Fine Creek Leather

[Bender]

Checked out some Fine Creek stuff today. Very, very nice jackets, sure... but I don’t know that they are priced in line with what they are. The fit/finish and build quality seemed right in line with Aero/Lewis/SB et al. That is to say, certainly a top-tierish jacket, but imo, it’s tough to justify the extra $800-$900 over their peers that they command.

I will retract my earlier statements about just getting a British-made cafe racer or an American-made trucker, however. Fine Creek does it’s own takes on the fits, and if that fit works better for you (and you don’t mind the frankly egregious premium), then I think FC could be a worthy contender.

All that said, I also got a chance to check out some Ironheart jackets today (both horsehide and rough-out steer), and was much more impressed with them. While they run roughly a $200-$300 premium over the Aero/LL stuff, the fit/finish and build quality was superb. Reminded me of a pair of John Lofgren boots. Not a stitch out of place, perfectly matched panels, absolute symmetry in the cut... just superb.

 

[Martini]

Hi there, which of the two Leon Customs would you recommend for casual wear? Lightweight or heavy weight?

 

[jeo]

Hi there, which of the two Leon Customs would you recommend for casual wear? Lightweight or heavy weight?

Tricky question to answer. Many people here have heavy jackets and are perfectly fine with wearing it casually as opposed to wearing it for a purpose i.e. riding a motorcycle.

As far as I'm aware the Leon custom comes in 1.3 mm and then I'm not entirely sure how thick the lightweight version is.

Do you have other jackets in 1.3mm (or roughly 2.75 - 3 oz) horsehide? I think 1.3mm is pretty standard and most people can wear that weight casually.

 

[Martini]

I have the FCL Roberts which is, I believe 1.5 mm. I wear a RMC J-100 jacket for riding, longer in the body on my frame and just more comfortable on the bike. The Roberts is for strolling around town
I was just curious as I saw two versions exist of the Leon Custom, and 2.0 sounds heavy indeed. But maybe it ages better?

 

[jeo]

I think the heaviest the Leon Custom comes in is the 1.3 mm thick horsehide. I do not think it comes in 2 mm. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. The 2mm is the Leon the Nostar. Different model. Also fits bigger than the Leon Custom in the same size.

If you have the Roberts and it is in fact 1.5 mm, then the Leon Custom should be fine for you for casual wear.

 

[Martini]

Thanks, Jeo!

 

[Superfluous]

Checked out some Fine Creek stuff today. Very, very nice jackets, sure... The fit/finish and build quality seemed right in line with Aero/Lewis/SB et al.

Respectfully disagree. IMHO, the finish and build quality of FCL jackets are palpably better than Aero, Lewis, and SB. Better stitching and seams. Is it "worth" the premium. Thats a subjective determination that everyone must make for themselves.

Fine Creek does it’s own takes on the fits, and if that fit works better for you (and you don’t mind the frankly egregious premium), then I think FC could be a worthy contender.

FCL does indeed promote a unique fit that diverges from vintage benchmarks. I have tried on several models that did not work for me. I remain hopeful that I will find a model that fits.

All that said, I also got a chance to check out some Ironheart jackets today (both horsehide and rough-out steer), and was much more impressed with them.

IH subcontracts its HH jackets. Previously, IH HH jackets were made by AL/SB. More recently, they are made by an undisclosed manufacturer in Himeji (where much of the best Japanese HH originates, including Shinki).

 

[dudewuttheheck]

@Superfluous I know that Iron Heart's Japanese leather jackets were made by Four Speed at first, are they not still not made by them?

 

[Carlos840]

Respectfully disagree. IMHO, the finish and build quality of FCL jackets are palpably better than Aero, Lewis, and SB. Better stitching and seams. Is it "worth" the premium. Thats a subjective determination that everyone must make for themselves.

Agreed.
I don't even know how one would put Lewis in the same category as Aero and SB.
Sure, Aero and SB are on the same level, (neither brands are IMO "top-tierish"), but Lewis is definitely a step up from both...

 

[willyto]

People tend to put makers on tiers based on price but that’s not the whole story. There’s a lot more to it than pricing.

 

[handymike]

^^ Exactly!

 

[jeo]

Respectfully disagree. IMHO, the finish and build quality of FCL jackets are palpably better than Aero, Lewis, and SB. Better stitching and seams.

Agree that FCL's finish and build quality is better than Aero and SB. Disagree that they are better than LL. Having had my hands on a LL for the first time a couple years ago, I was super impressed at how nice the construction was. As good as any Japanese maker that I've seen. If it wasn't for the badge, I probably would have bought one on the spot.

Speaking of FCL seams. This happened to a guy's brand new FCL Roberts over at styleforum. Not to say that this can't happen to any maker, but I don't recall ever seeing this kind of a thing with the truly high end makers (and I don't just mean the very expensive brands).

 

[dudewuttheheck]

Yeah I'm with @jeo . I would not say FCL is on the level of other high end Japanese makers.

 

[Superfluous]

Here is a good review of the FCL Roberts -- not my favorite model, but a very comprehensive review:

http://afine-toothcomb.blogspot.com/2020/08/in-review-love-at-second-sight-fine.html

"Construction is extremely fine and clean. I've seen high quality Japanese jacket stitch-work described as 'laser precise,' and I have to say my personal experience backs this up. In fact, this jacket is among the finest stitching density I've encountered on a leather jacket to date, including every jacket I've reviewed here or handled in person. It's a little bit more consistent than my Himel and very close on the Real McCoys jacket, but I'd still give the Fine Creek jacket the slight edge in this instance."

The reviewer included this photo (FCL on left, Schott in center, Real McCoys on right):

The FCL has clean, tight stitching.

I found the following quote from the review interesting:

"A few months ago, Clutch magazine interviewed Yamazaki-san where he mentioned using seven (seven!) different types of horsehide this year, all with slightly different qualities and ageing properties. The leather is sourced and custom tanned in Himeji, Japan, the same region Shinki tannery resides."

Seven different types of HH! I know that certain of their jackets use Shinki. Apparently all of the HH, including the Shinki, is sourced from Himeji.

In OneFineToothComb a member here?

 

[dudewuttheheck]

@Superfluous keep in mind that his McCoys jacket was made in New Zealand, NOT in Japan as he clarified in his McCoy jacket review so that comparison you show is between a RMNZ, Schott, and FCL.

 

[Superfluous]

@dudewuttheheck : You plainly have an agenda here . . . feel free to ignore the reviewer's express statement: "Construction is extremely fine and clean. . . . In fact, this jacket is among the finest stitching density I've encountered on a leather jacket to date, including every jacket I've reviewed here or handled in person." I have owned several Real McCoy jackets (all made in Japan) and handled several FCL jackets. IMHO, they are similar in quality. You disagree, as is your prerogative. Then again, you also believe that Aero jackets are better than The Flat Head, Thedi, Rainbow Country, Eastman, and Tenjin (https://almostvintagestyle.com/2018/09/28/the-top-ten-leather-jacket-brands-list/). Lets agree to disagree and leave it at that. Meanwhile, I will continue my pursuit of a FCL jacket.

 

[jeo]

My comment was more an endorsement of Lewis Leathers than a criticism of Fine Creek Leathers.

From the jackets that I've had in my hand, both LL's and FCL's construction were just as nice as any Japanese maker that I've seen.

That photo is not a good example of what good construction is. All it is showing is that FCL has a tight stitch count, which makes it look clean.

It's very tight stitching and the stitch line itself is straight so it looks "clean", but if you look closely, the distance between the stitch to the end of the seam is greater on the bottom than it is on top.

The McCoy, while having a slightly less dense stitch count, is actually more neatly constructed in this photo.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

@dudewuttheheck : You plainly have an agenda here . . . feel free to ignore the reviewer's express statement: "Construction is extremely fine and clean. . . . In fact, this jacket is among the finest stitching density I've encountered on a leather jacket to date, including every jacket I've reviewed here or handled in person." I have owned several Real McCoy jackets (all made in Japan) and handled several FCL jackets. IMHO, they are similar in quality. You disagree, as is your prerogative. Then again, you also believe that Aero jackets are better than The Flat Head, Thedi, Rainbow Country, Eastman, and Tenjin (https://almostvintagestyle.com/2018/09/28/the-top-ten-leather-jacket-brands-list/). Lets agree to disagree and leave it at that. Meanwhile, I will continue my pursuit of a FCL jacket.

I'm not telling you not to get the jacket. I was just making a clarification. Am I not allowed to share my opinion?

Also, that list is not entirely based off of quality. You will note in the article that I said that the list would be different if it were only based on quality. I took sizing and customization into account with that list. Though I will agree that Aero needs to go down on that list. I've already made adjustments to this list over time. That's another change I need to make.

I'm not saying FCL's stitching doesn't look extremely clean overall.

Also, to clarify, my McCoys jackets are not on the same level as my FW jackets so even "Japanese jackets" is not apples to apples.

You clearly are either being disingenuous with your inclusion of my article or ignorant of what I actually wrote content-wise in that article. Either way I do not appreciate that at all. I'm surprised you took this further. I wasn't even trying to argue much with you.

My point of the RMNZ thing was just to clarify. It wasn't meant as a gotcha moment or anything like that.

Last I checked, not liking something was not the same as having an agenda. I don't go around arguing when people say that Lost Worlds can make jackets as good as the best Japanese jackets. I have handled Fine Creek jackets in person and was not super impressed. That's all. I'm sure there's a chance that they're probably a bit better than my impressions were and I will check them out again as soon as I can to get some more impressions of their jackets. I'm not just completely writing them off forever.

 

[navetsea]

the tension on that FCL is digging too much, no wonder with a tight StyleForum fit and high stitch counts it rips open like cinema ticket on that armpit. formal shoes is stitched with such machine, but nowhere in that tension until the thread burrows like that.

 

[Entropic Thunder]

Here is a good review of the FCL Roberts -- not my favorite model, but a very comprehensive review:

http://afine-toothcomb.blogspot.com/2020/08/in-review-love-at-second-sight-fine.html

"Construction is extremely fine and clean. I've seen high quality Japanese jacket stitch-work described as 'laser precise,' and I have to say my personal experience backs this up. In fact, this jacket is among the finest stitching density I've encountered on a leather jacket to date, including every jacket I've reviewed here or handled in person. It's a little bit more consistent than my Himel and very close on the Real McCoys jacket, but I'd still give the Fine Creek jacket the slight edge in this instance."

The reviewer included this photo (FCL on left, Schott in center, Real McCoys on right):

The FCL has clean, tight stitching.

I found the following quote from the review interesting:

"A few months ago, Clutch magazine interviewed Yamazaki-san where he mentioned using seven (seven!) different types of horsehide this year, all with slightly different qualities and ageing properties. The leather is sourced and custom tanned in Himeji, Japan, the same region Shinki tannery resides."

Seven different types of HH! I know that certain of their jackets use Shinki. Apparently all of the HH, including the Shinki, is sourced from Himeji.

In OneFineToothComb a member here?

Yes he actually is a member here, and sold his beautiful thrifted Himel Kensington here on these boards as well as another item he has up for sale right now. His handle is d4nimal. I’m definitely a fan of his blog.
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/members/d4nimal.40601/

With regard to fine creek I’m not impressed. As dudewhattheheck stated that RM is the older New Zealand varietal and the stitching still looks cleaner than FCL in the image as jeo pointed out. Higher stitch density yield diminishing returns, eventually just compromising the integrity of the leather by punching thousands of unnecessary holes in the leather. And as Navetsea said the tension also looks way too high, one can barely make out the actual thread, combined w high stitch density - a very iffy combination.