Finds and Deals - Leather Jacket Edition

[Wildhorses]

Expensive, and very short Leatherman
Leather Man. vintage leather MC jacket “L” | eBay

 

[Coriu]

From what I have read here, the quality of Grais jackets varies widely.

tmitchell has commented before about this variability. From what I understand, Ruben Grais, a Russian immigrant and shoemaker, sewed the leather jackets while his nephew made the varsity jackets. He certainly had the capability of making a fine leather jacket. Whether he did or not is up for debate.

Based upon what I have seen, Grais made a wide variety of pieces to appeal to different customers. If I remember correctly, their jackets were very popular amongst young people in the Midwest at one time. So, I am guessing they made some lower price point jackets to appeal to the kids.

I believe Ruben Grais had a contract to make jackets for the Chicago PD. So, he definitely had a source for decent horsehide and knew how to work it. My guess is that non law enforcement hh jackets like this would be amongst their better pieces, but it's just a guess.

 

[Wildhorses]

Wow. I absolutely need to have this one. Can anyone tell me what would be a fair price (range) for this jacket? (to prevent me from overpaying)

Did you see the tag says "Front quarter steerhide", not horse

 

[tmitchell59]

tmitchell has commented before about this variability.

Yes I have commented. They made many, many leather jackets for many years. Probably made jackets for other branding too. I just take each Grais on a jacket by jacket. Seen plenty I would want seen plenty I would not. Thats just me.

I do like the jacket posted, looks to be late 40s. Condition looks good, maybe a size 42.

has the highwayman vibe. looks to be going into the $200+ range with the current bidding.

 

[Claybertrand]

Taubers, small size in Germany
Vintage TAUBERS of California Heavy Horsehide Leather Jacket perfecto biker S/M | eBay

Is this @Robbie79 's listing????? How are all the Taubers ending up in Deutschland????!!!!

 

[Claybertrand]

Wow. I absolutely need to have this one. Can anyone tell me what would be a fair price (range) for this jacket? (to prevent me from overpaying)

Cool Jacket for sure. For all of you bidding, mild warning on those wrinkles/creases. If it was my size, they wouldn't dissuade me from bidding but just keep them in mind when considering how high you'll go. From the looks of them they are fixable. But some may be on the border...... It'll be interesting to see where this one ends up.

 

[Claybertrand]

Did you see the tag says "Front quarter steerhide", not horse

My understanding is with Steerhide, it is all usable for a jacket. Whereas Horsehide -- only the front quarter is suitable for jackets. The rest is better for boots etc. Curious to see FRONT QUARTER STEERHIDE for this reason.....

Correct me if I am wrong on the hide usability. I don't think I have ever noticed this before on a label.

 

[Marc mndt]

Cool Jacket for sure. For all of you bidding, mild warning on those wrinkles/creases. If it was my size, they wouldn't dissuade me from bidding but just keep them in mind when considering how high you'll go. From the looks of them they are fixable. But some may be on the border...... It'll be interesting to see where this one ends up.

You're right. At first glance I though it was grain but they're actually wrinkles and there's a lot of them...

 

[Wildhorses]

My understanding is with Steerhide, it is all usable for a jacket. Whereas Horsehide -- only the front quarter is suitable for jackets. The rest is better for boots etc. Curious to see FRONT QUARTER STEERHIDE for this reason.....

Correct me if I am wrong on the hide usability. I don't think I have ever noticed this before on a label.

Front quarter of the horse is the best for the hide quality to make a jacket, but the rest of the horse is usable, not as interesting in term of thickness I think. The rear (crup) of the horse contains the shell, and is only used for shoes, wallets, belts, etc... The whole crup part with leather containing the shell is called horsebutt, only for shoes.
Almost indestructible, but impossible to use for a jacket, these parts are too small, and would anyway be unwearable.
And yes, that's the firts time I read "front quarter steerhide".

 

[Claybertrand]

Front quarter of the horse is the best for the hide quality to make a jacket, but the rest of the horse is usable, not as interesting in term of thickness I think. The rear (crup) of the horse contains the shell, and is only used for shoes, wallets, belts, etc... The whole crup part with leather containing the shell is called horsebutt, only for shoes.
Almost indestructible, but impossible to use for a jacket, these parts are too small, and would anyway be unwearable.
And yes, that's the firts time I read "front quarter steerhide".

This is very much in line with my understanding as to the usability of Horsehide. Thanks for expanding on this topic.

 

[TSW]

Cool Apparel Annex. https://www.ebay.com/itm/194612048132?hash=item2d4fc83104:g:qj8AAOSwMQVhtsx1&shqty=1&isGTR=1#shId

 

[yellowfever]

An other padded one, small size
BLACK LEATHER MOTO JACKET | eBay

Certainly not as Langlitz as seller claims (stitching on belt line wrong). He also claims “ This Motorcycle Jacket was custom made at a small shop in Greenwich Village and purchased around 1988“ which may be plausible - (nylon?) YKK main zip would support that timing (unless it’s a replacement). And small collar design too plus padding, although present on various jackets for many years, was all the rage in the 1980’s. And fairly pristine condition suggests it’s not a super old jacket…

There are many cal experts here (I am not one), but I’m not totally convinced by claims it is an unlabelled cal… it does look very cal-like, but could be one of the various lookalike cal jackets made by others… in favour stitch lines from top of side pockets to centre are present, kidney panel looks stiff, 3 grommet side laces, belt stitch line spacing is like cal. Against main zip, no mention of fur lined cuffs people always mention as - supposedly definitive (!) - proof of cal provenance, claimed Greenwich shop provenance… unlabelled (granted cal jackets are often unlabelled, but my non expert understanding was that was that was for police jackets, which this isn’t - no badge holder is present, no belt loops)

Anyway it’s looks in great shape and the leather looks nice. But that main zip is pretty ugly/doesn’t fit well with rest of the retro jacket design to my eye… and price is not bad, but not really a bargain either…

 

[sweetfights]

I think a lot of what is being said regarding Vintage vs. Reproduction and the notion that Vintage prices are dropping pertains more specifically to the highest or at least the highER end of vintage. Yes when you are up in the $1200-$2000 range of jackets, there is substantially more risk buying a 70 year old piece off of a few pictures from a website than buying a repro. But Vintage jackets in this price range are edging into Collector territory not necessarily the realm of buy to wear often (or ever for that matter).

A $1200 Lost Worlds jacket has more of a quality value component and less of a collector component IMO. I mean to say that the prices paid for a LW vs. a Buco for example are perhaps being paid for different reasons and therefore sort of Apples and Oranges to compare the two. If you have a person asking how to best spend their $1200-$2000, you would want to know what their motivation is to answer that question for them. Obviously, Collectors are the minority so most people would probably say they want a quality jacket they can wear. But whether the jacket holds value or goes up in price is a different factor to consider. Some people (probably MOST) don't have an eye on future value when they buy things. Personally, future value is not a motivating factor for me when I buy old jackets. At the same time, I do know that what I'm buying is not made anymore and isn't found in abundance but I don't necessarily see it in monetary terms. I am not investing in leather jacket futures here.

I think that there will always be value in old things that are not made anymore. The fact that the Millennial Masses would rather wear Faux Leather Hoodies or whatever is looking at it upside down to a degree. Its not what the masses will pay for things. Rather it IS what the Niche market will pay. One marketing philosophy is that the devout few will be more passionate about their niche than the masses will be about mainstream products. I am not speaking of how this translates to profitability. My point is that in general, people who are hyper enthusiasts will still pay for special things regardless of how desirable these things may not be to the masses.

Like everything else, it comes down to your personal reasons for paying this money for these jackets and how you personally value them. I don't think any of us has any illusions that we are somehow cornering the market on old leather garments and setting the stage for a financial windfall later in life.

For me, buying a Lost Worlds jacket for $1200 is not a hobby---and there's nothing wrong with it not being a hobby because that's not the point of buying the LW. Trying to hunt down old Bucos, Monarchs, Hercules, Californians, Sportclads, Guidemasters, Block, Ralph Pugh, Rich Sher, etc. that might actually fit that you rarely see is a challenge you may never be able to succeed at and this makes it more of a hobby in my mind. Conversely, hoping to somehow find a grail jacket that is 70 years old that is in decent shape and fits well AND is in excellent condition is not the absolute that buying the $1200 LW is. With the LW, nothing is left to chance---But then CHANCE is not the goal for the LW buyer. You are buying something that you want and that will fit a need for you and the certainty of those things along with the known quality is behind the motivation of that buyer---hence the dichotomy --- the Hobbyist/Collector vs. the SANE person who just wants a Cool well made jacket and has the funds for it.

Really interesting dialogue on this topic. I think great points have been made by others I just think we may be talking about two different things to a degree.

Good post!

I had a thought- what if Stu died tomorrow? No more Lost World jackets. How tight would owners hold onto their LW jackets then?

 

[Davisleathernyc]

Certainly not as Langlitz as seller claims (stitching on belt line wrong). He also claims “ This Motorcycle Jacket was custom made at a small shop in Greenwich Village and purchased around 1988“ which may be plausible - (nylon?) YKK main zip would support that timing (unless it’s a replacement). And small collar design too plus padding, although present on various jackets for many years, was all the rage in the 1980’s. And fairly pristine condition suggests it’s not a super old jacket…

There are many cal experts here (I am not one), but I’m not totally convinced by claims it is an unlabelled cal… it does look very cal-like, but could be one of the various lookalike cal jackets made by others… in favour stitch lines from top of side pockets to centre are present, kidney panel looks stiff, 3 grommet side laces, belt stitch line spacing is like cal. Against main zip, no mention of fur lined cuffs people always mention as - supposedly definitive (!) - proof of cal provenance, claimed Greenwich shop provenance… unlabelled (granted cal jackets are often unlabelled, but my non expert understanding was that was that was for police jackets, which this isn’t - no badge holder is present, no belt loops)

Anyway it’s looks in great shape and the leather looks nice. But that main zip is pretty ugly/doesn’t fit well with rest of the retro jacket design to my eye… and price is not bad, but not really a bargain either…

yeah it's a cal and most likely of gay leather origin.Very sexy but the shipping price is atrocious.

 

[JMax]

Good post!

I had a thought- what if Stu died tomorrow? No more Lost World jackets. How tight would owners hold onto their LW jackets then?

Kung fu grip’em. But then again, Stuarlos is the next CEO and all should be well.

 

[photo2u]

Defnintely a Find----Maybe a deal since I haven't seen one like this. Unique Pocket Pattern......

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313789736050?hash=item490f536472:g:N0sAAOSwZDJhqmH6&LH_ItemCondition=10|3000

Looks like a buco from early sixties.

 

[Carlos840]

My understanding is with Steerhide, it is all usable for a jacket. Whereas Horsehide -- only the front quarter is suitable for jackets. The rest is better for boots etc. Curious to see FRONT QUARTER STEERHIDE for this reason.....

Correct me if I am wrong on the hide usability. I don't think I have ever noticed this before on a label.

LW uses horse butt in their jackets, that's how you get grain like this:

 

[Imuricecreamman]

LW uses horse butt in their jackets, that's how you get grain like this:

Too many spicy vindaloos

 

[Coriu]

Alexander Leather Goatskin Explorer 24" P2P nearly new $495 OBO
https://www.ebay.com/itm/124461496139?hash=item1cfa7bb74b:g:5OIAAOSw4g5fwZjD

 

[sweetfights]

I think a lot of what is being said regarding Vintage vs. Reproduction and the notion that Vintage prices are dropping pertains more specifically to the highest or at least the highER end of vintage. Yes when you are up in the $1200-$2000 range of jackets, there is substantially more risk buying a 70 year old piece off of a few pictures from a website than buying a repro. But Vintage jackets in this price range are edging into Collector territory not necessarily the realm of buy to wear often (or ever for that matter).

A $1200 Lost Worlds jacket has more of a quality value component and less of a collector component IMO. I mean to say that the prices paid for a LW vs. a Buco for example are perhaps being paid for different reasons and therefore sort of Apples and Oranges to compare the two. If you have a person asking how to best spend their $1200-$2000, you would want to know what their motivation is to answer that question for them. Obviously, Collectors are the minority so most people would probably say they want a quality jacket they can wear. But whether the jacket holds value or goes up in price is a different factor to consider. Some people (probably MOST) don't have an eye on future value when they buy things. Personally, future value is not a motivating factor for me when I buy old jackets. At the same time, I do know that what I'm buying is not made anymore and isn't found in abundance but I don't necessarily see it in monetary terms. I am not investing in leather jacket futures here.

I think that there will always be value in old things that are not made anymore. The fact that the Millennial Masses would rather wear Faux Leather Hoodies or whatever is looking at it upside down to a degree. Its not what the masses will pay for things. Rather it IS what the Niche market will pay. One marketing philosophy is that the devout few will be more passionate about their niche than the masses will be about mainstream products. I am not speaking of how this translates to profitability. My point is that in general, people who are hyper enthusiasts will still pay for special things regardless of how desirable these things may not be to the masses.

Like everything else, it comes down to your personal reasons for paying this money for these jackets and how you personally value them. I don't think any of us has any illusions that we are somehow cornering the market on old leather garments and setting the stage for a financial windfall later in life.

For me, buying a Lost Worlds jacket for $1200 is not a hobby---and there's nothing wrong with it not being a hobby because that's not the point of buying the LW. Trying to hunt down old Bucos, Monarchs, Hercules, Californians, Sportclads, Guidemasters, Block, Ralph Pugh, Rich Sher, etc. that might actually fit that you rarely see is a challenge you may never be able to succeed at and this makes it more of a hobby in my mind. Conversely, hoping to somehow find a grail jacket that is 70 years old that is in decent shape and fits well AND is in excellent condition is not the absolute that buying the $1200 LW is. With the LW, nothing is left to chance---But then CHANCE is not the goal for the LW buyer. You are buying something that you want and that will fit a need for you and the certainty of those things along with the known quality is behind the motivation of that buyer---hence the dichotomy --- the Hobbyist/Collector vs. the SANE person who just wants a Cool well made jacket and has the funds for it.

Really interesting dialogue on this topic. I think great points have been made by others I just think we may be talking about two different things to a degree.

Good post!

I had a thought- what if Stu died tomorrow? No more Lost World jackets. How tight would owners hold onto their LW jackets then?

LW uses horse butt in their jackets, that's how you get grain like this:

That is very interesting. Is this how LW’s obtains such durability?