Finest Cavanagh I'll never have...

[adamgottschalk]

Not long ago I lost a battle for a vintage, mint, black Cavanagh (see it at www.adamgottschalk.net/cavanagh.html ). Totally gorgeous hat, with that telltale supremo brim finish. Beginning of the last day it was at $25. I'm looking at the thing thinking, "That thing is so mint it's better than new. Spotless. With box. My size. I'm gonna bid plenty." Got to $65 later in the day, and I was still thinking I'd snipe it by placing an over-the-top bid. 5 minutes to go, I put down $115, thinking, '"There's no way...". I was just barely ahead. I quickly upped it to $135...and promptly lost. Final was $138.

My hat guy told me about Cavanagh the first time I met him. Obviously, Cavanagh is held in high esteem. Maybe it was this one that was particularly fine? I mean $138 for an old hat? Of course, you and I know about how well worth it that could be. But most folks? Someone out there knew exactly what they were looking at...and I thought _I_ was ready to pay out the nose. Where can a person find out more about Cavanagh, and about vintage hats in general?

 

[Not-Bogart13]

This is probably the best place to learn about hats in general. You've struck a goldmine here! I don't personally know that much, but that's one of the reasons I hang out here. Someone will have your answers. Try doing a search of the forum for "Cavanagh".

And you're in Art Fawcett's neck of the woods, so you don't have far to go when you need help resurrecting a beaten lid!

Speaking of lids (which we always do), I'm not a big fan of small brims, but I have to say, that hat in your avatar has found just the right face for it Welcome to the hunt.

 

[WEEGEE]

A Freak thang...

Sometimes things are such a deal and fair market is...well not the past

idea anymore on vintage.I don't think that hat should have fetched the price

it did...not the classic edge and all brim small. In the world...you just

happened on the right auction of the day where someone wanted a hat you

did as well.

better luck next.

:cheers1:

 

[MK]

.

Hi Adam. Welcome to the Lounge. It looks like you are in my neck of the woods. How much longer are you going to be in town?

 

[shamus]

It all depend on the day and who's on.

I was in the market for a panama hat.. I bid on a lot of them, but always got outbid. They were going for 50-100 for a nice vintage panama....

Then one day I see this lovely Cavanagh white panama with original box. I watch it and wait. As the time neared I bid. Nobody else bid. I got it for 15.00!

The next day some other panama went for 50+.

Maybe not tomorrow... but someday another one will come along and you'll get it for 40!

 

[adamgottschalk]

Hat for the face

This is probably the best place to learn about hats in general. You've struck a goldmine here! I don't personally know that much, but that's one of the reasons I hang out here. Someone will have your answers. Try doing a search of the forum for "Cavanagh".

And you're in Art Fawcett's neck of the woods, so you don't have far to go when you need help resurrecting a beaten lid!

Speaking of lids (which we always do), I'm not a big fan of small brims, but I have to say, that hat in your avatar has found just the right face for it Welcome to the hunt.

Thanks for the compliment. I actually spent some time thinking about and experimenting with what styles, brim widths, etc. look best on my face. I suppose if a person is going to take hats seriously they might ought to do that. But then I reckon anyone hangin around here has a natural sense of style.

 

[Mr. Rover]

Cavanagh was the first to patent the self-felted edge. I believe Art Fawcett or Matt Deckard can teach you the finer points of this style of brim edge, but basically instead of attaching a ribbon or welting with thread, the felt is folded over itself to create the extra crease at the end.
The reason why these hats are held to such high esteem is that each brim has to be perfect or else it is rejected. The brim will look off if the felt isn't folded perfectly. The felt is pretty nice, too.
There is a bit of a bias towards wider (as in 2 1/2" and above) brims on this forum, as was the most popular during the Hollywood Golden Ea, and personally, I find it more flattering. My ears are too wide for stingy brims, and my face looks better with a taller, lightly tapered crown.
I have a great admiration for the Rat Pack, but their suits, lapels, and hats just don't do it for me particularly.

 

[Not-Bogart13]

Is a Cavanagh edge always folded up, or are the ones folded downward also called Cavanagh edge?

 

[Nathan Flowers]

With a true Cavanagh edge, you can't see the fold. If you can see a fold (up, or down), it's called a welt.

 

[Mr. Rover]

The cavanagh edge is like the lip on a glass- there is no seam anywhere. It is a part of the the brim without any visible folding.

 

[MattC]

Three things made Cavanagh's great hats

The famous "edge" of course. The other two were outstanding workmanship and their amazing felt--incredibly smooth, incredibly dense. Once you've worn a Cav, you can recognize one just by touching it in the dark. As near as I can tell, Cavs. tended toward narrow brim hats for a long time. Even back in the 50s, I think you'll be hard pressed to find one with a brim more than 2 1/4" (excepting Homburgs and an few "open road" style hats).

They'll be more like this one, just be patient. I snagged a deep brown one that truly does look unworn for $25 a few weeks ago. I also paid $200 for a older hat in mint condition with a somewhat wider brim (2 1/4). I've never seen anything like the felt on that hat, even in vintage Borsos (a close 2nd). Try to make sure you get one with a brown sweat band. Cavanagh stayed with brown leather long after most hats went to black. Near the end, Cavs had black bands, but those hats are like the last Packards; just a shadow of what they were.

You can sometimes make a narrower brim hat look better on a wider face if you put a narrower ribbon on it. In the 60s, Cav. used ribbons over 2", which give you a real rat pack look. If you go down to 1 3/4 or so, and put a high C bash in the hat and a tall pinch in the front, you can get a look a lot like the narrow brim hats of the 30s.

Although it is right that there is no seam and no stitiching in a Cavanagh edge, the lip in the edge is always on the top of the brim. The Cav. edge actually is created by a foldover, but it is done in the felting process, so there is no separation between the lip and the rest of the brim, and no stitching. A while back, someone posted Cavanagh's patent application, which described the process.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

As near as I can tell, Cavs. tended toward narrow brim hats for a long time. Even back in the 50s, I think you'll be hard pressed to find one with a brim more than 2 1/4" (excepting Homburgs and an few "open road" style hats).

Below is an early Cavanagh (mid-1930s or so). It has an unusual 2 1/2" brim. Note the Cavanagh mark and the 1934 patent date on the inside of the leather sweatband.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Other hatmakers presented their own versions of the "Cavanagh edge." One manufacturer called it the "artistic edge."


Below is a '30s fedora by Disney Hats. Note the brim's edge:

 

[Mr. Rover]

i had a Knox 20 with their version of the cavanagh edge- I gave it to my friend because the crown was too short for me.

 

[MattC]

Just about everybody

Made a version of a Cav edge...at least the more expensive. By the 30s, Cav. Knox and Dobbs were one company, and they all had Cav edges. So did Stetson. I've never seen the lower end hats...Lee, Mallory, Champ..with Cav edges. But anyone who did it had to pay Cav, which had the patent.

 

[The real Henry]

My Mallory Fifteen has a Cav edge! I didn't know Mallory hats were the low quality part of vintage hats!