windy.

I hope this helped.

Greg, thanks for sharing this! At the moment i'm doubting whether to go for an eastman or a bill kelso. Contracts are important to me, as personally I think there is way more to these jackets than just the great looking aspect of it. I already have a suede jacket for the warmer days, so the one I'm going for now will be my fall and winter "daily driver". That being said, I probably will not stop at just 1 jacket. Either style is iconic and a must-have for flying jacket fans, so they'll both end up in my closet sometime in the future

 

[Edward]

Wow... a lot of knowledge in 1 post. Thank you edward! As an answer to your questions: I am looking for something I can wear most of the time, the kind of jacket that you just put on because it just feels good to do so time and time again. That's also why I'm still struggling to decide on the jacket itself, although i have narrowed it down to these two styles. I do want a historically 'accurate' jacket, but an imperfect contract label or such is not a dealbreaker to me. The only reason I'd actually look for a specific contract is for the fit, as I like my jacket to be quite a trimmed fit.

That helps narrow it down, certainly. In my experience, it's the earlier pre-war / pre-US entry into the war (Americans often refer to anything pre-1942 as 'pre-war', whereas in Europe, the war began in 1939. Doubtless, the Chinese put the date closer 1936.... but that's a whole nother can o' worms) that have the neater fits (though I've not tried on every contract). Also worth finding out which house jackets are slimmer.

My personal preference and style will be my first priority, specific contracts and details second. Most of all, I want the leather and fit to be sublime. Eastman has also caught my attention but I'm kind of put off by the fact that they only do regular sizes, without the possibility to have your jacket custom tailored to your size. I do not know whether this is a big deal of course, as I have no previous experience in this field, and leather molds itself to your body.

Yes, it's a different business model. You might argue that by sticking to off the rack sizes Eastman are closer the original idea of being issued with the QM's idea of what fit you, based on available stock. Eastman don't tend to do things like offer you mix and match knit colour against leather and such - unsurprisingly, as they've built their entire business reputation on doing repops, and the milspec fan crowd can be very unforgiving if they see something that's way off out there. (One of the amusing joys of this hobby is seeing guys in their middle fifties arguing over whose size 48 A2 is the most historically accurate...... yeah.....). Aero do great military jackets (the quality was always there, but the accuracy has improved greatly since Ken took over the reins again in 2012), but as they've really built their reputation more on their civilian jackets they are more open to variation, so they can work with you on measurements, knit colours, leather choice, even leather colour (Carrie at Insurrection in Seattle has a stunning A1 in navy blue Vicenza with cream knits). That's the sort of thing worth bearing in mind when you're looking to choose a manufacturer to buy from new. Neither approach is 'wrong' per se, but both are different, and so might suit different people.

I would certainly like a jacket with insignia for later on, as that one will have more of a 'meaning' aspect and less of a 'style' aspect. But I couldn't wear that everyday, so a plain jacket would be my first choice. Another important factor for me is the fact that i have to be able to wear the jacket with dressed up attire too, not only with jeans. Are there any jackets you would recommend to start with? The brand doesn't matter. Thank you again for your wonderfully elaborate response.

No problem, it's what these forums are for! A plain jacket sounds best for your first, then. I think both styles look good with a collar and tie (and I have worn both that way). I've long been a fan of that Howard Hughes look of 'suit with jacket replaced by leather'. There is also the third option - rarer, but it might suit your needs - of the ANJ3. Aero and a few others do a version of this. I had an Aero one I bought used for a while some years ago - it was very lovely indeed, but just too tight for me (whichever you go with, make sure to get advice on the fit - I need to go up a size or two in an M442a from what I can wear in an A2). The ANJ3 was never generally issued (it's a point of debate as to whether it was issued at all for field testing), but was intended to replace the A2 and the USN jackets both with a single design across both army and navy (hence 'ANJ'). It's essentially an M422a without the mouton collar, so if you like the neat fit and the look of the M422a but aren't sure about the mouton....

The main thing is that the jacket fits well. Doesn't matter how well it is made if it fits poorly. What I have learned here is that you can get a generic Cockpit USA G1, just as a for instance, and if it fits trim, it looks almost as good as a top tier repro.

Fit is definitely important - though there's trim and there's trim. Don't make the mistake of going *too* trim. Aside from there being no such thing as a single, "accurate" fit, historically speaking, I think it is fair to say that the A2 was always designed to be worn relatively neat - it was a uniform, and was, as standard, meant to be worn over the top of a shirt and tie. For this reason, I tend to prefer an A2 that fits that way, rather than one that is big enough for a sweater underneath, but looks 'wrong' without it - YMMV, of course. Just don't make the mistake of going too tight, or it'll look and feel odd. A maxim I learned from Herself when clothes shopping is: 'just because it does up doesn't mean it has to be the right fit'.

Needless to say, getting to try on a jacket first can be a great help. In the UK, Eastman do all the airshows and sell otr there; Aero you can visit the factory, or in the US going through Insurrection you can ask to be sent an Aero trial jacket to try it on for fit. (Here we're back to some of the variances between different manufacturers which may be part of your decision).

Perhaps you’d consider the pros and cons of the 22a’s mouton collar and rayon lining. What kind of a climate do you live in? I find the Navy jackets with fur collars to be a little warmer than the A-2, and the rayon will trap heat a little better (in my opinion). If you live where it’s a little warmer go for the A-2.

I'd agree with your observations on warmth. I have both an Aero A2 in goat with a silk lining, and an Aero AN6552 (basically an M442a with a later designation) in the same goat hide. The latter is noticeably warmer. Only by a fraction - on a day when I could just about still wear the A2, the non-breathable liner and fur collar on the USN jacket are enough to make it too warm to wear. Most of the time, though, it's not enough of a difference to really notice.

Also, you’re about as young as I was when I started this hobby (maybe I was 23), and my jacket collection has changed hands many times over, so keep in mind this probably won’t be your last/only jacket as tastes and body dimensions do change.

I like them both and have owned both by each maker. My vote goes to an A-2 but not trimmed to allow for future growth.

Also true - on both counts!

I live in Belgium, it can get quite cold up here during winter but early fall/late spring tends to be rather mild up here. The A-2 would give me more occasions to wear it, whereas the M422a is confined to fall/winter season. The reason I'm also interested in an M422a is the trimmed comfortable fit, with half-belt and bi-swing back.

Jinkies, you're hardier than me if you can take a Belgian Winter in an M422a!

another question that is on my mind: are the eastman jackets worth the extra cost when compared to aero's and BK?

Wholly and utterly subjective. If I was buying a new A2 today, I'd probably look first at Aero's Real Deal model. Eastman's prices across the board have pushed them in recent years beyond what I'm prepared to spend on a jacket - and TBH if I was considering putting that sort of money into an A2, I'd just get in the queue for a Goodwear already. Not that they aren't lovely, but GBP900-1300ish is just an awful lot more than I'd be prepared to spend on a basic leather jacket like an A2, and the sort of money you can have something as exclusive as a Goodwear for now. YMMV, of course. Eastman are able to charge what they do and get it, so clearly there are plenty of people who are prepared to pay those prices. Kelso I looked at a long time ago. It was at the point when they were selling off their original house jackets cheap to concentrate on the new, contract repros. I was between sizes, so emailed to ask whether I should go 42 or 44; the response email came in quite quickly, but was just a hard sell on a jacket "labelled a 40, but it's sized as a 42...". I decided to leave it at that point, also because BK Chose to talk up the hide they were using with the new jackets by, in part, saying how rubbish their old hides had been by comparison. When they later got into some more unpleasant public communications running down other manufacturers (while sending emails threatening to sue anyone who criticised them on forums), I decided I'd made a wise choice not to buy from them. Again, as ever, it's purely a personal choice - lots of people have and do buy Kelso jackets and enjoy them, and they certainly do make some nice jackets. Just not an approach to doing business that suits me as an individual customer - YMM, of course, V.

 

[Edward]

Yes - leather jackets are not colder weather wear full stop unless they have a great insulating lining.

Yip, the leather keeps the wind out, but it's the lining keeps the warmth in.

That.

I'll just note that as much as I love fur collars, they become really annoying when it's raining and snowing. Especially if it's snowing as all the snowflakes get caught in the fur and you have to dust it off all the time.
Otherwise, the fur collar won't make much difference either way but it does feel nice on the neck and it looks cool.

A mouton or sheepskin or furry collar of any description can feel a bit icky if it gets a soaking - though going out in that sort of rain is not a day I'd choose to wear an M442a anyhow.

If you're prone to a jacket chafing your neck if you wear it all day, then the mouton is great - that was, of course, the original design purpose behind having it there. (Some USAAF pilots, particularly in the CBI theatre, had a fur or sheepskin layer added to their A2 collars for this reason).

Sounds good, I also think the collar itself looks really good in its own right, besides the extra comfort

Definitely.

 

[GregGale]

As for ELC vs BK: ELC is more expensive, but you'll be 100% satisfied with the hide and quality. I've read some very negative reviews of BK's horsehide lately - then again, there are some positive ones too. Also, keep in mind that ELC accepts returns, whereas BK doesn't ,as far as I know. o if your ELC doen1t fit you can send it back for exchange, or you can order 2 and keep the one you prefer, and get reimbursed for the other one. ELC has popup stores too, next one is in November. There you can try all contracts/ sizes and see how they fit you.