Fine Creek Leon

[Marc mndt]

I find monotone, thick pigment finishes pretty boring. Even on stuff like say freewheelers that everyone loves.

Again, have you handled any of these jackets in the flesh?

Freewheelers jackets have great color depth. I love the dead leaf brown Shinki they used for the Caboose. Anything but boring.

the newer formulas to me have more of a thick paint vibe that just comes off in unappealing chunks. (See 613sjh zipper area pic)

I could take a similar pic of the Buco.

 

[cbez]

Again, have you handled any of these jackets in the flesh?

Freewheelers jackets have great color depth. I love the dead leaf brown Shinki they used for the Caboose. Anything but boring.


I could take a similar pic of the Buco.

Yes.

Not trying to broad brush every fw jacket, just some of the pigment coated leathers they use I don't like.

 

[cbez]

BTW I have owned the dead leaf freewheelers too and while it was a beautiful leather I prefer the fc hides to it as well.

 

[Marc mndt]

The Fine Creek jackets that aren't leather versions of fabric or denim jackets tend to just have really weird or arguably just straight up bad patterns.

SpongeBob called, he wants his Fine Creek Tyler back.

 

[jeo]

Aiming this as my next jacket (I own a few Schotts atm), but can't decide between the different versions.

I do like the look of the Custom more than the Nostar, but as I understand, the Custom is just Nostar with pieces cut off. So if I find a Nostar version I could just cut the pieces off myself?

The older versions seem to be 2mm thick and never ones 1.3mm. Which would you prefer? I don't own or ride a bike so I guess the less thick version would be more reasonable. There is something about thicker leather though that just seems better and longer lasting to me though.

What’s your height and weight? Can you show us fit pics of you in your 519?

Just beware it’s long for an M/C style jacket. Depending on your body type and style it’ll either look great or really really bad, no in between.

If you’re tall and skinny and don’t have a classic/vintage aesthetic (mostly referring to high waisted pants) to your style you’ll look great in FCL.

Leather is pretty subjective some people will like certain hand feel, weight, grain types, color methods etc.

have really weird or arguably just straight up bad patterns.

…However, it has a much better pattern than the Leon or for that matter Schott Japan's earlier attempts at the design….

The current 613SJH has the same pattern as the 613SH (albeit one size smaller than the American equivalent) that Tom, myself, and a few others are very happy wearers of.

A similar vintage-styled jacket on the same pattern is the Schott Japan 110th anniversary jacket, which I own the prototype of. It's cowhide rather than horsehide, but it has a thin top coat for those who like fast ageing. (Personally, I would advise a bit of caution with it.)

Patterns need to be approached with the same subjective discernment as leather.

There are as many different shaped patterns as there are different shaped humans. There’s something for everyone.

There are patterns that are great for some and horrible for others. FCL patterns are great for a few, horrible for the rest.

Is it a bad pattern because it doesn’t fit a wide variety of people? Maybe, but you have to ask who are these jackets made for?

I’m 5’4” and weigh around 135-140 lbs. A lot of Japanese men who look great in FCL jackets tend to have the same shoulder and chest measurements as mine and weigh the same as me but they’ll be like 5’8”-5’9”. That’s who these jackets are made for.

also, to me, this pattern just looks terrible.

No, it looks terrible on HIM. Plenty of people have posted Schotts on this pattern block and it looks great.

 

[jeo]

SpongeBob called, he wants his Fine Creek Tyler back.

View attachment 582623 View attachment 582624

It’s not even straight all the way down lol! It bellows out a bit, kinda like some the LL jackets it’s based on.

 

[Aloysius]

Is it a bad pattern because it doesn’t fit a wide variety of people? Maybe, but you have to ask who are these jackets made for?

I’m 5’4” and weigh around 135-140 lbs. A lot of Japanese men who look great in FCL jackets tend to have the same shoulder and chest measurements as mine and weigh the same as me but they’ll be like 5’8”-5’9”. That’s who these jackets are made for.

The thing is I don't get who the stereotypical FCL Perfecto fit is for.

If someone is a skinny guy with narrow chest/shoulders, he probably doesn't have a beer gut, so why the wide hem/A-shape? It's not just FCL that does this; the baggy waist thing seems to be popular in a lot of Japanese fashion magazines; I just don't think it's flattering on anyone.

One of my Japanese friends got a Lewis and because he's a slim and tall guy, they talked him into getting the Japanese "tight" fit, only for him to discover upon receiving it that the "tight fit" actually meant a wider hem and narrow shoulders.

 

[cbez]

btw I'll reiterate what I said in a diff thread...I think people roast the weird FC patterns, but give the more established makers like schott/vanson a pass on their 80 turd patterns and focus on the handful of standout ones that 'we' like.

my hot take of the day

 

[jeo]

The thing is I don't get who the stereotypical FCL Perfecto fit is for.

Like I said, tall, skinny dudes. Seen plenty of those type of guys who look great in FCLs wide hem and all.

 

[Aloysius]

Like I said, tall, skinny dudes. Seen plenty of those type of guys who look great in FCLs wide hem and all.

Except I don't think they do look good in them. Yes, people will add that aesthetics are subjective, but there are some general principles of tailoring, fit, etc.

I can even appreciate the 80s/90s (and now revived) oversize, drop shoulder, etc even though I don't personally find it appealing. It is at least cohesive. Likewise the 70s super slim, which I also don't personally find appealing. But the skinny chest and flared hem look just looks bad, even on those tall skinny guys, and worse on the other guys.

Again, subjective whether it looks good or not, but from a tailoring/clothing lens I would say it's unflattering.

btw I'll reiterate what I said in a diff thread...I think people roast the weird FC patterns, but give the more established makers like schott/vanson a pass on their 80 turd patterns and focus on the handful of standout ones that 'we' like.

my hot take of the day

I don't agree with this. The point of comparison is always when it's jackets that are effectively the same thing, so say a baggy-hemmed narrow-chested take on a Perfecto vs a Perfecto.

I've spent a good amount of time at both Schott and Vanson's factories; the patterns are solid. The website photography just often pairs the wearers with the wrong sized jacket, which is its own issue.

Schott did a bunch of bizarrely long Perfecto jackets in the late 2000s low rise hipster era, which have been knocked plenty by myself and others, and have basically been retired from the catalog.

 

[jeo]

I don't like that one much altho its better zipped. has a puffy pregnant look to it.

I feel like fine creek gets unfairly hated on for some goofy patterns. schott/vanson etc all have horrendously ugly patterns too but we focus on the few we like and ignore the others.

btw I'll reiterate what I said in a diff thread...I think people roast the weird FC patterns, but give the more established makers like schott/vanson a pass on their 80 turd patterns and focus on the handful of standout ones that 'we' like.

my hot take of the day

Had to look for this.

Saying Schott and Vanson have “horrendously ugly patterns” is as wrong as saying FCL have horrible patterns.

I typically can’t fit into Vanson and Lost Worlds but I’ll never say they have bad patterns.

Everyone needs to find what works for them.

 

[Marc mndt]

but give the more established makers like schott/vanson a pass on their 80 turd patterns

I'll take the '80s turd pattern Schotts over a FC any day.

 

[jeo]

Except I don't think they do look good in them. Yes, people will add that aesthetics are subjective, but there are some general principles of tailoring, fit, etc.

I can even appreciate the 80s/90s (and now revived) oversize, drop shoulder, etc even though I don't personally find it appealing. It is at least cohesive. Likewise the 70s super slim, which I also don't personally find appealing. But the skinny chest and flared hem look just looks bad, even on those tall skinny guys, and worse on the other guys.

Again, subjective whether it looks good or not, but from a tailoring/clothing lens I would say it's unflattering.

Yes, it’s subjective. I disagree that they don’t look good on anyone. You’re making it seem like they have never looked good on anyone ever. I’ve seen ‘em look good on guys lol. Don’t care enough to look up pics of dudes looking good in FCLs. And before you say anything, I know I know….you’ll find WAY more people that look like shit in them. Like I said in my previous post, they look good on few, horrible on the rest.

 

[cbez]

I'll take the '80s turd pattern Schotts over a FC any day.

no I mean, they've both put out tons of ugly jackets I wouldn't take for free. but we focus on a few of their heritage models that happens to fit our aesthetic.

 

[Aloysius]

I’ve seen ‘em look good on guys lol. Don’t care enough to look up pics of dudes looking good in FCLs. And before you say anything, I know I know….you’ll find WAY more people that look like shit in them. Like I said in my previous post, they look good on few, horrible on the rest.

Lol no I get what you mean, don't worry.

But the problem is that they've embedded themselves in Western denim culture in a way that certain stores (including one in Fishtown I imagine we've both been to) push it as the jacket maker for everybody. While no jacket pattern is for everybody, FCL probably fits the smallest amount of people (followed by RMC and Schott Japan's previous skinny fits).

no I mean, they've both put out tons of ugly jackets I wouldn't take for free. but we focus on a few of their heritage models that happens to fit our aesthetic.

I dunno about that. Even the visually weird 70s/80s designs actually had really good patterning from a technical point of view, in terms of fit, range of movement, leather cutting, etc. The American garment industry was still in its prime and there were tons of qualified pattern makers.

A lot of modern workwear brands are sort of started by enthusiasts and don't come from the same industrial base of knowledge.

 

[jeo]

But the problem is that they've embedded themselves in Western denim culture in a way that certain stores (including one in Fishtown I imagine we've both been to) push it as the jacket maker for everybody.

Have they though?

I think like most other Japanese brands, they don’t need to sell outside of Japan.

There was Japanese hype before FCL came around. Started grass roots in forums/IG and that led to stores trying to get Japanese inventory (yes, they’ll push anything they think they can sell) Then FCL came around and their IG marketing that was never supposed to be targeted to the western market actually hit really big in the west.

According to Andrew, the Fishtown shop owner you’re referring to, they’ve always had trouble keeping up production, mostly because of the demand from outside of Japan. This came up when I asked him a few years ago when he’ll finally get the Eric model and he went into it. The whole “overseas” line is a new thing. To me that’s their first attempt at trying to accommodate the western market.

 

[Aloysius]

According to Andrew, the Fishtown shop owner you’re referring to, they’ve always had trouble keeping up production, mostly because of the demand from outside of Japan. This came up when I asked him a few years ago when he’ll finally get the Eric model and he went into it. The whole “overseas” line is a new thing. To me that’s their first attempt at trying to accommodate the western market.

To be clear, I really like and go to the shop in question even though I wouldn't buy Iron Heart or FCL, so it's less a dig at them, more an observation of the Self Edge industrial complex lol.

 

[Canuck Panda]

I think I've posted this sizing video before but here it is again, If you are looking at this jacket like I did, this video is good for sizing reference.

Four different guys wearing different sized Leons. It's obviously extremely slim with short sleeves to show off their watches and silver jewelries. I don't know how this guy squeezed into the 42, he's got a bit more length and width than me.

I don't think he can zip this jacket at all... Sizing is my biggest concern on the Leon...

There is also a few SJH on Mercari now, quite expensive for the 42, but maybe with the next 20 off coupon... This black leather does look like the one IH uses. I used up all my coins on something else and didn't get to this one...

 

[stenaloom]

What’s your height and weight? Can you show us fit pics of you in your 519?

Just beware it’s long for an M/C style jacket. Depending on your body type and style it’ll either look great or really really bad, no in between.

If you’re tall and skinny and don’t have a classic/vintage aesthetic (mostly referring to high waisted pants) to your style you’ll look great in FCL.







Patterns need to be approached with the same subjective discernment as leather.

There are as many different shaped patterns as there are different shaped humans. There’s something for everyone.

There are patterns that are great for some and horrible for others. FCL patterns are great for a few, horrible for the rest.

Is it a bad pattern because it doesn’t fit a wide variety of people? Maybe, but you have to ask who are these jackets made for?

I’m 5’4” and weigh around 135-140 lbs. A lot of Japanese men who look great in FCL jackets tend to have the same shoulder and chest measurements as mine and weigh the same as me but they’ll be like 5’8”-5’9”. That’s who these jackets are made for.



No, it looks terrible on HIM. Plenty of people have posted Schotts on this pattern block and it looks great.

Hey. I'm 5'9 and 172 pounds. Attaching a picture of me in my 519. It's size S and quite tight when the zipper is closed, but otherwise i feel very good in it.

 

[stenaloom]

What do you guys think about the Double Helix Deviant? It seems to be somewhat similar in design.